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nomolos1
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Reged: 01/04/04
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Loc: Okeechobee, Florida
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Water preasure
01/04/04 01:07 PM
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I just purchased a small farm in Okeechobee Florida. I've been fooling around with the water softener to see if I can get the smell out of the water. I think I did it. (cleaned the airator (what a mess) Now the the next problem is the preasure. I pumped more air into the preasure tanks but not much difference. Any Ideals would be helpful. 
A house,truck, and 4 acers, let the farming begain
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BrianP
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Re: Water preasure
[re: nomolos1]
01/05/04 12:33 PM
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It could be a bunch of things.
First it may be that there is an inline filter that happens to be blocked up. Thats what got me in my first well fed house.
Second do you have a pressure guage on the tank? If so, see at which point the pump turns on and off. Are these acceptable? I think mine are at about 30 and 50 psi. If not, then adjust them. If you can't adjust them, maybe you have to replace the switch.
How much water can you drawn after the pump switches off until it switches on again? Is it possible your tank is 'drowned' (i.e. if you have an old style tank without a bladder). With these, when you add air, you generally open the water, add air till it stops bubbling (so the water level is below the air valve) and them close the water and add air until you are up to pressure.
Finally you may have a partly closed valve or blocked pipe.
Let us know.
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nomolos1
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Loc: Okeechobee, Florida
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Re: Water preasure
[re: BrianP]
01/05/04 07:23 PM
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Thank you for the information. 
A house,truck, and 4 acers, let the farming begain
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rozett
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Re: Water preasure
[re: nomolos1]
01/06/04 08:53 PM
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My system has a pressure regulator attached to the tank that turns the pump on/off as required. Taking the cover off reveals two pressure adjustments. One will raise/lower both the on and off pressure for the pump. The second adjustment raises just the off pressure. Increasing the first adjustment will raise the average water pressure in the house. Increasing the second adjustment will increase the variation in pressure that you will notice before the pump comes back on.
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llewellynsd
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Re: Water preasure
[re: rozett]
01/07/04 11:42 AM
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Help here folks,
My system has the well of course (300 feet deep) with the submersible pump. The line then comes into the house and has a pressure gauge on it with a shut off valve. It then tees to a pressure tank or I guess a blatter tank, then a softner and then on through the house.
I have notice a significant decrease in water pressure since the house was built in 1997. Some of that may have to do with the water softner I installed but even since that was installed it has decreased.
The well driller had me check the pressure tank it see if it seems heavy. If I was unable to move it effortlessly by slightly rocking it back and forward then the blatter was ok and did not have a hole in it. That only leads me to believe that the softner is my problem. I did check the pressure on the tank with a tire gauge and it gave me 35 psi.
I activated a bypass valve last evening while the wife was running a tub and she said with the bypass valve on the water pressure atleast doubled.
I've totally cleaned all the little centrifuge screens on the softner and still can't figure out why my pressure is so low. Any ideas? Like I said when I first installed the softner we did not notice any decrease in pressure - I guess it has been so gradual that now we are finally starting to notice. Especally when two spickets are in use.
One other thing, I was going to install an in-line filter on the main line prior to the softner to catch any little particals that may plug the screens but now I'm second guessing that move in fear that it will further reduce the water pressure.
Any ideas?
Thanks Shawn
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fivestring
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"I was going to install an in-line filter on the main line prior to the softner to catch any little particals that may plug the screens..."
I have an inline filter but it is after the tank. It looks like one of the "under-the-sink" units but it filters the whole house, outside faucets and all. Each charcoal filter lasts about 2 months before I notice a decrease in pressure, which reminds me to change the filter. It is not hard to change filters, it's just going under the house to get to it that I hate.
By all means, get a filter but be sure to change it regularly.
Gary
Bluegrass Music ...
Finger-pickin' good!
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egon
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The zeolite beds in the water softener may be caked and plugged. Talk to the supplier of the unit and find out how to service it or loosen up the bed. There may also be piping and valves which have become restricted by carryover beads.
I would say a little more but it is very easy to flush the bed away if not done properly.
