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Pat
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How armored are armadillos?
11/03/03 11:08 PM
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Just how armored are armadillos? Will there tough armor deflect a grazing bullet? I got off a couple shots at fairly close range with no apparrent effect other than continued motivation to depart the area. I'm not the best shot in the world with a pistol but I can routinely do better on smaller targets at equal or greater range.
I had a close and easy stationary broadside shot but asked the land owner for permision and the armadillo didn't wait for me to get the OK so I let the varmint run to the edge of the pasture because once in the brush they usually slow down as they feel less exposed. I approached and shot twice then put the gun away to avoid needless expenditure of ammo and making noise with no visible results.
I don't know how the armadilo felt but I was a bit embarrassed since I like to think I am a better shot with my regular carry piece than that. Hence my curiosity about the ability of an armadillo's armor to deflect a grazing shot. The shots were end on and could easily have not been dead center but I thought the probability of two misses at that range to be small. Oh well.
Side note: Not a comforting performance and to add insult to injury my baby glock with less than 200 rnds through it jammed on the second shot (first ever jam), did not eject the spent round after multiple attempts to recycle the slide and ejector and neccessitated being cleared with my leatherman.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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Ranchman
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Re: How armored are armadillos?
[re: Pat]
11/04/03 09:46 AM
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Will there tough armor deflect a grazing bullet?
No more than any other substance. Water or a twig will deflect a bullet, after all. A .22 will do significant damage that will dispatch one post haste, assuming your shot placement doesn't take out one of its feet or such. Anything bigger (like a common defensive handgun cartridge) will make an absolute mess.
No offence to your shooting skills, but based on your description, it sounds like a clean miss with "Army" reacting to the sound. You didn't say what type of gun (or cartridge) you were using, but you might want to check to see if the sights are misaligned since you believe your skills are above par.
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JazzDad
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Re: How armored are armadillos?
[re: Pat]
11/04/03 11:22 AM
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It's not the question of defense, but offense when talking about Armadillos.
Not many are aware of this, but there are armadillo training camps in our country, right under our very noses. These creatures come from all over to hone their para-military skills. I've seen the secret video footage of the 9 banded variety using AK-47s and RPGs. Fortunately for us, most are killed trying to make their way home as they cross highways, and we are not subjected to their recently acquired, dangerous behavior.
Or I could be mistaken.
All kids are gifted; some just open their packages earlier than others.-Michael Carr
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bigbukhntr
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Re: How armored are armadillos?
[re: Pat]
11/04/03 02:51 PM
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yep...sounds like "armadillo fever" set in....I have taken out many a armadillo while rabbit hunting with a .22 rifle....although it is more fun with the .270, as long as its not my property but the deer lease that we shoot it on!
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Pat
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Re: How armored are armadillos?
[re: bigbukhntr]
11/04/03 03:44 PM
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bigbukhntr, If there were a reliable supply of those beasties in my buds pasture, I't take the 22-250 over for a workout. Man, that would make a mess. Better to spook them into running to the brush at the edge of the field where the "untidyness" would be less visible.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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Pat
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Re: How armored are armadillos?
[re: JazzDad]
11/04/03 03:59 PM
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JazzDad, If the godless atheistic communist frogs being trained in Cuba by Castro and secretly smuggled into Dade county Florida ever joined forces with the ArmyDillos our women and children wouldn't be safe to walk the streets of our cities after dark nor would they be safe in their own homes.
The Birch John society, long underappreciated and often confused with a lunitic fringe group advocating wooden toilets, have warned ot this threat to life as we know it but most often their warnings fall on deaf ears. Stay vigilant.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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gadgetman
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Re: How armored are armadillos?
[re: Pat]
11/08/03 09:45 PM
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Although the threads seem to be headed in the humorous vein, I have seen them hit (and I mean hit) numerous times with a .22 pistol and continue to move--usually out of sight. Of course, in about 2 days you will discover (WITH YOUR NOSE) that the .22 did sufficient damage. We have found that 12 guage #6 shot will usually dispatch them and leave the body easier (AND LESS SMELLY) to find and dispose of.
TANK THEY 'AINT.
