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hard_yakka
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Reged: 06/03/03
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Loc: Oakland, OR
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Single well, multiple branch line installation
03/28/04 11:56 PM
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Folks,
We drilled 2 wells, 1 came up with 15gpm, the other 4.5gpm with the furthest from the house being the 15 gpm well.
Now, there is a barn that is 2000' away from the house with the 15gpm well being 800' from the barn. There is about 65' in elevation distance between the well head and house site, none for the barn. The pumping water line is at 150'. I want water at the barn for washing equipment, cleanup, fire, etc. So the lines will 'tee' about 30 feet away from the well head.
Using 3" PVC from the well to the house will remove any issue with flow line loss over length of run to the house.
I would like to have the pressure tank at the house.
So the first question is given there is a 65' elevation (meaning increased line pressure anywhere down hill, including the pump head and barn faucets) what would the pressure at the barm be and would that be to much? I think I read that there is 0.045 psi rise for every foot in elevation of source.
Or would it be best to run 2 pressure tanks/switches, 1 pair at the well head and 1 at the house. There would have to be check value on each line.
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egon
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Re: Single well, multiple branch line installation
[re: hard_yakka]
03/29/04 04:05 AM
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The static line pressure at the barn should be about 30 psi greater than at the house. [ .433 psi for one ft. ]
Given cutout pressure at the house is about 60Psi that would give 90 psi. at the barn. Increased barn pressure could be of benefit for the water uses there. Use piping rated for the pressures.
Don't know how the two tanks, two pressure switches and two check valve system could work??
Egon
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herbenus
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Re: Single well, multiple branch line installation
[re: hard_yakka]
03/30/04 08:31 AM
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I think you want a pressure switch and tank at the well. You don't want your pump to have to pump 2000 feet. A second tank at the barn and a third at the house is good. But why would you need a pressure switch here too? The tank here will draw off of the first tank as needed. The pressure switch on the first tank will kick in the well pump as needed.
If money is no option... You might want to consider a large static tank. Both pumps could fill it. Then you would have a pump in the static tank to pressure up a tank at the house and barn. This is more complicated, involving float switches etc., but discussed in some of the threads here.
My system has one well, one pressure switch, and three pressure tanks. The first tank tees off to a second tank that feeds only my outside uses. The other branch of that tee runs through a filter, then water softener, then the third tank that feeds the house.
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hard_yakka
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Loc: Oakland, OR
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Re: Single well, multiple branch line installation
[re: herbenus]
04/01/04 06:57 AM
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The barn is south 800 feet from the well, same elevation. The house 1200' northeast and with an additional 65' of elevation. Running 1.5" line to barn, 3" to house. I'm not sure how a pressure tank and switch at the well with it's additional 30psi (65' height) would work up at the house or the associated stress at the the well.
I've thought about the separate tank route, certainly more money, even thought about a lined pond 60x40. A lined pond of that size would have 143,000 gallons for the same cost of a 3000 gallon storage tank. We are going to do rainwater catchment off all the buidings anyway, should get another 40,000 gallons annually to add to pond. End up filtering one way or another.
Thanks for the replies..
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CJDave
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Re: Single well, multiple branch line installation
[re: hard_yakka]
04/02/04 07:00 PM
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 Dear Yak. There have been some good posts here with a minimum of misinformation. Generally, a problem like this is best solved by two-staging the system. Set the pumps with separate pressure tanks and switches by each one. Set the pressure switches such that they will operate in a range that takes good care of the barn. For the house, install a bladder tank which is fed by the wells, and then THAT TANK feeds a hydro-boost setup; which is just a small booster and it's own bladder tank and pressure switch.  So you have two well pumps and the house booster (which makes up the elevation difference). This is absolutely routine; especially in mountain subdivisions; I've done a lot of them.
CJDave
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egon
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Re: Single well, multiple branch line installation
[re: CJDave]
04/02/04 09:13 PM
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As I understood the post there was only one well being used. Is this correct?
In any case the booster pump would be a proper set up but may not be required.
