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cwarrix
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Using maganets to soften water?
12/02/04 01:12 PM
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I found the following link on one of the ads here. This looks pretty interesting IF it works. Does anybody have any input on these types of systems? Do they really work?
http://clearwatermax.com/
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lmassom
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Re: Using maganets to soften water?
[re: cwarrix]
12/02/04 04:40 PM
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A large part of what makes hard water hard isn't magnetic!!!!
Larry
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DocHeb
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Re: Using maganets to soften water?
[re: cwarrix]
12/02/04 05:29 PM
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In reply to:
Do they really work?
No. See Magnetic Water and Fuel Treatment: Myth, Magic, or Mainstream Science?
For truthful information, see Ohio Pure Water.
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jimbrown
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Re: Using maganets to soften water?
[re: cwarrix]
12/02/04 06:06 PM
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Dear sir; I have some ocean front property here in Cochise county Arizona, only 10 miles from Mexico. I am willing to sell for only $1000 a foot for actual ocean front.
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cwarrix
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Re: Using maganets to soften water?
[re: cwarrix]
12/02/04 06:58 PM
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OK, first of all I'll pass on the ocean front property
Thanks for the replies. I just started reading some of the sales literature and testimonials and wondered if it was real or not. Based on the article DocHeb pointed me to, this doesn't sound like something I want to try.
Also, just noticed I spelled magnets wrong! Guess I need a spell checker.
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Pat
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Re: Using maganets to soften water?
[re: cwarrix]
12/09/04 10:42 AM
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Good decision! Magnetic water treatment is "snake oil." Ditto for magnetic fuel line accessories for BIG MILEAGE INCREASES.
B U N K ! ! !
A nationwide solicitation was made for verifiable repeatable laboratory testing to validate claims. If provided and verified, a large order was to be placed by a state autority.
NO COMPANIES RESPONDED! NONE! ZILCH, NADA, NOBODY
This leaves you to decide why. Do they have so much business they don't want large orders? Or do they lack verifiable testing?
File their claims away next to the stories about the 500 MPG carburettors that the oil companies squelched.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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egon
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Re: Using maganets to soften water?
[re: Pat]
12/09/04 05:06 PM
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Can't be all Bunk. Any free iron particles would surely be attrated to the magnet thus stopping them from plugging up a filter!!! You may not realize the power some companies can exert.
Egon
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Pat
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Re: Using maganets to soften water?
[re: egon]
12/12/04 09:54 PM
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Egon, Thanks so much for your correction. As Egon has pointed out, if you happened to have iron fillings in your water supply, the magnet could stop some of them from getting through. Of course this has nothing to do with making the water softer, i.e. reducing the mineral content that reacts with soap to make the insoluble curd layer on us that passes for being clean after a shower in hard water.
Next we'll see magnetohydrodynamic drive units to replace pumps with a liquid equivalent to a linear traction motor.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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egon
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Re: Using maganets to soften water?
[re: Pat]
12/13/04 05:20 AM
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Converting hard water to soft water is really quite simple. Just place the ice cubes in a glass filled with the hydrating liquid of your choice. As you watch you will notice the hard ice cubes become smaller and smaller. There may even be some moisture condense on the exterior of the glass.
Egon
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Chillimau
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Re: Using maganets to soften water?
[re: egon]
12/15/04 09:02 AM
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And if the outside of the glass was clean, it would be distilled water?
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egon
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Re: Using maganets to soften water?
[re: Chillimau]
12/15/04 11:01 AM
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Hey - right on.
I'll take credit for having thought of that!!!
Egon
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Rayko
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Re: Using maganets to soften water?
[re: cwarrix]
09/12/05 06:47 PM
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Hi Folks:
I am new to this web-site, and have been browsing past posts to get familiar with the site. I came across this question concerning "Magnets and Water Softening"..
I know a little bit about this and thought I'd pass along some information that might be helpful.
Our rural home has "VERY HARD WATER". So much so, that it actually hurts to take a shower, and feels very itchy on your skin, plus it is necessary to use a lot more soap than you would imagine because of the hardness of the water.
