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jwstewar
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Engine Block Heater
01/19/03 09:41 PM
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My '99 Silverado w/ 5.3 liter gas has an engine block heater. It was supposed to be around 0 (that is cold around here) so I decided to use the block heater. Didn't notice it when I had used this in the past, but whenever I plug it in to the outlet on my outside electric pole it kicks the GFI. I know (or at least think) the GFI is good because I used it at Christmas for lights. I moved the cord over to the outlet in the shed that isn't GFI and it seems to be working and it hasn't kicked the breaker. Is this common for block heaters to kick a GFI outlet?
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egon
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Re: Engine Block Heater
[re: jwstewar]
01/19/03 10:15 PM
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I'd check the cords and clean the plug in contacts. It should not kick out the ground fault protecter.
Egon
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Re: Engine Block Heater
[re: jwstewar]
01/20/03 03:23 PM
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My block heater will kick out a GFI. bcs
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beenthere
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Re: Engine Block Heater
[re: jwstewar]
01/20/03 04:54 PM
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I would suspect there is something wrong with the block heater if it kicks out the GFI. Maybe not much, but enough of an imbalance (indicating a short to ground) between the neutral and hot line that the Ground Fault Interupter says "No", something is wrong". That doesn't mean that it will blow a circuit breaker, it just means not enough load is being shorted to ground to blow the breaker.
What this problem may mean is that you could get a "tickle" (small or BIG) if you become the connection between a better ground and the vehicle that the block heater is plugged into, and the GFI is your lifeline.
 
Edited by beenthere (01/20/03 04:57 PM)
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wingnut
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Re: Engine Block Heater
[re: jwstewar]
01/21/03 08:36 AM
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I would suggest that you check on the rating of that GFI circuit and on the other circuit. GFI's are not at all tolerant of excess draw ... while most circuit breakers are pretty forgiving ... which is why GFI's are around!
Block heaters draw a fair current ... I vaguely remember the last one I installed was 1500W ... so it just may be that draw is too much for the GFI to ignore.
it's a shame that common sense isn't
http://www.dahlhausminiatures.com
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beenthere
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Re: Engine Block Heater
[re: wingnut]
01/21/03 02:53 PM
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Your comments puzzle me, and don't fit with my experience and knowledge of a GFI. If there is no imbalance between the neutral and hot wires from a load, then the GFI should continue to function regardless of the load. The GFI should take more clean load than a circuit breaker will take. I.E. a GFI does not take the place of a circuit breaker. But that isn't how you described it. 
I will yield to anyone who can straighten me out as to why a GFI is less forgiving than a circuit breaker, given that both GFI and breaker are correctly installed and rated for the load.
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Argee
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Re: Engine Block Heater
[re: beenthere]
01/21/03 03:22 PM
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I can add this. Installed some outlets in a GFCI circuit once and when I hooked the power back up it kept popping the ground fault. I traced it down to one of the neutrals making contact with a ground wire in one of the boxes.....Moved them apart and I was back in business....Now for the part I have never figured out.....in the panel, the neutrals and the grounds went on the same bar!! Now answer this, why was it popping the ground fault when they were touching in the box?
Argee 
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beenthere
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Re: Engine Block Heater
[re: Argee]
01/21/03 04:03 PM
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I suspect the box where you found the ground and the neutral touching was on the "load" side of the GFI. That would do it. If they were found touching on the "line" side of the GFI, I can't imagine how it could happen.
The GFI only senses the "load" side for any imballance between the neutral and the hot. That is why you can touch the hot on the load side, and trip the GFI. Don't try that on the "line" side. 
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crawdad
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Re: Engine Block Heater
[re: beenthere]
01/21/03 09:46 PM
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i would suspect that you have another appliance or load on the same circuit.
when the truck is plugged in w/the other load on that circuit it trips it.
this happens to me all the time when i am plugged into my 15A GFI and the compressor kicks in.
or i plug the battery charger in,it trips the breaker.
nothing wrong with anything, except too much of a load.
the breakers doing its job.
in your case it may be different......but see what else is on that circuit.
or put in a new GFI they do go south occasionally.
i plug my gas and my diesel in every night when its below 40 deg.
yea,everyone says why? i say why not.costs next to nothing a day.
truck starts nice and easy,instant heat,less wear,some friends are proud that they never "have to"
plug their trucks in and i get my b***s broken all the time. so what
good luck and stay warm
scott
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wingnut
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Re: Engine Block Heater
[re: beenthere]
01/22/03 09:49 AM
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although I work with electrical components on a "spare part" basis all the time ... I won't pretend to be an electrical "expert" .... my suggestion was based on my experiences - to-date - with GFI circuits in hazardous locations (pool, etc). GFI's are built to much more exacting specs than standard breakers and will react faster (and be less forgiving) than a regular breaker. Sort of like a fuse vs. a fast-blo fuse.
Having grown up with block heaters ... I'm more than a little familiar with resetting breakers. At work in Alberta, we had constant problems with the breakers for the parking lot circuits ... since too many people added an in-car heater so they could start up and drive away ... and regular circuits wouldn't handle the load of block and in-car.
