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andrewy
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Massacre!!!
07/26/06 09:30 PM
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Hello all, this is my first post to the group. Horrible things happened yesterday! When I went to lock up my flock (mixed breeds, 10 hens, 3 roos) last night, I found only 4 of the birds in the coop! After walking my property, I came across a small pile of feathers. This morning while roaming the surrounding woods, I came across more feathers from different birds in little piles , one dead but totally intact Brahma, and one buff orpington in little pieces (pretty much the only thing intact was the gizzard and one wing). One bird did return this morning, I assume in the panic, birds ran/flew in every direction trying to flee, so that leaves 8 birds missing/dead in this attack. This is the first predation we've had since getting these chickens (our first batch ever). Any idea what sort of predator might do this level of carnage? We were thinking either a pack of wild dogs, or coyotes. I've seen no evidence of either in the past, although we have only lived at this house for less than a year. What mystifies me is the one dead Brahma, which looked like its neck was broken, but there was no blood, and no signs of it actually being eaten. Also, the attacks likely happened during the day, since the chickens free range all over the property, and the attacks were in several locations. Very strange. Needless to say
I'll spend a bit of time tonight zeroing in my scope...
I'd love to hear any input on probable predators that could carry out this level of destruction.
ayalowit
Christiansburg, VA
www.deephallow.net
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egon
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Re: Massacre!!!
[re: andrewy]
07/27/06 05:41 AM
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I'd suggest dogs as you have stated. If it is dogs they will be back.
What type of neighbourhood do you live in? [ open, lots of trees, neighbours etc. ]
Egon
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andrewy
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Re: Massacre!!!
[re: egon]
07/27/06 06:39 AM
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I live in a valley, that's about 30 acres, mainly wooded and very steep. I'm surrounded by about 500 acres of wooded and steep land, the nearest house is maybe 1/3 mile away. This is a fairly populated area, though, with this land being an oasis of sorts in a fast growing area. I have not heard any barking.
andrewy
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rfawkes
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Re: Massacre!!!
[re: andrewy]
07/27/06 09:36 AM
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It could be raccoons, dogs, cayotes, or foxes. More than likely it is dogs. My neighbors swear their dogs are sweet and wouldn't hurt anything, but when I catch one with a chicken in his mouth he just disappers. We also get a lot of dogs dropped off in the country when they are unwanted. Those dogs are always hungry. They come into my garage and tear open bags of feed to eat if they can't find anything else. They dissappear too.
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Adron
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Re: Massacre!!!
[re: andrewy]
07/27/06 12:08 PM
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Sounds more like an ambush attack from several different locations. If you were home I think you would have heard a dog attack as they have little fear of humans. 8 large hens missing would lead me to believe more than 1 animal. Small chicks 1 racoon can wipe them all out as I recently found out. I am of the opinion that more likely coyotes or perhaps a bobcat with young. IMO
Adron
You can have it good, quick or cheap. Pick 2.
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egon
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Re: Massacre!!!
[re: Adron]
07/27/06 02:06 PM
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I'd still go with the dog's as there did not seem to be any intent on killing to eat. The surrounding countryside would also nuture a pack of dogs. 
Egon 
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andrewy
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Re: Massacre!!!
[re: Adron]
07/27/06 03:52 PM
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I only ever found 2 bodies, one almost totally intact, one pretty much eaten. The only other things I found were piles of feathers scattered around the yard. I have not yet patrolled the surrounding woods to locate additional bodies, but I may tonight. I do think it was a multiple animal attack. There are 2 dobermans about 1.5 miles away through heavy forest, and they are not chained up. I've never seen them act aggressively in any way though, and 1.5 miles seems like a pretty hefty hike. I've never heard any dogs barking in the area, and pretty much the only wildlife I see/hear are turkeys, deer, and crows.
Andrewy
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Pat
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Re: Massacre!!!
[re: andrewy]
07/27/06 08:41 PM
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Govem today's litigious climate it is often better to NOT have too many friendly neighborly discussions aboiut KILLER DOGS. Owners are pretty much universally in denial and ignorant of the "bred for looks" wolves they have. If 6 mo or a year later their Fido is hit by a car or gets sick or just evaporates, you will the prime suspect! Unfortuinate but true.
All things considered it is way better for all roaming dogs, regardless of ownership, to just evaporate. Roaming dogs come in two varieties: 1. those that pack up and get into mischhief, and 2. those who are going to pack up and get into mischief.
Around these parts a fair percent of the land owners have a shoot on sight policy (high percentage of cattle producers and subject to uncompensated economic hardship from roaming dogs.)
 Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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andrewy
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Re: Massacre!!!
[re: Pat]
07/28/06 12:16 AM
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My county has an ordinance that allows the shooting of any dog chasing or attacking livestock. There is also an ordinance that allows me to claim damages from the county to the tune of $10 per bird, if I can reasonable prove that a dog was the culprit. Unfortunately, in this case, I have no idea. Game cameras might be the way for some sort of record in the future, though.