In past years, we used to use an industrial capacity water softener (which used salt pellets) to soften the water, and even at that, we had to cycle the unit several times a week to maintain a soft water supply.
Many years ago, we had done extensive research into the concept of using "Magnets" to soften water in order to find out if they had any merit or effect at all on hard water.
We discovered the following:
If you were to look under a powerful microscope at the various mineral particles contained in "hard water", these hardness particles would look like those unpleasant sticky little "burrs" that cling to your socks and pant cuffs when you walk through a field. These round little burrs have little spikes all over them that are very sharp and grab onto any piece of clothing that comes along. They are really hard to get off too!
Hard water is filled with microscopic little mineral "burrs" that have sharp spikes all over them, just like the field burrs would have. It is these microscopic little mineral burrs that makes "hard water" feel so bad on your skin, and creates the nasty hard water experience we are all familiar with.
When strong "Magnets" are applied to a water supply line. The magnet has the unusual effect of eliminating the sharp points on those microscopic mineral burrs in hard water. As a result, the hard water "Feels" better on your skin, and the itchy feeling during a shower goes away. Its also easier to do laundry and requires less soap than was previously necessary.
If you were to analyze the water again, after applying the magnets to the water supply line, the "hardness" and mineral content of the water would be the exact same as it was prior to using the magnets. The magnets DO NOT change the molecular composition of the water, as salt does during the Ion-Exchange process that occurs during a water softening cycle.
However, the hard water feels better and works better when laundering cloths, and would generally "appear" to be softer, even though it is not.
However, the magnetically treated hard water will still leave hard water spots, and tell-tale mineral deposits (because the water is still hard, despite its change in feel and useability.
Depending on how hard your water is, the change and feel of the water when using the magnets can be quite dramatic.
In our case the change was so dramatic that we had never used a water softener again. And, we would NEVER be without "magnets" on our water supply line again.
SPECIAL NOTE: It is not necessary to purchase these expensive electro magnets, or other magnetic systems that some vendors are selling. We purchased two simple permanent magnets called "lifting magnets" measuring about 1 inch wide and about 7 inches long, and put one each across from one another on the opposite sides of our plastic water pipe supply line .
These lifting magnets are cheap and easy to find, and have a lifting capacity of about 15-20 pounds each (for reference the stronger the better).
But, any strong permanent magnet that you can find would work fine, you just want to create a strong magnetic field that extends through the diameter of your water pipe.
I hope this information is of some help. It's a very inexpensive solution, and you might enjoy the results, as we have.
Best Regards
Rayko
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egon
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Re: Using maganets to soften water?
[re: Rayko]
09/12/05 07:09 PM
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Oh dear, magnets again? I understand on older carburated cars they can also increase gas milage.
Really did not know that calciun and magnesium were ferric minerals.
Egon
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GaryQWA
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Re: Using maganets to soften water?
[re: Rayko]
09/13/05 08:41 AM
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"In past years, we used to use an industrial capacity water softener (which used salt pellets) to soften the water, and even at that, we had to cycle the unit several times a week to maintain a soft water supply.".
Then your softener was sized or programed incorrectly. And an industrial size softener wouldn't fit in any part of your house and may sitck up over the roof if iinstalled out side.
Also, it isn't 'salt' that softeners water, it's the cation resin or zeolite that exchanges hardness ions for sodium or potassium ions.
Gary Slusser
Gary Slusser
Quality Water Associates
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GaryM
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Re: Using maganets to soften water?
[re: egon]
09/13/05 12:43 PM
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I used to have some of these magnets, but the cow ate them!
Gary
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egon
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Re: Using maganets to soften water?
[re: GaryM]
09/13/05 04:16 PM
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Never trust a cow Gary. Do you get soft milk?
Egon
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DocHeb
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Re: Using maganets to soften water?
[re: egon]
09/13/05 07:12 PM
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Not only is the milk soft, it doesn't hurt when it hits him in the shower.
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egon
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Re: Using maganets to soften water?
[re: DocHeb]
09/14/05 04:27 AM
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Now to get Gary to put some magnets on the fuel line on his car!!