I've shot them and had them JUMP 5 or 6 feet in the air. I shot one under the overhang of my fifth wheel and it jumped up and put a dent in the bottom.
If you are into golf they make plenty of cup holes.... My wife uses some of their holes to plant bulbs--usually right in the way of the lawnmower.
OK, let's see where this post continues...............
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Pat
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Re: How armored are armadillos?
[re: gadgetman]
11/09/03 06:34 PM
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gadgetman, What you have described is a great delineation between lethality and stopping power. A .22 short may be lethal but has little stopping power. I believe that a .45 ACP (HI Vel soft nose or hollow point) has great stopping power, perhaps way more than a .357 magnum but it is not as lethal as the realy fast rounds. I personally think that lethality favors energy (proportional to the square of the velocity) and that momentum (linear with veloity) is more related to stoping power or knock down power. Consider a bowling ball or medicine ball tosssed at your center of mass, likely to knock you down, maybe stop you temporarily , but not likely to be lethal. Figure the momentum (mass times velocity) of a bowling ball it is likely greater than a lot of pistol cartridges. It'll knock you down but probably not kill you. Consider a .17 cal varmint round (not the new .17 toy but some of the original stuff) Velocities a significant percentage of C (the speed of light) OK, I exaggerate a bit! When they hit they Osterize the wound area but won't knock down a decent sized target very well. You don't hunt deer with it. It will kill a deer but the long tracking period is a bother.
I found out 2 things. 1. I was rusty with the trusty Glock. 2. the Glock wasn't trusty (2 misfeeds in less than 50 rnds. Resolved: Glock will get checked out A N D I will return to the field of combat with one of my supressed .22 weapons. They are quiet enough to allow you to hear the bullet impact with the target (of course you don't wear muffs). Also I am way better with a Walther P-22 or Ruger 10-22 than the above Glock. In the unlikely event (just kidding) that the first round misses Mr. Armydillo it will have been so quiet that it won't spook him unless it kicks sand in his face.
Don't have a supressor for a 12 gauge and not sure what it would take or how well it would work. I'll ask my gunsmith.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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gadgetman
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Re: How armored are armadillos?
[re: Pat]
11/09/03 09:37 PM
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Pat, I understand (somewhat) what you say. In "BUBBA ENGLISH" The bigger the bang the deader the target!!!!! Just ask a Tank Gunner!!!!!
I used to shoot IMHSA and NRA from .22 to 44 MAG. At 200 yards, the 44 MAG would (as long as you hit it right) take down a 20 plus pound Ram Sillouette but you could use a .22 all day and at least not have to reset the target.
Out in the country where I live we can still get away with the 12 guage. And you usually just have to be "CLOSE"!!! Think those supressors are illegal in most states.
Just keep up the practice and remember, an armadillo has at least 4 each litter, so the targets will not run out in our lifetime. Just know what you are aiming at and HIT IT.
Of course, I haven't tried a bowling ball yet. But a car tire (attached to my truck) usually takes care of them...........
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Pat
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Re: How armored are armadillos?
[re: gadgetman]
11/09/03 10:40 PM
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Gadgetman, Actually supressors are lisc through the BATF (Fed Gov) They are treated as a firearm and the make, model, and serial is recorded. If you transfer one it is the same as a gun of the same class. Pretty much the same as full auto stuff. Lots of fingerprinting, passport photos, background checks with a lot of alphabet soup agencies at all levels. You have to get the top cop at the county mounty shop to sign off that he thinks it is a good idea for you to have the device before the paper drill goes any further and your fee (I should say F E E !!) is gone win lose or draw. Be prepared for a lengthy wait. A few secret handshakes helps too.
It is pretty neat to be able to plink without muffs. The hottest .22 ammo I have found comes out of the P-22 with supressor at a sussonic velocity, i.e. no sharp crack. With a long gun like my 16 inch barrel Ruger 10-22 the muzzle blast is quieted but with high vel rounds you still have a supersonic projectile and and the sonic boom (loud crack). Of course lower velocity rounds are real quiet. All you hear is the action slaming shut, the empty hitting the ground, and maybe the bullet hitting the target.
