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missourihick
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pigeons in the barn pooping all over
12/12/03 07:13 PM
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I have fought pigeons for several years. They poop more than any bird I've ever seen. I have several tractors that I value very highly and these stupid birds seem dead set on vandalizing them. I would venture to say I have killed 20 of these pests in the last few years. Is there a better way to keep them away? Pellet guns rarely kill one and .22 goes through the tin. Maybe a bird poison.Is there such a thing?
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GaryM
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Re: pigeons in the barn pooping all over
[re: missourihick]
12/12/03 08:31 PM
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Might try .22 shotshells. They use no. 12 shot and probably won't go through the tin.
They used to market .22 cal shotguns for a sport called "mosskeeto". Used small clay targets at short range. perhaps you could locate one of these shotguns.
Crossman used to market CO2 powered shotguns. They used plastic shotshells that you reloaded. I have seen these at gunshows.
You might also try a more powerfull pellet rifle. I have a "spring air" gun that pushes a .177 pellet at over 1000FPS. These types of guns are available in .177, .20, and .22 calibers. Some are also available in .25 cal.
Do a search on Google for "adult air guns" and you'll find many returns. Cabela's and BassPro also carry these items. The airguns that is.
Gary
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missourihick
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Re: pigeons in the barn pooping all over
[re: GaryM]
12/12/03 09:22 PM
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I never thought about .22 shotshells,it'd work just fine.
My fathernlaw said he'd reload me some 12 ga shells with rice but he has'nt got it done yet and that was 6 monthe ago.
I'll have to see why my location didn't show up on my post. I am just east of Macon,Mo. small world.
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beenthere
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Re: pigeons in the barn pooping all over
[re: missourihick]
12/12/03 10:14 PM
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Just my observation on shotshells. I have found that a .22 long rifle shotshell (by CCI) is not as effective as a .22 long rifle birdshot cartridge (by Federal). I like the birdshot .22 cal for gophers, doves, etc. Also shoot sparrows when they try to pester the bluebirds trying to nest. The bird shot doesn't carry very far, and I feel safer than using the regular .22 long rifle shell.
Is there a way to board up (cover) the holes that allow the pigeons to get in your shed? Seems its the most effective way to avoid the problem. And I do agree that they are a real nuisance.
As a kid, we would catch pigeons at night using a flashlight and a gunny sack, then sell them for 10 cents each to a dog trainer. Four or five of us would pick up 70 to 100 pigeons in a good night. Made for some exciting times crawling around in barns and silo covers at night.
Edited by beenthere (12/12/03 10:16 PM)
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Hank
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Re: pigeons in the barn pooping all over
[re: GaryM]
12/13/03 07:44 AM
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Might try .22 shotshells. They use no. 12 shot and probably won't go through the tin.
I use these for the rattlesnakes. Lotta rocks around here, and I was concerned about ricochets. The shotshells meet this need just fine, and do a superior job on the snakes.
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GaryM
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Re: pigeons in the barn pooping all over
[re: missourihick]
12/13/03 08:47 AM
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My BIL is here with me now and says that if you're serving dinner, we might drive up and shoot some pigons for you. he wants to use a .410 with light loads. We reload .410 so that's not an issue.
BTW, the Mayor of Macon is a personal friend of mine. He's a fellow Ham operator. Dale, KØKY. I get up there once a year or so.
Gary
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missourihick
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Re: pigeons in the barn pooping all over
[re: missourihick]
12/13/03 10:16 AM
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A neighbor suggested looking into an ultrasonic repeller. That would be ok I don't care if it drives off everything.
That pigeon poop dries hard as crazy glue. Right now I have to keep things covered with those blue tarps. Who wants to ride horses when the saddle is covered in green and white.
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egon
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Re: pigeons in the barn pooping all over
[re: missourihick]
12/13/03 11:42 AM
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Surely can't help with ideas on keeping the pigeons away but would like to add that the droppings can be a health hazard.