Magnets in cows is very common. Soft milk and no metal gets past the first stomach.
Egon
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GaryM
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Re: Using maganets to soften water?
[re: egon]
09/14/05 09:01 AM
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My ice cream is soft. Maybe there are too many magnets on the freezer?
Gary
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egon
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Re: Using maganets to soften water?
[re: GaryM]
09/14/05 04:52 PM
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Have you got those magnets set up so the flux follows the right hand rule or the left hand rule? It could make a difference.
Egon
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GaryM
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Re: Using maganets to soften water?
[re: egon]
09/15/05 01:52 PM
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Well, they were set for the 'right hand rule", so I reversed them. The ice cream is now hard, or at least "pointy", but the ice maker has quit working. I think the ice cream and ice cubes are of opposite polarity.
Tonight I'm moving the ice cream to the freezer with no magnets as a control.
Gary
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egon
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Re: Using maganets to soften water?
[re: GaryM]
09/15/05 03:18 PM
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Gary; Iv'e been doing some thinking. Best way fot Pat to increase his cars gas milage is place a magnet on the back of transport truck , attach a long line and get the wife to steer while he holds on!!
Egon
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Rayko
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Re: Using maganets to soften water?
[re: Rayko]
09/15/05 03:35 PM
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Hi folks:
It was so heartening to have my simple post generate so much continued interest and response.
You folks have a truly wonderful site in which others can feel comfortable sharing there thoughts and ideas.
I just thought I'd add a final thought or two:
The Industrial Water Softener we had used was not technically installed in a residential home, but was installed in a factory building. It was initially sized to serve the water needs of our manufacturing operation. However, as the business grew and our water demands increased, the water softener could not keep up without frequent re-cycling. (I just used the reference location of "home" for simplicity sake, because I spent more time at work than I care to admit.) By the way, it wasn't all that big a unit and we had no problem comfortably putting it inside the building.
I'm curious. As I read through your many spirited replies, I noted that it appears that none of the respondents ever "actually tried using magnets for themselves" to see if they actually noticed any tangible difference in the nature of their water. That's most interesting -- don't you think ?
By trade and profession, I have been a product design engineer for over 35 years, and am generally quite skeptical of all things that I'm not personally familiar with.
I'm retired now, and enjoying a slower lifestyle. But, my background has taught me one thing. That making assumptions and maintaining beliefs based on those assumptions can be quite limiting. Sometimes, going that extra mile and trying it our for yourself can open your eyes and your mind to a new experience that you might never of had otherwise.
Throughout history many successful design ideas have been the result of folks "doing" what everyone else said wouldn't work and couldn't be done.
After refiewing all the posts listed for this topic. It appears that I am the ONLY one who has actually experimented with the idea and tried it out for himself. My comments in my original post accurately reflect our results.
It would be wonderful if one of the many skeptics who have contributed so generously to this posting decided to go that extra mile, and bought yourself a couple of strong magnets, and tried it out for yourself. Once doing that, let us all know how it turned out. No good experiment should be considered valid unless it can be repeated with the same results. So, please give it a go, it would be fun to see what happens.
Again, thanks for all the generous and most interesting responses. Its been a lot of fun to say the least.
Rayko
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Pat
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Re: Using maganets to soften water?
[re: Rayko]
09/15/05 05:57 PM
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Rayko, Magnets for softening water is BUNK. Likewise for inreasing mileage on your car. Magnets are the replacement for pyramids in useless hyped money making schemes.
I think it was Oregon or Wash state (I forget which) that offered a large contract to anyone with scientifically gathered evidence from a repeatable experiment and there were NO TAKERS. Why wouldn't a legit company JUMP on an offer like that? It is pure SNAKE OIL. Magnets do not cure warts, loosen tight underwear waist bands, prevent hangnails, inrease fuel economy, or soften water. Magnets are for sticking junk to your friidge door and making a set of black and white Scottie dogs do tricks for kids.
Maybe the next wave of hokum will be carbon nanotubes...