I can attest to the fact that it is so quiet that no one knows or cares that you are shooting. Framers 100 ft behind me thought I was shooting a low power pellet gun. With multiple varmint targets, followup shots on subsequently targeted animals are improved because you don't scare everything in your end of the county when you make a couple shots.
Of course, some states in their infinite wisdom, infringe on the 2nd ammendment and although they have concealed carry on the books they make getting it impossible for the average citizen. Ditto supressors! It isn't right, it just is.
Try to find a reliable source of statistics that has much to say about crimes being committeed by folks with legal concealed carry or legally lisc supressors or full auto weapons. Those folks do not constitute a clear and present danger to anyone. They are under-represented in crime statistics, i.e. less likely to be involved in a gun related crime than the rest of the population. Still they are a focal point for rabid anti-gun nuts. Seek out the folks who are part of the solution not part of the problem and harrass them.
//SOAPBOX MODE OFF//
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
Edited by Pat (11/09/03 10:41 PM)
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Al_Wa
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Re: How armored are armadillos?
[re: Pat]
11/10/03 01:33 PM
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You shot at an armadillos on someone else's land, don't know if you hit it, didn't follow it to make sure, planned on leaving it to rot and you want to know if bullets bounce off his hide?
Why did you shoot it to begin with?
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Pat
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Re: How armored are armadillos?
[re: Al_Wa]
11/10/03 06:14 PM
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Al_Wa Yup, that about sums it up except for the part where the landowner stopped the 4 wheeler to let me off the back to take the shot.
Being in the brush near the edge of a large pasture when I shot at it, it never occured to us we needed to track it down and perform triage to determine if by acting promptly we could save it.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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Al_Wa
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Re: How armored are armadillos?
[re: Pat]
11/10/03 07:42 PM
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Well Ok, wasn't as much concerned about saving the critter as making sure it was dead. The question remains, why did you shoot it? Not any armaldillos in my neck of the woods, just wondering what makes em' open season.
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gadgetman
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Re: How armored are armadillos?
[re: Al_Wa]
11/10/03 08:35 PM
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Al_Wa
I'll take that one. Just step in one of their holes in the middle of the night and almost break an ankle and you would take up hunting too.
In Georgia, they do eat Fire Ants, grubs, etc. so they are helpful. But not in the yard at the back door. I leave them be in the woods, but look out around the house.
Don't know where you are at, but based on the maps about armadillos it will be just a matter of time until they completely cover the U.S. Maybe not in the real cold areas but just about everywhere else. We didn't have them in Middle Georgia until about 20 to 25 years ago.
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Al_Wa
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Re: How armored are armadillos?
[re: gadgetman]
11/11/03 09:08 AM
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gadgetman, Thanks. Had to be a reason other than target practice, my way of thinking. I'm in the Northwest and don't have to deal with them. I was stationed in Texas a long time ago and figured out you can't run an Armadillo down on foot. They turn quicker than a pig.
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Pat
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Re: How armored are armadillos?
[re: Al_Wa]
11/11/03 09:49 AM
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Al-Wa, Hmmm why did I shoot it?
1. It wasn't just because it was there or just because I could. I don't shoot lots of things that others would and do. I don't shoot at the coyotes on my place, so far. I don't shoot at the turtles in the ponds. I don't go out of my way to find and shoot poisonous snakes on the place B U T I will shoot a poisonous snake in my vicinity. I tolerate roaming/stray dogs one at a time, not a pack, and would only shoot a single dog that chased stock or acted unfreindly to me (bad choice of behaviors on my property).
2. The land owner (driving the 4 wheeler) didn't have his gun with him (I had my carry).
Now a good question is, why would a land owner want armadillos shot? Depends. That landowner has 480 acres which he works hard to improve and tries to employ good management practices in his cattle operation. He is one of the more modern enlightened cattlemen in the immediate area. If you claim to be a cattleman then you are really in the grass business. Your job really is to maximize grass production under heavy traffic and grazing pressure.
Armadillos are abundant, way too abundant, all out of proportion to historical levels. They are quite destructive in that they burrow, A LOT. Last year a good friend broke a front axle on his tractor when he put a wheel through a burrow. That is not an everyday happening but acidents and difficulties due to their burrows is NOT a rare event. Cattle can be hurt steppinig into a hole or breaking through unexpectedly.