Egon
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GaryM
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Re: pigeons in the barn pooping all over
[re: missourihick]
12/13/03 01:39 PM
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Let me know if you want to have a pigeon hunt after Christmas. Maybe in January. I guess the critters are still there then.
Gary
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robertn
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Re: pigeons in the barn pooping all over
[re: missourihick]
12/13/03 01:52 PM
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Is this in a barn, or an open front shed?
If this a barn, then it is time to do some repair work. I'd start by puting screen on all openings; in the eaves, vents, ect. Make sure you always close the doors. Make it so they can not get in.
If you shoot them, use light shot in a target load. A game loads will be too powerful and will blow holes through your barn. Even target loads will require caution.
You might try a .410, but even those put the shot out at velocites that a 12 or 20 gauge would.
Yes, .22 bullets put nice holes in barns, not that I would know about it personally 
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GaryM
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Re: pigeons in the barn pooping all over
[re: robertn]
12/13/03 03:57 PM
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A half oz. of no. 9 with a light load of powder in a .410 would be good. As stated a game load in any guage would be too hot. Target loads are generally lighter in power, but not always. A trap load might be plenty powerful.
Gary
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beenthere
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Re: pigeons in the barn pooping all over
[re: missourihick]
12/13/03 07:24 PM
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As big a nuisance as pigeons are around the world, I suspect if ultrasonic repellers really worked, they would be used a lot, because they would be cheap to operate.
I rather doubt that they are very effective. Also, birdshot in a 22 shell (by Federal) won't punch a hole in your barn roof or wall (like a regular 22 bullet). They might take out a window pane on a direct hit, but sounds like the pigeons may have already taken them out.
When they roost at night, they are not spooked by a flashlight. You could pick them off fairly easily, and at least reduce the flock (by night!). 
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missourihick
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Re: pigeons in the barn pooping all over
[re: robertn]
12/13/03 09:00 PM
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It's an open 50 year old amish hay barn.No way to keep them out.
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Inspector507
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Re: pigeons in the barn pooping all over
[re: missourihick]
12/14/03 09:14 AM
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There are a few bird repellent products on the market.
One is a sticky goo you spread on the tops of the trusses/rafters where ever they like to sit. It's so sticky they can't fly away. After a while the others get the idea and vacate the area.
Another is a strip that has 3" spikes sticking up placed close together. Put that on top of their roosting spots and they'll not have a place to land.
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SteveBenson
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Re: pigeons in the barn pooping all over
[re: missourihick]
12/14/03 09:32 AM
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We have a stable we close up at night and in the winter. Every spring we have a bunch of sparrows and starlings try to move in. They seem to figure out it's not a good spot to nest as they often can't get in or out. They seem to give up by time summer starts. We like to keep the barn open in the summer for ventalation.
I've heard that hanging a CD or DVD from a string can work as a bird repellant. I've never tried this so I can't say whether it works or not. But I have seen plenty of CDs hanging in gardens and such and I always wondered what that was all about. Not very attractive as a decoration, that's for sure. Then somebody told me they used this method in their barn.
It might be worth a try if all it cost you is a couple of old CDs. And if it don't work you can use them as target practice 
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Slamfire
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Re: pigeons in the barn pooping all over
[re: SteveBenson]
12/14/03 07:05 PM
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AOL donates CDs on a regular basis in my mail box.
A man's likely to mind his own business, if it is worth mindin' - Eric Hoffer
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missourihick
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Re: pigeons in the barn pooping all over
[re: Slamfire]
12/14/03 07:22 PM
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We just came in from a pigeon massacre,me and the kids went out with .22's and a spotlight. In the spring I will have to get up there with a caulking gun. They roost on the iron rail in the ridge.Where I shot holes not much rain will get in.