Egon
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llewellynsd
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Re: Water preasure
[re: egon]
01/07/04 01:23 PM
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Egon,
The softner I installed is from Sears. So I guess I'll try to find someone there knowledgable of softners which may be tuff. They usually don't know intricate stuff such as you have mentioned just enough to sell one but I guess it would not hurt to ask.
Feel free to expand on your previous post. To clean the beds would one have to totally empty the softner of the salt. I only use Mortans pellitized salt in which the manufacture recommended.
Shawn
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herbenus
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Sears has a "Water Line" you can call with very knowledgeable people at the other end. I haven't used it in a few years but here's the number: 800-426-9345. Something I did was to install a small pressure tank after the water softener. This gives me a more constant pressure inside.
And here's the website http://kenmorewater.com/customer-assist/customer-assistance.html
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llewellynsd
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Re: Water preasure
[re: herbenus]
01/09/04 11:21 AM
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Herbenus,
I called the Sears hotline and the lady recommended that I run a clearner through the softner. I did it and it helped a bit on the pressure problem. Thanks for the suggestion.
The cleaner I used was a white powder that smelled like sulfur and had some serious cautions on the lable and I was sort of aprehensive about running it throughh my softner. I guess it gets all flushed out - do you know? Don't want to endanger my family.
Do you think an addition pressure tank on the out going side of the softner would help increase pressure to the sinks, etc?
Shawn
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GaryM
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The pressure on the output of the tank can't be higher than the input pressure. I'm assuming you thinking of an accumulator such as you already have.
Gary
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Hey! Aren't you supposed to be working?
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llewellynsd
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Re: Water preasure
[re: GaryM]
01/09/04 11:40 AM
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Gary,
What you wrote make sense. I though somewhere in this post or maybe another someone wrote they installed or recommended a pressure tank after the softner in addition to the one before but I may have been mistaken. I guess the only way to increase pressure is to run the treated water thru another pump - which I'm not considering.
What should the pressure be on this tank? I put a tire gauge on the valve and it showed 35 PSI. I know that typical pressure for residential is 40 PSI. Can I add air to this tank with a pump? By adding air will that help increase pressure?
Shawn
Edited by llewellynsd (01/09/04 11:41 AM)
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egon
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A post softener pressure tank will end up at the same pressure as a pre softener pressure tank when the system stabilizes. As soon as you start using water the post pressure may drop according to the pressure drop across the filter. You can add air to the tank.
Egon
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herbenus
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I'm the one that has a pressure tank after softener. It has helped tremendously. No it will not have a higher pressure than before the softener. But you must clarify this. It will not have a higher pressure than the highest pressure going into it. At times of no or low water flow, the tank will fill and the pressure will be the same everywhere and that pressure will be the pump pressure (at surface). (I know that tank precharge settings enter this but I'm trying not to overcomplicate.) And you'll have a whole tankful of water at that pressure ready to gush into the house without being restricted by softener, filter, etc. Let's say your pump puts out 40 psi, then you'll have 40 psi in this tank. But without the tank, when you turn on the shower . That 40 psi coming from your main tank is reduced by whatever pressure drop that restrictions like softeners and filters put on the line. Maybe 5 psi at high flow. Maybe more if filters are dirty. The secondary tank helps buffer this pressure drop. Of course, after a while the tank supply is robbed and you'll have the same situation as if you didn't have the second tank. But hopefully you're through with your shower by then... I know it's made a big difference for us. I've been tempted to put one of the really small tanks as a third tank under the bathroom sink. To give me a supply close to the need. Someone used the term accumulator. Though not completely correct, a pressure tank does indeed act as an accumulator. And when the electricity shuts off, it is more usable water.
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herbenus
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I had a Water Boss once. They had me clean it with something called "Iron Out" I think. It's used for, among other things, removing iron stains. It's probably the same stuff. Definitely flush it as much or more than they recommend. But you'll be okay.
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llewellynsd
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Re: Water preasure
[re: herbenus]
01/09/04 02:44 PM
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Thanks Guys,
I'll sit back and observe awhile and if I become unhappy I'll hook up my Honda pressure washer and pump 2500 psi out the shower head. Hey just think of the savings in soap. 
