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Pat
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Closer Cougar Confirmation
08/07/06 07:41 AM
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Yesterday I found out that the lady I did the bars for thought she saw a coyote in the front yard of my mom's house but on getting a better look it was a cougar. She had her camera with her and got out and got a snapshot. She said it stopped and looked back at her. It was a digital camera and she promised me a copy. If I can enlarge it and have the cat recognizable I will post it. This would have put the cat within about 500 ft of a state highway. and less than 200 ft from my mom's front porch in the middle of the day. The cat wasn't startled or running just walking along, noticed the comotion of someone getting a camera and pointing it out and turned to look at the folks making the fuss and got it self imortallized in a snapshot. Sure hope the cat stands out in the picture enough to be recognized.
 Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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jimbrown
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Re: Closer Cougar Confirmation
[re: Pat]
08/07/06 02:40 PM
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Wow I have never seen one in Ok or north of Houston. Used to see them in south Texas. I have seen two at a time here on my place and probably one of the two again at different times. Here they are mainly after deer and might take a calf if they wre really hungry.
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Pat
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Re: Closer Cougar Confirmation
[re: jimbrown]
08/08/06 10:22 AM
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Jim, One of the favorite camping and hiking locations near San Diego of my wife and I was the trail where the lady jogger was eaten a few years ago. One of our coworkers was in a Mexican standoff with a cougar for a few hours one afternoon near there. He was mountain biking when the cat took an unhealthy interest in him. He got off the bike and kept it between him and the cat. Every time the cat seemed to lose interest he would try to slowly back away but the cat would come back at him again. After a few hours he was able to back away out of the cat's sight, mount the bike, and set a new personal downhill speed record exiting the area.
Ordinarily a cougar in good health in the presence of sufficient game isn't too dangerous for an adult human but if they are sick or not fully physically fit such that they can handle their needs, then there are people who are way easier to catch and eat, especially small humans.
As I did not witness the one in our backyard or the latest incursion I can't know if it was the same animal or if we have two. I don't know why the cat would come into a field with little cover between a house and the highway, within a hundrred yards or so of the state highway in the middle of the day.
After our backyard sighting AND the fierce growling that scared my wife, I have encouraged her to put her pistol in her pocket when she goes out to fill the bird feeders or wander around in the back yard. Better safe than lunch! I hope a few .357 rounds in the face even if she misses (not unlikely) would be a decent deterrent.
I don't think I could pursuade her to routinely take my "street sweeper" 12 ga magnum with pistol grip and extended tube feed and pump action. (Mossberg) Although it has a comfortqable padded sling, it is still a bit more than she wants to pack. We'll see how it goes the first time she sees one a bit closer. She was within about 75-100 ft of one in Baja when we were packing in the mountains and were only armed with knives and fishing rods.
The locals tend to call a cougar showing the black color phase a panther (black panther, no relation to Huey Newton) Percentage wise there is a small but not vanishing percentage of cougars that are mostly black instead of "fawn" colored. I think the percent of black ones may be a bit higher around here as there seems to be a fair number of sightings. I haven't confirmed this with any authority.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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twstanley
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Re: Closer Cougar Confirmation
[re: Pat]
08/09/06 10:03 AM
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Or maybe they just blend in less or look less like a coyote from a distance when they are in their darker phase....a black animal stands out in brown parched pasture/woodline more than a tan/brown one obviously.
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Pat
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Re: Closer Cougar Confirmation
[re: twstanley]
08/09/06 10:20 PM
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TWstanley, Could be, I have never personally seen any other than the standard issue fawn colored ones except on TV or in a zoo.
I'd be happier to not see them so close to the house when I know there are oodles of deer to eat and the deer are not usually so close to the house so that isn't the attraction. That makes me suspiciouis that the animal may have difficulty hunting regular game or at least the plentiful deer and that is often a precursor to attacks on humans.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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twstanley
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Re: Closer Cougar Confirmation
[re: Pat]
08/11/06 10:12 AM
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Pat, you are one up on me, I have never seen one at all.
I agree with you on the 'patrol' patterns though, if a normally reclusive creature starts being seen regularly close to humans and homes, something has changed and you certainly need to pay attention to it.
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Pat
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Re: Closer Cougar Confirmation
[re: twstanley]
08/11/06 01:56 PM
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TWSTANLEY, My wife offered an alternative explanation. We have a row of 9 large pear trees with good fruit on them right now just to the one side of the yard where the cougar was. Deer come up at night to feed on downed pears and sometimes stand up and eat out of the trees. They don't do this in the daylight but maybe the cat was checking out the lay of the land and planing a strategy, intending to come back when the deer were there. Just an idea, not impossible but not confirmed either.