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Airedale
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Re: pigeons in the barn pooping all over
[re: missourihick]
12/15/03 05:41 AM
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I had the same problem, go to a sporting goods store and get some Aguila Super Colibri 22 ammo. These shells are loaded with a light 20gr bullet and just use the priming compound as propellant. They are quiet and will kill pigeons, but with their light bullet weight and low velocity they will not go through the roof.
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Pat
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Re: pigeons in the barn pooping all over
[re: Airedale]
12/29/03 03:53 PM
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I suggest you consider using Colibri in a pistol for even safer shooting. Super Colibri are more powerful than the regular but still come with warning to not use in a "long gun" as the bullet may not exit the barrel. I have never personally had a "short" round with either Colibri or Super Colibri but BE CAREFUL. Bird shot from a pistol is strictly short range, safe, and fun. I even shoot factory loaded shot shells in .45 ACP. You can develop some good "natural point of aim" skills with a good supply of moving targets.
There is a less fun solution: "Tanglefoot" is a commercial product which you "paint" everywhere birds perch. It does NOT hurt the bird physically (does not glue it down) but the birds really don't like it and will not stay on a surface painted with it. It just feels bad to them and they, lacking a place to perch, just go elsewhere. Coating lasts a long time, especially under a roof.
Tanglefoot would be on duty 24-7 but pistols or rifles with bird shot are more fun.
 Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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techinNY
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Re: pigeons in the barn pooping all over
[re: GaryM]
06/05/04 05:58 AM
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I don't have experience with .22 long shotshells but .22 mag. shot shells work excellent for pigeons. The other option is to get some friends that are good with shot guns and scare them out of the barn (pigeons) and have at them. They fly away after a while, but they usually come back for four or five rounds of shooting and it's fun.
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theboman
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Re: pigeons in the barn pooping all over
[re: missourihick]
06/15/04 08:18 AM
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Get an owl decoy or a hawk that squaks thingy. They use them all over Ashland to keep pigeons away and it works too. One restaurant has an owl perched on the building where the pigeons would set and bomb the sidewalk and patrons.
Bo McCarty, THE BO-MAN
Bluegrass, Pick It Up!
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Pat
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Re: pigeons in the barn pooping all over
[re: theboman]
06/16/04 09:27 PM
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About the CCI brand shotshells, the ones with the blue plastic bullet shaped shot container at WallMart for $3.19 plus tax for 20... I was doing a little extermination job on some winged nuisences and at ranges of about 10-15 feet in a .22 target pistol, Ruger 22-45, The best I could do was drop one with two shots (both dead on). At those prices, about 35 cents per bird, wouldn't I be better off loading #12 in a .410 or even in a 12 ga. I could load with cracked corn, wheat, rice or grass seed in a 12 ga and do better for less but with a tad louder report.
I wasn't brave (stupid) enough to try the CCI shotshells with the supressor. Guess I will have to consider using a rifle for a little more zap.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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GaryM
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Re: pigeons in the barn pooping all over
[re: Pat]
06/16/04 10:50 PM
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Not trying them in the supressed pistol was probably a good call. The supressor would likely get heavier with each shot! From the shot not leaving the end but staying in the supressor.
In europe they have, I'm told, a 32 guage shotgun. Smaller than a .410.
Gary
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Pat
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Re: pigeons in the barn pooping all over
[re: GaryM]
06/17/04 03:12 PM
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Gary, Recall the discusssion RE .22 shotguns built here in the USA? 32 gauge, big deal. Lets see now what is the nominal bore size of a 32 ga?
Quick, someone with a calculator and ready access to a ref text to get the density of lead... What is the diameter of 32 equal size lead balls that weigh a total of 1 lb in aggregate. I bet it is larger than .22 inches.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
Edited by Pat (06/17/04 03:17 PM)
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GaryM
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Re: pigeons in the barn pooping all over
[re: Pat]
06/18/04 08:18 AM
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Actually, after I made my post I looked on the net and discovered that a 32 ga. shotgun is slightly larger than a .410. Of couse this morning I can't find that website.