Even if the cattle were not hurt, armadillos really can mess up the field that you might be trying over time to get into near putting green smoothness. There are estimates on how many armadillos equals the loss of grazing equal to a head of beef but I don't recall. There are figures like that for rabbits as well.
I am more that open to anyone's thoughts regarding the GOOD that armadillos do for cattlemen. I would temper my actions if persuaded of their value.
I don't advocate erradication of the species from the face of the earth. I do endorse controlling the populaltion where they cause economic impact. This is a part of management in the real world.
Some folks want us to stop castrating bull calves, poling calves(dehorning), branding (I personally favor freeze branding) and various other "cruelty to animals" practices like using barbed wire, electric fences, cattle prods and so forth. If you haven't seen it in a feature length Disney cartoon then you shouldn't do it to a poor dumb animal.
I NEVER listen to any animals rights talk unless the speaker is a strict vegetarian who is not overweight nor has more than one child, isn't wearing leather, and wears a flu mask (even little animals we breathe in should have rights).
Animal rights? Armadillos have the right to remain silent, DEAD silent. They have cute babies, twins. My aunt had some babies in a gallon jar of alcohol under her sink for over 30 years.
Aren't you glad you didn't ask for the time of day? You might have gotten a 5 part lecture series on the subject of the history of horology.
Pat 
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
Edited by Pat (11/11/03 09:55 AM)
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Ranchman
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Re: How armored are armadillos?
[re: Al_Wa]
11/11/03 09:55 AM
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I was stationed in Texas a long time ago and figured out you can't run an Armadillo down on foot. They turn quicker than a pig.
They certainly do.
When I was a little kid, if dad saw one and I was with him he'd act all excited and tell me to run and "catch it!" Being the dutiful son, I always tried my hardest, running as fast as I could and using all my "moves" to run 'em down - never ever got close.
Wasn't 'till I was a little older that I realized dad knew I'd never catch one and my running around was really just something he found entertaining. 
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LazyJ_Arabians
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Re: How armored are armadillos?
[re: Ranchman]
11/11/03 12:20 PM
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I deal with armadillos the same way I deal with possums. At night, with a spotlight, and a stout hickory club. Always dispose of the carcass as they carry parasites and disease that pets can suffer from. Only critter I hunt more vigilantly on my place would be the poisonous snake. Done most effectively at night also, but with a looong handled hoe substituting for the club. I thought I would have to address a growing beaver population but one of my cats acquired a taste for baby beaver for breakfast this past spring. Managing the ecosystem, one of the most challenging farm responsibilities.
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gadgetman
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Re: How armored are armadillos?
[re: Al_Wa]
11/11/03 09:02 PM
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Al-Wa, Pat
Sorry I dropped off the discussion but just after I posted my comments I got a fire call (Volunteer Fireman). Didn't get back to the house to almost 1 in the morning. As my day starts at 430 AM, didn't give me any more time than shutting down the computer.
Al-Wa, my Brother-in-Law (right next door and Retired) sometimes sits up late at night "Army Hunting". Even with all the ones we have sent to the other side, there are still plenty of them left. We get some help from the 4 lane highway but they still keep coming back.........
Pat, Sounds like you've got some good firepower. Most folks in this area are "armed" in one way or another, so the crime rate is somewhat low. When you FEAR the possibility of meeting the business end of a firearm while illegally in someones home, it makes you think twice. In Georgia though, make sure they are "INSIDE" before you fire or you see a weapon in their hand.
Carry permits are fairly easy to obtain in Georgia. Most are issued by the Probate Judge. By Georgia Law, they are NOT allowed to ask why you want a permit. As long as you check out with the local law enforcement a permit MUST be issued. However, there are so many restrictions on carrying in "PUBLIC PLACES" that you just about have to be a lawyer to figure out when it is allowed.
Just keep all your Armadillos there and I'll do the same. Wait a Minute!!!! Wonder if they like Desert Sand................. Bet they could uncover those mass graves and WMDs in no time............
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