In cases where someone's safety is at stake, I prefer to err on the side of caution. I'm not satisfied to think there is NO DANGER just because no one near here has been eaten lately.
The lady who took the snap shot just moved into a different house and doesn't have her computer set up yet so the pix are not available yet. I will post the pix if the cat is identifiable in her snapshot, when I get hold of it.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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EddieWalker
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Re: Closer Cougar Confirmation
[re: Pat]
08/19/06 11:02 AM
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Pat,
Did you get the picture?
I've only seen one Lion in the wild. It was while backpacking along the Sierra Crest Trail in California. There were a dozen deer on the side of a hill that my buddy and I were watching, then they just disapeared. A minute later the Lion came out and walked along the side of the hill. This was early afternoon in late summer.
He was extremly fluid and smooth. It wasl like a snake, but larger and covered with fur. The tail is what really caught our attention. It just looked too long for it's body and seemed to slither along after it.
It was about 200 yards away and we had our binoculars out already from watching the deer.
Eddie
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Pat
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Re: Closer Cougar Confirmation
[re: EddieWalker]
08/19/06 11:17 AM
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Eddie, I didn't get the picture yet. Last time I checked the lady had not gotten her computer set up and running since moving (again.) I know she is busy with 6 new horses, one daughter and few months old baybe staying with her, and another daughter who lives about 50 miles away just having a baby last week.
I just called and got no answer so I will try again tonight or tomorrow.
I am interested in getting my hands on the digital file so I can crop/enlarge/enhance or whatever to try to optimize the recognizabililty of the cat, if required. Who knows, maybe her snapshot wont be a hand held blur that is unrecognizable.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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Pat
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I have talked with the lady who snapped the cougar in the front yard of my mom's house. As she was in the process of moving she has had difficulty finding the CD or the print (packed with the CD.)
It seems the snapshot was made with a disposable, not her good digital camera, but she says the cat can be identified when the shot is enlarged on the computer. Meanwhile a friend of hers had a close sighting of a cougar at his cabin and she forwarded the JPG to me. This is the picture posted here, NOT the one on my property.
I'm posting the cabin-porch-through-the-window picture as a stop gap measure while treading water and holding my breath to get my hands on the CD that the photofinisher put the pix on from her disposable.
If you look closely and squint just right you can convince yourself that it might be a cougar. Hee Hee!!!
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
Edited by Pat (08/30/06 08:24 AM)
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twstanley
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Re: Closer Cougar Confirmation
[re: Pat]
08/30/06 09:43 AM
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Well there isn't any doubt in my mind, it's a bit big for a bobcat.
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egon
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Re: Closer Cougar Confirmation
[re: Pat]
08/30/06 11:09 AM
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Looks just about the same as our old Tomcat meowlling for supper! 
Egon
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CowboyUp
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Re: Closer Cougar Confirmation
[re: Pat]
08/30/06 11:16 AM
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And she was how far away? Yikes.
I'll add my only cougar story and try to keep it short. I was driving down the highway just outside of town, passing by my friend's farm, and I saw a cougar cross the road in front of me, early in the morning around sun-up. The long tail convinced me what it was, and I noticed it's stomach dragging.
I asked my friend if he had any livestock harmed or saw any cougar prints on his place. He said no, but then told me a few minutes later that one of his calves had its head ripped off. Don't know if he meant figuratively or literally.
I was fishing at his pond a couple of weeks later, and I heard some crying coming from the creek bed. I started walking over to investigate, got about half way there, and realized that cougar probably had kittens down there. Needless to say, I didn't walk down to the creek. I reported to the game commission, they asked for sightings to be reported, but as far as I know, no one investigated. I guess the cougar took her young and headed back to more wide open spaces away from town.
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egon
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Re: Closer Cougar Confirmation
[re: CowboyUp]
08/30/06 12:08 PM
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Our Old Tomcat also has a stomach that drags the ground and is forever empty.
Egon
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Pat
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Re: Closer Cougar Confirmation
[re: twstanley]
08/30/06 01:27 PM
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Tim, Just a couple days ago another California transplant who moved to OK 3 years ago to run a few cattle and dabble in real estate part time was at the house and I mentioned the increase in close encounters of the puma variety and he started in treating me like a small child who believed in fairies. He was chuckling as he told me his disbelief of the veracity of stories he had heard of black panthers. I patiently explained to him that the black panther was just a dark varient of the puma and was the same animal. The black coat is not genetically dominant but shows up every once in a while, not really rare. I didn't have this picture till the next day and when I mentioned the current unavailablity of the front yard picture he just knowingly smiled like a UFO unbeliever just barely remaining civil with a true believer who was busy constructing a landing pad for UFOs.