Shawn
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GaryM
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Re: Water pressure
[re: herbenus]
01/09/04 03:00 PM
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You're right! I had not considered that the downstream tank could make up for the softener's restriction. For a while at least.
Gary
----------------------------------------------
Hey! Aren't you supposed to be working?
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nomolos1
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Loc: Okeechobee, Florida
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Re: Water preasure
[re: nomolos1]
01/12/04 03:49 PM
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I lookked at my pumps, and it seems as if they are a little worn. I think I'll be in the market to get a couple of new ones. I currently have 1/2 HP pumps, Should I go with higher powered pumps? If so, How much larger?
By the way thanks for all the information, it seems as if a few others are being helped out also.
A house,truck, and 4 acers, let the farming begain
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Re: Water preasure
[re: nomolos1]
11/21/04 10:22 PM
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MY PUMP KICKS ON AND OFF LIKE EVERY TWO SECONDS WHEN I RUN WATER MY PUMP RUNS TO A BLATTER TANK THEN TO A SOFTER THEN THROUGH A FILTER THE SOFTNER IS ONLY THREE MONTHS OLD HOW MUCH AIR SHOULD BE IN THE BLATTER TANK INFO ON THIS WOULD BE VERY HELP FUL THANKS
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DocHeb
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Ohio Pure Water has much information about this matter.
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Pat
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Re: Water preasure
[re: DocHeb]
11/23/04 02:09 PM
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If a filter is placed upstream of your accumulator tank it will not restrict pressure of the delivered water to the house until after the water has run for a while like a long shower or filling a Jacuzzi tub or other uses which would require protracted pump run times.. Filling a cooking pot, washing hands, and other low volume uses will all enjoy good pressure and flow rates. A larger (or additional accumulator tank in parallel with the first) will give longer water use times at high pressure and high flows before too much loss of pressure is noticed.
If you have a low flow (energy conservation type) shower nozzle then even long showers might not give low pressures. Might consider more pumping power in the well pump. I should think 3/4 or 1 HP should be sufficient.
Note to GaryM: Think of filters as resistors and accumulator tanks as capacitors.
 Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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egon
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Re: Water preasure
[re: Pat]
11/24/04 06:52 AM
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Pat:
Think of filters as resistors and accumulator tanks as capacitors.
Brings back bad memories of all those non understood decay equations and matrixes.
Egon
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Pat
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Re: Water preasure
[re: egon]
11/24/04 08:45 AM
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HUH? What has this to do with dentistry or Keanu Reeves movies?
Pat
P.S. e ** -tRC to you buddy!
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
Edited by Pat (11/24/04 08:58 AM)
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turnkey4099
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There have been so many different questions here it was hard to figure where to butt in.
On any well system with problems. Start with the basics - the pump and pressure tank. Get that working right and then proceed.
On the subject of air in tanks and pressure:
The standard setting of residential systems is one of three
20-40
30-50
40-60
Note that it is always 20psi from pump cut-in/cut-out. Get your pressure set adjusted to one of them. 20-40 is not very satisfactory. 30-50 will not give a needle shower at the 30 psi.
40-60 is max recommended for residential as over that causes undue wear on fixtures.
How much air in the tank (the pre-charge)? Always approximately 2 psi below the cut-in.
Important to understanding pressure tank systems:
The Pre-charge ONLY controls how often the pump cuts in/out. It has absolutely no effect on delivered pressure. Thus if you have a low pressure problem it will NOT be due to the precharge.
To illustrate:
Switch at 30/50:
Pre-charge 28: Water is exiting tank at 30 psi at the point pump starts.
Pre-charge 15: Water still exits tank at 30 psi at pump start.
There will be less drawdown and more pump starts at any pre-charge setting other than the optimum (2psi below cut-in)
The pre-charge is only a spring that is compressed by the pump.
With the tank/pump operating correctly any pressure problems will be in plumbing downstream of the tank, plugged up filters is the prime suspect.
Harry K
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