Oh, I happen to have a lot of confidence in the testing methodologies employed by Consumers Reports (Consumers Union) Check with them.
There was a time in the US when tapeworm eggs were sold as diet pills. At least they worked!
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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GaryQWA
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Re: Using maganets to soften water?
[re: Rayko]
09/15/05 10:07 PM
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Rayko, I fully agree with getting out of the box and entertaining ideas about what isn't known yet. Up until about 25 years ago, science couldn't explain long runout landslides, said there would be no life on the ocean floor, had no idea why trees and other things were totally destroyed as high as 1000' along the upper west coast of the US and Canada (tsunamis) on' and on. Any scientist that put forth an idea was shunned and out of research funds very quickly. But soon there were new 'discoveries' that couldn't be denied, like pictures of "smokers" on the ocean floor with life we had never been capable of imagining, and a guy in Japan IIRC, showing the causes of long runout landslides. The landslide evidence was there and studied for over 100 years but everyone in the know said it couldn't be a landslide.... lol yet never came up with what caused the piles of rubble to be much farther away from where it obviously came down the mountain.... Then a guy found a long runout landslide on the ocean floor off Hawaii, which showed the cause of the tsunami that struck the North West of North America... And today we have something going on when recirculated water is run through any sort of strong magnetic field, but no one as yet can prove why or what is happening.
So although I haven't tried or witnessed magnets changing the the ability of water hardness to form scale phenomenon, I have seen it done as you describe, by the electronic anti-scale/descale devices on the market. They supposedly use the same 'principal', which currently can't be "proved" nor can the process be identified by current 'science'. So most people make fun of MWT and PWT; mechanical and physical water treatment. I used to be one of 'em, until I saw it in two prospective customer homes. A white powdery substance everywhere the water was allowed to evaporate. Now I don't sell them because most don't do anything but lighten the persons wallet, but if more of them did as I've seen those two do, I probably would as long as people didn't mind the 'dust' problem.
Pat, CR leaves out the majority of products in all categories they test and report on. Such as softeners, insurance polices, toasters, furniture, etc.. IMO CR is a poor choice for basing the selection of a specific product on; I once was a long time paying subscriber.
Gary Slusser
Gary Slusser
Quality Water Associates
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Rayko
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Re: Using maganets to soften water?
[re: Rayko]
09/16/05 04:52 PM
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Hi Folks:
RE: Pat. I appreciate your kind and determined post. You are absolutely correct, as is Consumer Reports. "Magnets DO NOT soften the water". If you re-read my initial posting carefully, you will find that I clearly acknowledge that Magnets DO NOT soften the water, and the water is just as hard with the magnets, as without. HOWEVER, what the Magnets actually do, is they tend to eliminate some of the more irritating problems associated with hard water. Thus, a shower "feels better" on your skin, and "less soap" is required when showering, or laundering.
RE: Gary. Thanks for the thoughtful response. We live in a wonderful world of constant discovery, and it is a pleasure to hear from someone with an open mind who embraces possibilities.
You folks have a wonderful day. I'll wait patiently for one of the more skeptical of you folks out there to actually go that extra mile and "try it", and let us all know how it turns out.
Best Regards to you all
Rayko
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egon
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Re: Using maganets to soften water?
[re: Rayko]
09/16/05 08:28 PM
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In reply to:
After refiewing all the posts listed for this topic. It appears that I am the ONLY one who has actually experimented with the idea and tried it out for himself. My comments in my original post accurately reflect our results.
Ah -ah ahh - when I still gainfully employed it was tried on a water cooling system for a fractionating plant. The before and after exchanger inspection reports were not encouraging.
By the way we have a magnetic hill up here. Park your car and it will coast uphill. Great tourist attraction!
Egon
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brent
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Re: Using maganets to soften water?
[re: GaryQWA]
09/16/05 11:36 PM
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I have been following this post and found it interesting .