I have several folks who will GET to see the front yard picture (It will be hard but I will try to not rub their noses in it.) and I'm thinking of buying one of those IR motion tripped cameras to move around to various locations to see what is wandering about, especially at night or when no one is interfering.
I would have needed a very fast shutter or image stabilization to take the front porch shot and not show evidence of my hands shaking. Even with the out of focus "dirt" on the glass, I can see the business end of the critter too well to only have thin glass between us, especially since kitty doesn't seem to be real happy.
Meanwhile some frineds about 3-4 miles SW of me saw a smaller cat cross the road in front of them on their section line. They described it and it sounded line an ocelot to me. We got out oiur books and showed them color plates of every cat, adult or juvenile, that was in the right size range. Best fit was an ocelot. Normal range (as published in our books) is south Texas but seeing is believing. There are a lot more exotic pets (cats are favorites) than you might realize and they sometimes "escape" or are set "free" when they get to be to much trouble or outgrow the cute kitten stage.
A very sober and reliable couple reported a sighting of a young African lion attacking a cow. What other cat is close to the right size and has the tuft on the tail. It had little or no mane hence the surmise of its youth. Females don't have as prominent a tuft on the tip of the tail.
Anyway, I will be much pleased to get a copy of the front yard cougar to show some doubting Thomases. The lady who snapped the shot had her grown daughter staning beside her for backup and the yard can be ID'd in the snap, she says.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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Pat
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Re: Closer Cougar Confirmation
[re: egon]
08/30/06 01:29 PM
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Egon, Too bad you weren't there to represent the hairy chested woodsman types and go out and pet it to make a more interesting picture and give better size reference.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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Pat
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Re: Closer Cougar Confirmation
[re: CowboyUp]
08/30/06 01:43 PM
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Cowboy, Smart move. Discretion IS the better part of valor. Messing with her kittens could get you a lot more excitement than you might want.
I don't know the exact distance but the front porch picture was taken pretty close to the window, hence the out of focus spots illuminated by the flash (most certainly dirt spots/debris on the window (if the spots had comet tails I'd vote for flying insects.) If the camera position were several feet back in the cabin then the spots would have been in better focus. Most flash cameras with automatic exposure control open the lense to a fairly open f-stop so depth of field suffers if there is anything in the shot very far from the central focus (cat's head.)
My wife reported to me the scariest most ferocious growling she had ever experienced in her life. It went on intermittently for several minutes. It seemed to come from behind the dam of one of the ponds in our back yard. I asked why she didn't ID the source and was informed that as great a curiosity as she has she didn't have enough curiosity and or death wish to want to go take a look. She said it made the hair on the back of her neck prickly when it started. She was in the back yard filling bird feeders at the time. For a few days thereafter she put her pistol in her pocket when going out in the back yard. That wore off in a few days but after the front yard sighting in the middle of the day that close to an occupied house all that changed. She is pretty religious NOW about packing heat when out in the back yard. Better a .357 mag in the pocket than being empty handed should the cat show an interest. Her little Lady Smith Airlight hardly weighs anything and is quite snub nosed. There is a lot of muzzle flash as lots of powder is still burning when the bullet exits the muzzle. If you don't hit the cat, the flame thrower action at close quarters would blind it.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
Edited by Pat (08/30/06 01:50 PM)
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egon
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Re: Closer Cougar Confirmation
[re: Pat]
08/31/06 05:12 AM
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Truth be know Pat I'm of the rather timid type and prefer to look from afar allowing others to express testeronical side.
Egon
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Pat
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Re: Closer Cougar Confirmation
[re: egon]
08/31/06 03:28 PM
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Egon, Let there be no misunderstanding... I have done pretty foolish things, some involving beasts of various ilk but I would NOT have been comfortable taking that picture. That close to those jaws would require more than single glazed cabin windows to reduce my pucker factor.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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Blackfoot
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Re: Closer Cougar Confirmation
[re: Pat]
04/10/07 12:08 PM
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Cougars n more cougars. Out here in north central washington, where the city people are moving to the country, building there multi million dollar homes on ridge tops or stacking them as close to each other as they can get, helped vote cougar hunting with dogs out, now we have a lot of the big cats that have no respect for us people. I have had courars kill deer with in 25 ft of the cabin, there have been several problems with cougars stalking people, and killing livestock. Preditors need to be controled same as deer and other wildlife, hence the only way to really hunt cougar is with hound dogs. In the winter time is where you will see just how close the cats get to you, without you knowing that they are there. There are alot of us that have to have the concealed weapons permits for the reason that we always have to be packing a caliber that will ruin dinner for the big cat. I guess my main point here is if you see a cat in your area, he's been there all along, and he just didn't care that day who seen him.
