CountryByNet.com Forums :: Two coyotes attacked my fat border collie tonight. Advice please!

Ranchman, Please don't get upset with me over shades of grey. I don't advocate long range varmint shooting with a .22 (except 22's like mine, 22-250 or the 220 Swift or similar.) I thought the issue I was addressing was coyotes close enough to the house to attack a child in which case I too will "Stick to my guns." at close range my suppressed subsonic .22's are highly lethal to coyote sized animals.

If you mean ranges out at 100-200 yds then AGAIN we are in complete agreement, wrong boomstick. If you want to snipe varmints at long distances, really reach out ant touch some then the .22 rimfires, magnum included are not in the top 10 to 20 choices. I agree that the "new" .17 is not a long range round either. Didn't claim that. I claim it is lethal to coyote sized animals... at reasonable ranges.

Ethics? I have never and would never intentionally shoot to wound an animal nor would I intentionally set out with a weapon incapable of humanely disatching the intended "victim" at the ranges I expected to shoot. I didn't intend to discuss, in my previous post, any recommendatons for a planned varminting session. I just said the .22 and .17 were adequate to kill a coyote and they are. I would never advocate them as the weapon of choice for doing it at great distances where their ballistics render them marginally capable of yielding the performance needed for a reasonble expectation of a "clean" kill.

If the shooter has the opportunity to shoot a coyote at close range due to the coyote being too "familliar" with people (often a precursor to attacks) or if the shooter is clever enough to draw the coyote in to his "kill zone" then I personally wouldn't fault him for using the .22 if the shooter had the skill to reasonably expect to place the shot in a lethal manner. Otherwise, I too recommend MORE GUN. There is a big difference between long range sniping and using the gun as an alternative to "hand to hand combat."

I'm not sure what you intended with your deer poaching remarks.

I don't advocate poaching. I don't advocate deer hunting with inadequate firepower. I didn't actually advocate varminting with a .22. I think the spirit or intent of my comment was that if the coyote were there and you had a .22 and opportunity to use it efectively, it could do the job. I don't advocate a runninig shot at 200 yds but stopped or moving warily in at say 25 yds would make for a DEAD coyote with a reasonably skilled shooter. If the dog and coyote were in a fur ball then caliber isn't the issue, its shot placement.

The value of shooting a very small percentage of the coyotes within roaming range of your property is minimal beyod primal satisfaction. If on the other hand you or a neighbor feeds them on purpose or accidently (food left out for pets etc.) and they have lost their aversion to human scent and prescence then removing those individuals and changing the feeding regime are both good ideas. Just shooting a small percentage of the local coyotes at random isn't a solution, just a "feel good."

If the coyotes wore "colors" or could otherwise be identified at a distance so we'd know which ones were habitual, that would help. All coyotes are oportunistic feeders, quite clever, and learn quickly how to take advantage of an easy meal whether it is the family pet, pet food, or whatever. You need to take care that you aren't helping to create nuisance coyotes.

I personally have about the same policy for coyotes as I do for poisonous snakes. I do not intentionally seek them out to kill them. I know there are lots of them living on my property. I go out and about on my property armed. If I encounter a poisonous snake, I dispatch it as humanely and quickly as I can. I cary a magazine loaded with snake shot. If I'n not close enough for a clean kill then the snake isn't a danger to me. I'm not the world's best off hand pistol shot. If the coyote is too far for a good shot then he isn't a threat to me. So far I have never shot at one while just out and about on my property. If I suffered predation of any of my animals then I'd probably change policy accordingly. If any actually threatened a human on my property I'd likely change policy.

If I kept a dog that was incapable of defending itself in an environment where that was entirely likely to be required then I would consider myself at fault, not the coyote. Coyotes are natural preditors. They eat things to live. They prefer easy kills. It is altogether reasonable to expect that if we offer them an easy hot meal on 4 legs that they will take it. To blame that on the coyote is just wrong headed. We need to protect ourselves, our children and fat stupid pets from harm if we care. Killing every conceivable threat isn't reasonable. Taking prudent measures to protect our kids and pets can include coyote proof fences as well as removing "habituated" animals who frequently approach too close.

Armadillos carry leprosy. It is endemic in their population. Kill the armadillos.

Mosquitos can carry a number of diseases, and do. Not only West Nile Virus. Killing a couple mosquitos that happen to land in plain sight on your arm or hover by your ear will not solve the problem. Reasonable responses include controlliing their access to breeding environments. Wholesale trapping with "mosquito magnet" type devices, installing a number of bat boxes to attract a very significant natural predator, and use a good repellant (permethrin and time release microsphere encapsulated DEET.)

Well, ranchman, I don't think we are realy that far apart in our thinking, more a matter of degree than diametric opposition.

Pat

"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"

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