Andrewy
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Pat
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Re: Massacre!!!
[re: andrewy]
07/28/06 09:58 PM
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Interesting... At $10 per bird I would think some folks would buy a quantity of cheap chickens, put a stray in with them, take pix, slaughter the fowl, take more pix, shoot the dog, take more pix and make a huge profit from the county.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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andrewy
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Re: Massacre!!!
[re: Pat]
07/29/06 07:32 AM
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I've thought that same thing... **** THOSE ETHICS! I've never seen in the county meeting minutes records of payments being made, though. Perhaps it's one of those ancient rules still on the books but never followed.
Andrewy
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Pat
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Re: Massacre!!!
[re: andrewy]
07/29/06 10:32 AM
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Andrewy, It is not altogether unlikely for dogs to attack and kill a quantity of chickens or a whole flock and not eat them. Then later along comes the nightly patrol of fox, coyote, coon, possum, and/or rats who will not ignore a chicken banquet spread out before them. It would not be unusual to see a dog killed animal carcass fed on by any number of the usual suspects.
I have placed dead beaver near the center of my quarter section, hundreds of yds from water and when I checked back the next day there was no evidence of the beaver, not even blood. Apparently some animal(s) is/are dragging them away to a place of concealment before feasting. The smallest beaver ran about 60 lbs and some nearer to 80, I think, and they all vanished without a trace. Maybe one day I will find some bones or something but not so far in the last few years of my beaver trapping/shooting. I think it would have to be coyote or mountain lion as they were probably too heavy for anything else.
I guess if I cared enough I'd use an IR motion detecting camera and get pix. One of these days I will probably get one as I have several possible uses and it might be fun to see what all is wandering around at late and unusual hours while we are tucked snugly in our bed. If the activity of our motion triggered porch lights are any indication we will not lack for photographic subjects.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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andrewy
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Dang! I had no idea beavers got that large. My company sells high resolution outdoor ethernet web cameras and I'd love to put one of them out in the yard... though the $1000 cost outweighs the desire!
The tragedy of the massacre was offset somewhat of my discovery this evening of our first egg! It's tiny, maybe 1/2 regular size, but it was so pristine and clean... perfect!
Andrewy
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Pat
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Re: Massacre!!!
[re: andrewy]
07/30/06 09:50 AM
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Andrewy, If you ever got close to the chewing end of a live beaver you'd swear it was a 200 lb monster. Those chisels they have for front teeth are most impressive and can be dangerous to the unwarry.
I did not hang any of these guys from a scale and could be overestimating but not by a huge margin. Reference works vary in their comments about adult beaver weight but beaver continue to grow throughout their life and finding indivduals at 60 lbs is not going to make it into the Guiness book of world records. Beaver in excess of 50 lbs are routine, at least around here.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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andrewy
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UPDATE Re: Massacre!!!
[re: Pat]
08/25/06 08:14 PM
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It's been almost exactly one month, and I have had no more attacks on the adult chickens, and never seen any evidence or dogs or coyotes. I'm at a loss for what happened. HOWEVER...
now I'm starting to get a little upset! I ordered 20 or so baby chicks 2 weeks ago from Ideal to replace the massacred chickens, and they were ALL killed the night before last. I went in to check on the chicks and all were missing. I found pretty much every one stacked up in a pile off to the corner, with various bits missing. I've done some surfing, and this MO seems to be attributed to Rats. I have seen evidence of at least one rat running around. I bet it's one FAT rat about now, though.
I think it's time for a total coop redesign, and lockdown.
I'm off rat hunting tonight!
AndrewY
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rfawkes
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UPDATE Re: Massacre!!!
[re: andrewy]
08/26/06 06:41 PM
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I start mine in the house where I can watch them until they are about 4 weeks old. By then they could put up a ruckus and let you know there was a problem, or get away from a predator. I check my property for evidence of predators fairly often, and sometimes bait a raccoon with a can of tuna fish, then see if he can outrun my 9 mm carbine with laser sight.
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Pat
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UPDATE Re: Massacre!!!
[re: andrewy]
08/27/06 11:12 AM
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Dang Andrew, If it weren't for bad luck you might not have any luck at all! Rats can get through some pretty small holes. I wonder if two layers of the ole standby chicken wire separated by an inch or so with insulators and charged with a charger (outer layer hot, inner layer grounded) would do the deed. You could stagger the wire a half a hole width vertical and horizontal to make it take longer to get through thus ensuring getting zapped some.
Chickens on the inside would be very unlikely to contact the hot layer and a sapper infiltrating from the outside would get a good shock long before gaining access to the hot meal inside.
I used to raise rats (for live feeding an owl I rehabilitated for wild release) and learned that no matter hom much Purina rat chow you put in one end of the community cage that the rats would not stop working until they have taken every chunk to the other end and piled it up in "THEIR" pile. It didn't matter that it was in their cage, they had an instinct that drove them to "take possession" by putting it into their pile. So the rat behavior seems to fit your observation (no guarantee but not exclusionary either.)
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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