I like the 44 mag, I know it is a bit heavy but with a good fitting shoulder holster,you get to where you really don't notice it. MY wife likes her 357. Which you can get snake shot for either one of them, which of course we do. As no one has stop us from shooting the occasional snake that crawls across the porch,,yet. Also we do practice the three S's here. Blackfoot
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Re: Closer Cougar Confirmation
[re: Blackfoot]
04/10/07 12:43 PM
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Wait till the cats and dogs start dissapearing or even worse a small child has an encounter. Then perhaps things will change.
Egon
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Pat
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Re: Closer Cougar Confirmation
[re: Blackfoot]
04/10/07 08:53 PM
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I used to handload some shot shells for the .357 maggie. I put in some red dot (If I recall correctly) then a .30 cal gas check (like a wad) then dip the case in # 7 1/2 or #6 shot to fill it up and set another gas check on top. First gas check goes in concave up toward the outside away from primer. Second gas check goes concave down. Crimp very lightly.
Fired from a few feet away it patterns pretty well and the dang gas checks can penetrate a 3/4 inch board depending on how they hit, flat or edge on (the gas checks fly at random and not accurate very far away.)
These would either blind or discourage a puma very much and not require great marksmanship. You can be the best target shooter in the world and not hit a moving target in a tense situation. I used to load the first two cylinders with these and then my regular "war shots." They do snakes too. Regular store bought pistol sized shot shells are a bit fine in the shot size, doesn't carry but a few feet with any punch.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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Re: Closer Cougar Confirmation
[re: Pat]
04/10/07 11:28 PM
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To close for comfort. I know what you mean about not having all the time in the world to get a good rest, but we won't go there becuz it has something to do with the three S's. My granfather and I did alot of loading when I was very young, bout 38 years ago. And he used some heavy shot, I don't remember just what all that he did, but he always said, one could shoot something in the dark with it and it would still be there in the morning. So I am sure it had a good belt to it. We have alot of timber rattlers here, and they don't get as big as the dimondbacks, but we have killed a few that were over 6 ft. Where I live we have plenty to go around, one year I killed 76 right around the yard, 4 of them in the house. I learned not to leave the door open. As far as cougars go we have way to many here now, I hate to say this, but I think it will take a couple of pole pushers getting killed or malled real bad before things will get back to normal with the cougar situation. The squeaky wheel gets the grease, and spandex looks a lot like a retarded mouse.,,,,,,,
I don't have anything againest cross country skiing, I have done it myself,but back then, we didn't have all them groomed trails, we skied to check trap lines or hunt coyotes, or just to get to where we were going. And we never worried about cats, but now, can you imagine trying to out run a cat in skies?
In California they outlawed hunting cougars, and now they are getting to have to many cats also. You hear about it quite often, some one gets scratched up, and than some. The last year that we could hunt cougar here with dogs was 8 or 9 years or so. I had a cougar kill a big 4 point buck in my back yard, so I called a friend of mine who had hound dogs, we ran 6 cats that day in an area of 60 acres, most of it strait up an down. We shot one. I have had cats stay in my out buildings in the winter time. One time I had 4 mules in a corral, a corgar jumped on the back of the bigest one, and raked him from the withers clear down his hine quarters, never even cut the skin but you could see the claw marks real well. The next night the dogs were raiseing cane so I went down to the corrals and there was a cat, and he circled most of the night making that sound they make, that was back in 01. So the point here is,, you will not be seeing me in spandex or pushing any poles on them long boards,,,,,,,,,Blackfoot
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Pat
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Re: Closer Cougar Confirmation
[re: Blackfoot]
04/11/07 07:52 AM
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One of the guys who worked were my wife and I worked had a multi-hour standoff with a cougar. Every time he tried to get on his mountain bike the cougar took renewed interest and he'd have to dismount to hold the bike between him and the cat. Eventually the cat gave up and wandered off. The guy probably set a new land speed record coming down out off the mountain on a fire break road.
One of our favorite hiking trails out west was the site of a lady jogger getting eaten. I've no interest in hiking there again as it is in the People's Republic of California where carrying a gun for self protection is not allowed for regular citizens.
My wife carries a .357 maggie in her pocket when she goes out in the back yard by herself to fill the bird feeders. She has filmed juvenile cougars in the back yard and an adult crossing the pond dam in the back yard.
We have no particular personal interest in hunting cats but if the cat hunts us or comes in our space when we have the means at hand to cancel its ticket, then bye bye cat. Same story with venomous reptiles. We don't go hunting them but if the snake and I happen to be at the same place at the same time then bye bye snake. Non venomous varieties are not harmed.
Pat
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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