YMMV
it's a shame that common sense isn't
http://www.dahlhausminiatures.com
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wingnut
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Re: Engine Block Heater
[re: crawdad]
01/22/03 09:52 AM
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I've never plugged my Sienna in, but I usually keep the truck plugged in all the time since that darned old Texas 350 doesn't like to start when it's colder than 150 degrees. But I save electricity by having a temp cord on the line. The utility company sold those years ago for small change ... to cut down on electricity use. The temp cord has a temp sensor and will turn off the current when the water temp goes high enough (you ziptie it to the rad hose)
it's a shame that common sense isn't
http://www.dahlhausminiatures.com
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jwstewar
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Re: Engine Block Heater
[re: crawdad]
01/22/03 01:48 PM
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This is the only outlet on this circuit as it is outside on my disconnect pole and the truck is the only thing plugged in. The outlet is only about 2 or 3 years old. I guess since it is outside (in an outside box) is supposedly protected, but I guess the actual wire could be corroding a little bit. Is that a possibility?
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Inspector507
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Re: Engine Block Heater
[re: jwstewar]
01/22/03 06:55 PM
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Is it a GFI outlet or a GFI breaker?
If it's a breaker type, then an irregularities in the wire will kick it off. It's an outlet type, it doesn't matter much the condition of the wire feeding it.
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jwstewar
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It is the outlet type. Haven't messed w/ it anymore. Have just left the truck plugged into the one in the shed. I'm wondering if maybe I had snow in one of the holes in the extension cord. Too cold (obviosly that is why I need the heater  )right now to be out there messing around w/ it. Supposed to be -5 tonight w/ -15 - -20 wind chill. Too cold for me to be out messing around w/ something when there is a work around for now.
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Inspector507
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Re: Engine Block Heater
[re: jwstewar]
01/23/03 05:54 PM
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GFI outlets lose some of their sensitivity over time, especially if they have repeatedly been tripped. Keep in mind the GFI outlet has NOTHING to sense an overload, so we "know" that is not the problem. I installed quite a few that were so sensitive, no matter what you plugged in it, it would trip out. And I've seen the ones that would not trip no matter what you plugged into it. I had one on my pool pump that tripped as soon as the motor was plugged in. I tested everything, nothing at all was wrong. It just would not work with that pump. I have been looking for a new pump this winter. Hope that makes it safer.
For now, I guess just keep it plugged into the shed outlet. Maybe replace the GFI, they're only $6 or so at the box stores.
But you're right, at -5 there's no sense in doing it tonight.
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jwstewar
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I had kinda forgotten about this thread until a little while ago and it came up on google. I didn't get around to looking at the problem any more until spring, but then the culprit came out. Nothing would work in the outlet. Couldn't even reset the GFI. I replaced the outlet. Plugged the truck in for the first time since the replacement and it didn't kick the GFI. Now I have another problem.
I told someone, she shall remain nameless  , that I had plugged the truck in and ran a cord to the tractor but I didn't plug the tractor in. When I came home last night I started to plug the truck in again. Couldn't find the plug on the truck. Found the extension, but not the truck piece. I asked her if she unplugged the truck. Deer in the headlight look, uhoh, no.
Looked around a little bit for the cord couldn't find it. I figure as she was back it it kept pulling until all of the cord that normally I kept up in the truck was pull clear out front and it finally came unplugged from the ext. cord. Now when she back out of the driveway and started to go forward it probably got back under the tire and jerked the cord out.
Now here is the problem, well other than trying to find the thing down there where GM buried it, but do you guys think it is hurt? What I mean is do you think it'll be OK leaving that in the truck until spring before I replace it? I'm worried that something maybe broken and be loose and allow the antifreeze to come out. How big of deal do you think it'll be to get out?
Always gotta be something to keep it interesting.....
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Inspector507
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Re: Engine Block Heater
[re: jwstewar]
01/24/04 08:52 AM
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Jim,
Some of those block heaters have a cord that plugs into the heater itself. They can be removed. What I hope happened when M.......err nameless person backed out, the cord on the heater became unplugged from the ext cord. Then as you suspect the tire rolled over the cord on the heater and pulled it loose. If you're not noticing any drips under the truck and coolant level is not low, you should be ok til spring.
Jerry
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jwstewar
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I was visiting a buddy that runs a garage on Saturday and he said bring the truck in last night and we would take a look at it. After we crawled under the truck, it wasn't too bad to fix it, I lucked out. GM must have been expecting that to happen. There was a clamp around the wire that kept it from actually pulling on the heater itself at the block. It broke the wire, but it had enough attached that we were able to splice on to it with extension cord I had. Would've said old cord, but it wasn't that old. It was my trouble light cord left from when the dog decided she didn't want heat last year and ate my trouble light. Poor dog, I don't know how many lives she has, but I know that she has used 2 of them...
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Inspector507
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Re: Engine Block Heater
[re: jwstewar]
01/27/04 10:31 AM
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Jim,
Glad it was that easy to repair.
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