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chevdog
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Loc: Brookshire, Texas
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SSSSSSnakebite Kit???
10/14/02 07:25 AM
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Unfortunately our property has it's share of poisonous snakes - I have shot 2 water moccasins and it's also a habitat for rattlers and coral snakes. Since we are intruding on what was their undisturbed territory, I'm not surprised - we step carefully when there's brush or close by any ditches.
Here's a link to a website I was looking at. I was thinking that I need to be prepared as far as immediate treatment should somebody get bitten and this website seemed to have some good info.
I saw a discussion for a Sawyer Kit and wanted to know if anyone has every used one or if it's of any value to have one around. I would not cut the wound or any of that sort of thing, but I do believe that we should have some idea of what to do in case the snake is faster than we are. Advice?
Nick
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Stoneheartfarm
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Loc: West Central Michigan
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Re: SSSSSSnakebite Kit???
[re: chevdog]
10/14/02 07:32 PM
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I believe I read somewhere that an Ace bandage wrapped around the wound will stop the travel of the poison long enough to get to the Hospital. Don't know if it works, because I've never had the misfortune of being bitten, and have actually only seen 1 wild poisonous snake (that was still alive) in my lifetime. Seems here in the frozen North, those critters are either behind glass, or protected as endangered. 
I think the preferred treatment for a bite is to stabilize until you get to the Doc.
SHF
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JoeR
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Re: SSSSSSnakebite Kit???
[re: chevdog]
10/14/02 10:04 PM
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About 5 weeks ago, my neighbor was walking around outside barefoot... He was bitten by a Pygme Rattlesnake. At first, he didn't want medical attention. Then he started feeling warm and dizzy, followed by pain in his leg near the groin area. The poison was moving into his femoral artery. We started heading to the hospital and decided to stop at the local serpentarium. The guy extracts venom from snakes for a living! Anyway, he pulled out a snake bite kit that he purchased from Wal-Mart. He extracted as much poison as possible, the he personally took my neighbor to the hospital. He was worried that the hospital would give him improper treatment and make his side effects worse.
Moral of the story: If the Wal-Mart snake bite kit is good enough for a guy who handles poisonous snakes for a living, then it is good enough for me.
Joe R.
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chevdog
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Re: SSSSSSnakebite Kit???
[re: JoeR]
10/15/02 06:42 AM
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Thanks for the replies. I did want to mention that my intent is to get to the emergency room asap, not to try to home-treat any snakebites, but to use one of these kits to hopefully slow down the spread of poison.
Good advice on the Wal-Mart kit - good to know that the snake guy uses it!
I'm curious as to what improper treatment the hospital would have given him. I have known someone who was bitten and it's a good point about side effects - his arm got infected and wound up with some very nasty scarring. Took a long time to heal.
Nick
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JoeR
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Re: SSSSSSnakebite Kit???
[re: chevdog]
10/15/02 06:33 PM
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The "snake guy" didn't want the hospital to administer morphine type pain killers or steroid type medicines. Somehow it would have made his condition worse. Basically, if the side effects were not too bad, then the hospital just monitored his vital signs. The hospital worried about infection, and blood flow issues caused by the venom. From what I can remember, the poison from a rattlesnake causes the blood to lose its ability to coagulate and increases heart rate. They say NOT to elevate the wound, since you do not want the poison to spread into the rest of the body. The biggest problem with a poisonous snake bite is the location of the bite. If a snake bites the tip of your pinky, there is little circulation into this area and the poison can cause tissue damage resulting in amputation. How do I know this? Well, when I met the "snake guy" he was missing his pinky finger, and I asked if a snake bit his finger off. He said no, but the poison from a Cobra did a number on the tissue.
Joe R.
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chevdog
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Re: SSSSSSnakebite Kit???
[re: JoeR]
10/15/02 09:01 PM
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Excellent advice - thanks. I had not realized until I did some research the amount of tissue damage that a snakebite can inflict.
Nick
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njrqs
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Loc: Australia
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Re: SSSSSSnakebite Kit???
[re: chevdog]
10/16/02 05:43 PM
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Interesting reading on that website.
Over here we are told NOT to wash the area and to leave the venom there.
This allows positive ID by the hospital.
Possibly because we have many more species than you guys, because visual identification of many of our snakes is just not possible.
Many look so similar.
Interesting indeed.
From OZ
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JoeR
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Re: SSSSSSnakebite Kit???
[re: njrqs]
10/16/02 06:27 PM
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Everytime the Discovery channel has: The most poisonous, the most aggressive, the most potent ounce per ounce... Australia comes in 1st place. Australia should be renamed the most dangerous reptile country, something like herpapoisonous continent. Just kidding!
Joe R.
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Pat
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Re: SSSSSSnakebite Kit???
[re: JoeR]
10/18/02 10:46 PM
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Hey, don't make fun of the land "Down Under" or as the Monty Python troupe put it, "the land of sunshine and sharks."
About the Wallmart snakebite kit, what was in it? No one of any repute recommends cutting x marks and sucking out the poison (See Woody Allen in "Bananas"). There are small vacuum pumps sold for the purpose of extracting poison but I think the jury is still out. Many competent medicos recommend immediate transport to a medical facility where often the procedure is to observe the patient and intervene only as required.