IIRC, the dia of a 32 ga. is about .43-.44 dia.
There's a gun show in July and I'll be on the lookout for that smoothbore .22.
Gary
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Pat
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Re: pigeons in the barn pooping all over
[re: GaryM]
06/18/04 09:28 AM
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Gary, I have a smooth bore .177 "shotgun." It is the Daisy Red Ryder commemorative model and as it is so small of a bore that its load is only a single spherical pellet. I have this to say about that... The "don't put your eye out" safety crowd have managed to get the velocity of that BB gun reduced to the point of total inefectivity. It is cute but useless as the holdover required to hit a 55 gal drum at 100 feet is reminiscent of shooting a mortar.
With the renewed interest in .17 cal firearms (I saw my first .17 cal varmint guns in the late 60's) I suppose someone will make a .17 cal shotgun (smoothbore for use with shotshells.)
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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GaryM
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Re: pigeons in the barn pooping all over
[re: Pat]
06/18/04 08:49 PM
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OK, I have a similar model fitted with a slug barrel! It's an RWS Mod 45 that I've had for a number of years. It pushes a "slug" at about 1000fps. I found some saboted slugs at a recent gunshow. I've not tried them yet, but as they are lighter we may be able to crack the sound barrier. i had misplaced them at the old house and found them when packing. Now I can't remember which box I put them in.
The mod 45 is a spring air gun. My possible concern with these slugs is that they might be light enough to pemit the piston to hit the end of the cylinder too hard. Might not have enough air cushion.
I'm still willing to visit the poster and help kill pigions. Should be fun!
Gary
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Pat
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Re: pigeons in the barn pooping all over
[re: GaryM]
06/18/04 09:32 PM
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Gary, I thought you'd be amused by my Daisy Red Ryder. I also have a pump Sheridan in 5mm, a cheap Chinese single pump (not break barrel) in .177 that shoots hard and straight but only cost $20 new (cheap built like an AK47) I also have a Feinwork Brau tack driver with 3-8X Beeman scope. Looks like a nice hunting rifle but is break barrel air gun (more than a tad expensive) Left handed model. I'm not a lefty but do more shooting of long guns left handed, especially moving targets. (Its a long story.) I qualified in the service for my marksmanship medal both left and right handed depending on my mood.
Tell me more about the sabot rounds. what cal? I think I want some if I have or can get something they will fit. I may have mentioned one time my maniacal desire to fire saboted .17 cal ouit of a .22.
Pat P.S. See the renewed Prius thread...
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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GaryM
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Re: pigeons in the barn pooping all over
[re: Pat]
06/18/04 10:59 PM
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I have the same scope on my RWS. It's a nice scope special made for the shorter ranges need for pneumatic arms. many folks use .22 rifle scopes, but they don't work too well for several reasons, the "double recoil" as well as the parallelex issues at the shorter range.
The saboted rounds are .177. came in a black plastic "Skoal tin" package. The pellet is a shortened ogie shape that is copper clad or washed. Actual projectile might be steel which would be OK as it won't actually contact the barrel.
Maybe I'll find them soon. I remember putting them in a box last weekend, but which box.
I have a nice FWB Model C2 CO2 target pistol you might like. uses refillable CO2 cylinders that you charge from a CO2 bottle with a dip tube so you get liquid instead of gas. Not shot it recently as I'm out of gas. need to hit the local fire extinguisher recharge place for a refill.
Gary
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Pat
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Re: pigeons in the barn pooping all over
[re: GaryM]
06/20/04 08:07 AM
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Gary, Although it didn't happen to me, I know folks who lost more than a cheap .22 scope to the double whammy of the air gun. I don't know what the "standard" practice is now for the better scope builders but decades ago even some really "tough" high popwer rifle scopes with BIG names could have parts (reticle etc.) dislodged by the douible whammy of some air guns.