Egon
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hard_yakka
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Re: Single well, multiple branch line installation
[re: egon]
04/04/04 10:06 AM
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Yes, I was only going to use the larger (gpm) well which is furthest from the house.
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egon
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Re: Single well, multiple branch line installation
[re: hard_yakka]
04/04/04 10:41 AM
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With the one well the wellhead pressure tank and booster pump would make a very good installation giving proper pressure at either end.
If freezing may be a problem and protection for the wellhead systems required Perhaps try with the one pressure tank at the house. I really don't think the 90 PSI at the barn would present a problem as the pipe you will be using will probably have a rating of 160psi. If necessary a regulator could be installed at the barn prior to any of the water outlets that will used for hozes.
Manny RV's use their own pressure regulator when tied into campground water.
Egon
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turnkey4099
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Re: Single well, multiple branch line installation
[re: egon]
04/11/04 08:45 AM
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Yep, the 90 psi could be a problem but correctable by a pressure regulator. As far as the tank location goes, it makes no difference if it is in the barn, the house or at the well. the system pressure will be the same. Without a booster pump at the house, the system will have to have a cut-off/on of 60/80 or 70/90 to have a 30/50 or 40/60 at the house. May be a bit of a strain on the pump (and fixtures at the low points).
Harry K
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CJDave
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Re: Single well, multiple branch line installation
[re: turnkey4099]
04/11/04 04:28 PM
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This is sort of why I hesitate to post to threads like this. It's like watching a bunch of people trying to invent a wheel and you just drove up in a Maserati.  I DOUBT if anyone would be very happy with a ninety-psi system pressure, and why pay for pressurizing it to that extent to begin with? The long distance from the well(s) to the home dictates that the best arrangement for smooth delivery is a tank at the well head (s) and a hydro-pheumatic booster at the user end. Yes, I KNOW it seems like more equipment at first, but it IS the correct solution, and will work out to be the lowest overall system HP input on a monthly basis. It is what I would insist that you buy if I was your water suppy guy, and I wanted you to have something that would do a good job for you and at the same time make me look like the ace water supply engineer that I am.
CJDave
Edited by CJDave (04/11/04 04:30 PM)
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egon
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Re: Single well, multiple branch line installation
[re: CJDave]
04/11/04 08:18 PM
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Somewhere down the line you have to produce 90 PSI. be it via one pump or multiple pumps of smaller incriments.
If I recall correctly the downhole pumps just stack more rotors for more pressure and add diameter to increase volume.
Egon
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CJDave
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Re: Single well, multiple branch line installation
[re: egon]
04/12/04 05:07 AM
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The difference is that you don't have to make the 90 PSI on ALL the water and then burn that pressure with a regulator at the lower level take-outs. Good hydraulic design maintains system pressures at the lowest possible levels for as long as possible to conserve horsepower. It's the "pressure zone" thing like they use in tall buildings, just on flatter, less extreme circumstances. I know that there is always a tendency to want to go to one large single unit for simplicity and lower first cost, but the long term effect of dealing with those kinds of pressures in a domestic water system is going to be negative. Yes.....they just add stages to the sub and use a bigger motor. The PROBLEM is that a unit like that wants to overpump terribly at lower-than-design pressures and in certain bowl/impeller combinations, upthrust from the impellers at high-flow-low-pressures can be problematic if you happen to be pumping a lot of volume at the lower take-outs. Sooooo....you need a flow control valve....another maintenance item......to prevent upthrust. It just gets to be more and more of a problem to go the single pump route.
CJDave
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CarlUman
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Re: Single well, multiple branch line installation
[re: CJDave]
06/22/04 11:16 AM
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Sounds like JCDave knows what he is talking about to me. Sort of like the Tortoise and the Hare.
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Pat
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Re: Single well, multiple branch line installation
[re: CarlUman]
06/25/04 10:00 PM
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If I'm not too late to chime in... I used to have some ideas as regards the engineering of water systems being a trained physicist and all... Then I talked to a lady at the company that built my submerged well pump and got a fast lesson in practicality as regards multiple pressure tanks and their locations.
I suggest you do something similar prior to desiging and building something that might be well intended but suboptimal in actual performance and longevity.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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