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Deerlope
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Reged: 06/29/03
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Posts: 8
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Loc: Norwood, NY
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Hydro power
06/09/04 09:14 AM
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Have there been any or are there any going on now for homestead hydro power? I am in the proceed of building a weir in the stream that runs thru our property. We have about 40cfs flow but not a lot of drop. I am still researching and doing my home work.
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kensfarm
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Reged: 03/12/03
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Posts: 30
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I've done some research.. reading.. subscribed to HomePower for a year.. didn't renew. I have even looked at building my own ram-pump as well. When I get the time I'd like to set up some hydro power on the creek that runs through my property.. plenty of flow.. not a lot of drop. The one thing about hydro.. if you have the water.. it'll be 24hrs a day.. unlike solar or wind. I did buy an old water pumping windmill.. but haven't had the time or resources to drill a new well and put it up.
The problem is storage.. battery banks cost $ and time of upkeep. One alternative I've read about is using the excess electrity to create hydrogen instead of charging a battery bank.. then when the lights go out.. you use the hydrogen to run a generator.
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bobh
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Reged: 08/03/04
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Posts: 4
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Loc: Alberta, Canada
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Here is a good site for what your looking for.
Bob
http://www.otherpower.com/otherpowerfront.shtml
Takes a pretty big chicken to drag home a coyote!
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Pat
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Reged: 09/15/02
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Posts: 4904
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Loc: SouthCentral Oklahoma
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Ken, Please share with us the means by which all this hydrogen is stored while waiting to need it.
High head with low volume is better than high volume with low head. Either way I am envious of anyone having access to a continuoulsy runing water source.
 Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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kensfarm
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Re: Hydro power
[re: Pat]
08/24/04 12:37 PM
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That is the last piece of the puzzle to make it feasible and economical..
Hydrogen can be stored in a variety of ways, each with specific advantages and disadvantages. Listed below are the different storage methods available today in addition to some techniques that are still in the research and development stage.
Metal Hydride Tanks
Compressed Hydrogen
Liquid Hydrogen
Chemically Stored Hydrogen
Carbon nanotubes
Glass Microsphere
Liquid Carrier Storage
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BrianP
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Silver Member
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Reged: 09/19/02
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Posts: 139
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Loc: Ontario, Canada
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I don't know if your kidding about the hydrogen part of hydro, but just in case you are, check out the file "The Hydrogen Economy", written by an esteemed and highly regarded commentator (me  ). It is posted (without my permission) here
http://www.energyprobe.org/energyprobe/index.cfm?DSP=subcontent&AreaID=189
You don't have to read the whole thing. All you need to know/understand is in the first 5 pages.
You could also read 'The Hype About Hydrogen' which was, thankfully, published after my piece.
T'aint gonna happen.
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kensfarm
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Re: Hydro power
[re: BrianP]
08/27/04 04:07 PM
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I wasn't kidding.. just suggesting that there can be alternatives to storing the excess energy generated.. be it using hydrogen or another means.
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BrianP
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Silver Member
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Reged: 09/19/02
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Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Its just that hydrogen is like 10x the cost and much less efficient than just about any other storage mechanism you could find. A 1 KW hydrogen powered generator is around $10,000, and has a short life expectancy.
Generating electricity from hydrogen generated by electricity immediately would wast 50% of the power,optimistically (limited by physics), and if done on an undustrial scale, not counting the losses associated with storage (wich are something on the order of 15 to 30% optimistically.
Todays systems are even less efficient than that, especially on a small scale.
The hydrogen economy folk make loads of claims which don't stand up to analysis. In fact, they often just make stuff up.
On a small scale, batteries are probably the cheapest and most efficient was to go, despite their limitations.
Of course, one could always redirect extra power into, for example, heating water, which is cheap and hot water can be stored for a long time.
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Pat
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Loc: SouthCentral Oklahoma
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Re: Hydro power
[re: BrianP]
08/31/04 07:21 AM
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Pumping water uphill for use later in hydroelectric generation works better on a large scale than batteries if you just happen to have a conveniently located reservoir.
But really folks... HYDROGEN POWER? Come on! Hydrogen is so over. So passe! Nitrogen power is where it is at. Storing energy in nitrogen is the way to go. Higher energy density. Output is only N2 and energy. In use, nitrogen power does not mess with the relative humidity. There are a few developmental areas that need further work but I'm sure nitrogen power is just around the corner.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
Edited by Pat (08/31/04 07:45 AM)
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BrianP
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Silver Member
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Reged: 09/19/02
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Posts: 139
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Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Re: Hydro power
[re: Pat]
08/31/04 08:40 AM
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Don't lauch. I heard a fella on the radio talking about a car invented in France that works on compressed air. He was looking for an investor.
As for nitrogen - it'll never fly. First, its hard to light. Second, the oil companies will control the supply, and we know what they are like!
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DirtPoor
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Reged: 10/01/04
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Posts: 28
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Loc: Western Washington, USA
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I looked into this while living in a 3rd world country, years ago.
I no longer have any reference material but from a paper back book, from Mother Earth News (now, better known as Country Living for Yuppies), I remember some basic information that cause me to give up on the whole idea.
Two things you need, elevation and volume. I remember that 60 ft of head pressue was consider to be just sufficient for spinning a water turbine. The smallest turbine that was suggested required a 4" dia supply pipe. This was suppose to run small DC generator for battery charging or invertor convertion. Even with this the, power was in the 1 to 3 kw range. Similar to what you might get from the home wind generators.
I realize the water wheel worked with a head height of slightly higher than the wheel diameter, but as powerful as water wheel looks, a 10 ft diameter wheel might only generate 1 HP. (someone else can do the math). Gear reduction is where they gained their mechanical advantage.
For electrical generation you need at least 600 rpm (slowest diesel gen. I have seen). Forget AC generation unless you can spin it this fast and have a lot of speed and voltage control equipment.
Turbine design is very high tech and would be best purchased. These are available with some searching.
Just some of the reasons I never went forward with my day dreams.
Steve
"A good traveller has no fixed plans and is not intent on arriving" Lao Tzu
Edited by DirtPoor (10/18/04 07:31 PM)
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