May I have a tad more specificity sir? What is the cal of the bore the saboted rounds are fired from? I was hoping the projectile minus sabot was .177 with maybe a .223 or simiklar OD on the sabot.
I'm not at all familiar with the pistol you describe but it sounds really neat. I like the liquid refill for several reasons. What sort of velocities does it produce and how many shots on a refill? I assume it is a single shot?
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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GaryM
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Re: pigeons in the barn pooping all over
[re: Pat]
06/20/04 09:33 PM
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Yes, it's a single shot. The trigger pull is "exactly" two pounds, the minimum allowed in competition. If you don't lift the pisol with the weight hanging on the trigger slowly, it will fire.
The velocity is IIRC 550 FPS or so. And quite consitant which is even more important. I have two cylinders. The fellow I bought it from suggested placing the empty cylinders in the freezer for a while before filling. Get more inside if the cylinder's pre-chilled.
There's a little lever on top that opens the chamber so you can insert a pellet. Also cocks the hammer. Don't remember the shots per fill. but when the pressure drops to a set point, the remaining charge is vented, so you don't shoot with inadequate pressure.
I've not shot the gun in several years, maybe 8 or 9, but the serious competitors had a pellet sizer that they'd press each pellet through before firing. These are serious folks.
Gary
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Hey! Aren't you supposed to be working?
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Pat
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Re: pigeons in the barn pooping all over
[re: GaryM]
06/20/04 10:21 PM
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Gary, since you don't use it you should send it to me to check it out for you.
Serious shooters with custom guns sometimes have a small length of their rifled barrel (make the barrel a couple inches long and cut it off later, after rifling) into which they press the bullet prior to firing to pre-grove it prior to inserting it into the breech with the pre-groving lined up with the rifling. I never got that INTO it.
I checked out the saboted pellet site... Very interesting reading albeit with several errors. You can "read through" the errors and get what was intended. I'll probably order some of the pellets.
I don't get the cooling thing. If you are filling the cylinders with liquid and not continuously compressing a gas to fill the cylinders such as when filing a SCUBA tank or a welding gas bottle like argon or oxygen, you aren't creating a lot of heating (like why an air compressor tank gets hot.) In fact, chilling the cylinder shrinks it a tad reducing its capacity.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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GaryM
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Re: pigeons in the barn pooping all over
[re: Pat]
06/21/04 07:17 AM
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Pat, I'm no expert but, if the cylinder's at say 70 deg F and you introduce liquid CO2. The CO2 will tend to gas as it's pressure is reduced below that of the cylinder it was in, right? maybe not? If the empty cylinder is chilled won't there be less tendancy to convert from liquid to gas. Or is that more of a pressure rather than temperature issue? The receiving cylinder is about 5" in length and about 7/8" dia and machined out of aluminum. We're not talking about a lot of volume. I just pre chilled because the fellow I bought the pistol from recommended it. Also weigh the charged cylinder to see how much you got in there.
Probably makes no difference in the long run.
Gary
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Pat
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Re: pigeons in the barn pooping all over
[re: GaryM]
06/21/04 08:48 AM
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Gary, I think your bottom line says it well, "Probably makes no difference in the long run."
I'll not launch a huge dissertation on Boyle's and Charles' law topics... lucky you!
The boiling point of CO2 at typical ambient barometric pressures is so far removed from room temperature (unchilled aluminum cylinder temp) that the gains in storage from chilling the cylinder are likely more theoretical than practical.
As a reloader you undoubtedly have the means to accurately weigh the filled cylinder and see, after a series of fillings, some chilled and some not, what difference it makes in the gross weight of the cylinder. Subtract out the tare weight and note the percentage of difference in the average weight of usable gas. Convert this to shots you can make prior to auto shutoff and decide if it is significant to you. Likely it is a ritual that when performed made someone feel good but didn't have much in the way of other benefit.
You might benbefit from chilling the larger (supply) cylinder. You might benefit more from filling the smaller cylinder then chilling it and topping it off.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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