I work at a powerplant that uses (thousands) of gallons of water a day, I am sure if was as easy to run the water thru magnets we would be using it soften the water for the 3 boilers we run. We use a lime system and zeolite and charcoal beads to reduce the hardness and impurities. Like someone mentioned before it is not the sodium that makes the water soft, it recharges the zeolite beads. For the last month we have been trial using a Reverse Osmosis system from G.E. that is a portable unit on a 40 ft trailer and a holding tank, it is working well. I talked to the G.E. rep and asked him about home based units and they do make them but they are costly.
Great thread.
Brent
Edited by brent (09/16/05 11:37 PM)
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egon
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Re: Using maganets to soften water?
[re: brent]
09/17/05 05:16 AM
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Brent:
We have a reverse osmosis system for the house. One tap only in the kitchen. It surely takes out the chlorine taste of the town treated water. One thing about these systems is that they require pretty good quality water going into them or they have a short lifespan.
When I was still employed part of the job was;
looking after three 50K D type gas fired boilers running at 150PSI. They were surely not state of the art by any means. Also had a cold lime softening/ clarification system for the raw river supply water for the cooling towers and the boiler zeolites.
Egon
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GaryM
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Re: Using maganets to soften water?
[re: egon]
09/17/05 09:40 PM
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Egon,
You're talking about the Magnetic Hill near Moncton, right? Been there twice. After the first trip the car was always wanting to head North, so had to go back to get it neutralized.
Gary
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Hey! Aren't you supposed to be working?
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Pat
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Loc: SouthCentral Oklahoma
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Re: Using maganets to soften water?
[re: GaryM]
09/17/05 10:04 PM
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Gary, You need more flinders bars. See also Matthew Flinders.
Now if we all just join hands and ummmmmmmmmmm. There, did that soften your water? Put three used razor blades, previously resharpened by temporary storage in a pyramid in a fishbowl containing a mixture of colostrum and wheat germ and place the bowl atop the water heater. This will surely sosften your water. I gotta go, reflecting on new age crap gives me indigestion.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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brent
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Re: Using maganets to soften water?
[re: Pat]
09/17/05 10:26 PM
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Pat Wrote:
In reply to:
Now if we all just join hands and ummmmmmmmmmm.
Did not make my water any softer, But made my knee stop hurting
Brent
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egon
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Re: Using maganets to soften water?
[re: GaryM]
09/18/05 04:36 AM
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Right on Gary.
With all the plastic and aluminum in vehicles these days the residual induced magnetism doesn't require Degaussing but some vehicles have problems with the electronic systems.
Egon
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GaryM
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Re: Using maganets to soften water?
[re: egon]
09/18/05 12:07 PM
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Egon,
I just realized that with my Prius Hybrid it would probably recharge the battery as the car was pulled back up the hill.
Gary
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Hey! Aren't you supposed to be working?
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egon
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Re: Using maganets to soften water?
[re: GaryM]
09/18/05 12:21 PM
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Don't let Pat know Gary. It might turn him Paranoid!
Egon
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GaryM
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Re: Using maganets to soften water?
[re: egon]
09/18/05 04:51 PM
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Pat would probably drive from Oklahoma to Moncton just to see if it would work.
Gary
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Hey! Aren't you supposed to be working?
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BlueRidge
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Re: Using maganets to soften water?
[re: Rayko]
09/18/05 10:14 PM
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In reply to:
I appreciate your kind and determined post. You are absolutely correct, as is Consumer Reports. "Magnets DO NOT soften the water".
Nor do they do anything else in controlled tests where the placebo effect is eliminated. It's been done many times, NOT just by Consumer reports (not that I would trust anything those people say), and magnets have always failed to show any results.
No doubt about it, placebo effects can be powerful.
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Pat
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Re: Using maganets to soften water?
[re: brent]
09/20/05 09:09 AM
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I'm sorry, disregard my previous vitriol, I mistakenly thought the topic was magnets. Had I realized we were discussing the effectivity of maganets I would have remained silent as I am not familiar with their use.
Spunk water, spunk water, injun shorts! Spunk water spunk water, swaller them warts!
(Tom and Huck in a graveyard at midnight...)
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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BlueRidge
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Re: Using maganets to soften water?
[re: Pat]
09/21/05 09:58 PM
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