Pygmy rattlers are a nuisance here as well. They rattle so innefectualy that they are often not heard. Worse, is to be bit by a young snake of a large species like a timber ratler or diamond back. The young typically give you all they got whereas adults modulate their output and might even deliver a "dry" bite, sans venom.
All snake bites are potential sources of infection, poisonous or not, as they don't brush their teeth.
Patrick
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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egon
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Re: SSSSSSnakebite Kit???
[re: Pat]
10/19/02 05:51 AM
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Somewhere in the dim past I have read that a snakebite victim should limit physical exertion and get himself to medical attention as soon as possible.
And here I'd always wanted to use that 12 inch Bowie Knife to make that big X.
Egon
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Pat
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Re: SSSSSSnakebite Kit???
[re: egon]
10/19/02 09:27 AM
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Egon, 12 inch Bowie knife? How archaic. With the advent and widespread use of cordless power tools such primitive measures are no longer required.
Right! Recall such things as keep the victim calm, no exertion etc. This, along with the advice to seek prompt medical attention.
OK, so assume I'm back in the S-E corner of my property, 1/2 mile or more from any road and I get bit. So, do I lay down and stay calm while waiting to see if I die or do I hike 3/4 mile to a phone and call for an ambulance that is 25 miles away and then drive to meet it to minimize the time required to make contact? Depersonalizing this a bit, the kernel I am trying to tease out is that the advice, most commonly given, is potentially contradictory. 1. Keep victim calm, still, etc. 2. Expedite victim to available medical assistance.
If you are alone does this mean walk slow toward medical assistance, transport, or communications? HMMMM...
Did you hear about the snake that was so poor (HOW POOR WAS HE???) He was so poor that he didn't have a pit to hiss in.
Last week in a dimly lit corner of my mom's garage a small snake about 16-18 inches in length got cranky with me, hissing and repetitively striking. Unfortunately due to poor lighting and his agitated state, I couldn't see his eyes well and he was making himself look viperish, so I stepped on his head quite forcefully and to my dismay when I took his lifeless form out into the light he was NOT a poisonous variety.
Typically, I can readily ID a snake as poisonous/non-poisonous due to limited variety of poisonous snakes hereabouts: various rattlers, copperhead, water moccasin/cottonmouth. A couple days ago when I drive my tractor to the barn to R&R the sickle bar mower with the brush hog there was a 3 1/2 -4 ft black snake with a racing stripe sunning in the south entry. He immediately went and hid under the brush hog. I ignored him until after attaching the brush hog and then raised it up and couldn't see him so I guess he left before or while I was hooking up. Given the number of mice and either real large mice or small rats that I saw while brush hogging I can see how he grew to that size. The pasture is a target rich environment.
Patrick
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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njrqs
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Re: SSSSSSnakebite Kit???
[re: Pat]
10/20/02 05:12 PM
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Hey, don't make fun of the land "Down Under" or as the Monty Python troupe put it, "the land of sunshine and sharks."
I hadn't heard that one !!!
yes we do appears to have some dodgy snakes.
I have seen 6 since we moved in here 2 years ago.
The biggest was last week and it scared the *876&*) out of me as it was way too close for comfort !!
Cheers
From OZ
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Pat
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Re: SSSSSSnakebite Kit???
[re: njrqs]
10/20/02 10:09 PM
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Neil, John Cleese and Co. (Monty Python) did a sketch portraying themselves as Bruce, Bruce, Bruce, Bruce, and Bruce, from the Philosophy Dept. of Walamalu University (Australia). They maligned virtually every western philosopher of note from Emanuel Kant (who was a real p--s ant), David Hume (who could out consume...) Rene deCartes who was a drunken fart who said, "I drink, therefore I am.) and on and on. You need to hear it, it ranks right up there with the "Lumberjack Song."
I have yet to personally positively ID a poisonus snake on my property (160+ ac). My neighbors have all had incidents with copperhead, water moccasin, pigmy rattler, diamond back rattler but with the exception of the one I may have shot with an imperfect ID, I haven't seen one. Just luck, I'm sure I'll cross paths with them in time.
To date I have tried to kill 2 snakes on the place. One was in a pond headed straight (well his average course was straight) for my wife on the bank and I was armed. I think the 4th shot may have connected, he went down. I was NOT impressed with my shooting. I need some coaching and practice to work on my accuracy with my baby Glock in .45 cal. With my Colt .45 Gold Cup National Match I would have had him 2 out of three shots at that range but I am NOT good with the baby Glock but the Colt is too big for summer time concealed carry. I now carry a second magazine loaded with shot shells which I use in the "bush". Super fine aim is not required. The other snake was acting really aggressively and I couldn't see him real well in the dim light so I stepped on his head rather forcefully.
My preferred snake policy is to ID them as poisonous or non-poisonous and if of interest to me, catch the non-poisonous ones for inspection or show and tell. Poisonous snakes that I come across on my property when I have the means to safely dispatch them are destroyed. I do not seek them out or try to elliminate them. I don't try to run over snakes on the road. Maybe I am inconsistent and illogical but that is my policy on my land. I don't go looking for them but if we cross paths AND they are poisonous AND I can do it safely, they are dead.
From what I see on TV (Irwin et al), you have so very many more snakes that are so much more dangerous than we have.
Good luck staying clear of troubles,
Patrick
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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