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eccentricfarmer
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toy prius
07/15/08 12:31 PM
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I see next years prius will have the A/C run by a solar cell on the roof. Claiming 2-5 kilowatts.  Not sure if that was misprint or not but that seems like an awful lot of wattage from that small of a cell. A few more like that and you could run a whole house!! 
No fun, change the rules!!!
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CJDave
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 Parasitic loads have historically been the bugaboo when it comes to getting super-duper fuel mileage, since even a small car air conditioning system decreases the mileage by at least three miles to the gallon. So let's see here..... 2-5 Kw is 2000-2500 watts....divide by 746.....that's 2.6 to 3.3 horsepower; barely enough to run an air conditioner while stuck in traffic on a hot day in Dallas. I say "barely", but it WOULD do it if there was any kind of surge reservoir. Getting parasitic loads off of the engine is an important step toward making a gallon of fuel go farther.
CJDave
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Bird
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Re: toy prius
[re: CJDave]
07/15/08 07:27 PM
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In reply to:
while stuck in traffic on a hot day in Dallas.
I've sure been there many times.  Of course both out 2001 Ford Windstar with a 3.8L V-6 and our 2001 Ford Ranger with a 4.0L V-6 have air-conditioning, and yes, my mileage goes down in the summer. But at least I hardly notice the difference in driving them. But I've driven a couple of the real high gas mileage cars with the little engines and when the compressor kicked in, it was almost like I'd hit the brakes. In the past we had a 1993 and a 1999 Ford Escort and while it wasn't as drastic, I could sure feel it when the compressors kicked on. However, if I was driving with the cruise control set, it would react so fast that you'd never feel the compressor kicking on or off.
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CJDave
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Re: toy prius
[re: Bird]
07/16/08 05:14 AM
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The Ferd Family of Fine Cars has stubbornly used the York compressor for many, many years despite the somewhat noticeable "bump" when the clutch on the compressor engaged. The newer, rotary designs and especially the teeny weeny rotaries are way less obtrusive when they "kick in". I put air in my '67 MGB just after I bought it and what I did was put a two-groove Yorkie where the generator once was and then mounted the generator on the outside of that York. I satellite drove the generator with a second belt off the second groove of that York. The rotating mass of the generator helped overcome the inertia of the York crankshaft and other heavy parts and made engagement less noticeable. The A/C reduced the mileage on my MG from 29 to 26, but in FRESNO CA, it wasn't a choice, but an absolute necessity. 
CJDave
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Pat
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Re: toy prius
[re: CJDave]
07/18/08 04:03 PM
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Been driving a Prius since '04 and have yet to feel the A/C engage or disengage BECAUSE... it is electrically driven and therefore not clutched to the engine via belts. The Prius typically (most of the time) shuts the engine off as you decelerate and leaves it off when stopped and restarts it when you place enough demand via the throttle to have the computer program decide you need the ICE running. If you sit stopped long enough to run the battery down with the A/C (like when you dash into the store to get something leaving your wife and a couple friends in the hot sun in the parked car) then the engine starts and the big dynamo charges the batts until the car is "happy" and shuts off again. It will cycle indefinitely burning only the minimum gas required to make enough electricity to run the A/C.
I have no info available from Toyota that they are involved with putting PV on Prius roofs. So far as IU have read (Pop Mech etc) it is a GREEN feel good thing with a payback like 30 years or more (A prius might last 30 years but...) Private individuals have done it. I don't expect to see much more than a single HP coming out of that arrangement. On a good solar day you might substantially alter the duty cycle of the ICE running to keep the A/C going while parked. Maybe with really good cells and terrific insolation (NOT INSULATION) you might get a mile per gal or so better mileage in the right speed envelope.
Here is a web site (Auto Blog) claiming the 2010 Prius will have a PV enhanced option for the Prius.
http://www.outbrain.com/network/postfr.jsp?post=http://www.autoblog.com/2008/07/07/solar-panels-to-power-accessories-on-next-toyota-prius/&agent=blog_JS_rec
I'm skeptical regarding the high KW claimed for the PV. Maybe in outer space as close to the sun as Mercury. We'll see. I'd be thrilled to see a breakeven on meaningful PV enhancement of less than 5 years.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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GaryM
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Re: toy prius
[re: Pat]
08/12/08 01:58 PM
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Pat,
I have a deposit down on a 2010 Prius to replace my '04. I'll let you know as I get further information. I had the chance to sit in an '08 at lunch today. No difference from my '04, but I did notice minor changes in the speed display and the MFD.
Gary
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Hey! Aren't you supposed to be working?
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Pat
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Re: toy prius
[re: GaryM]
08/13/08 09:04 AM
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We are up to 35,000 miles on our '04 and are still just loving it. We don't trade in cars that we like until there is a good reason and this car is still just great.
If technology doesn't leapfrog the Prius (assuming Prius will not change basic technology) we will be ready for a new one in 6-10 years. Who knows by the time our Prius needs replaced just what the dominant technology will be.
Everyone is getting on the band wagon, either offering a Hybrid or offering glitzy TV spots about nifty cars that are just around the corner without saying how far it is to the corner. I think Prius is still clearly the front runner in hybrids.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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GaryM
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Re: toy prius
[re: Pat]
08/13/08 09:51 AM
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I've got over 160K on mine. I figure by the time the 2010's are out it will be close to 190K or better. And the air in the tires is getting stale!
Gary
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Hey! Aren't you supposed to be working?
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Bird
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Re: toy prius
[re: GaryM]
08/13/08 11:50 AM
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In reply to:
And the air in the tires is getting stale!
Gary, when I was a teenager in my dad's service station, I actually had a woman come in one day for an oil change and asked me to change the air in her tires.
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eccentricfarmer
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Re: toy prius
[re: Bird]
08/13/08 02:17 PM
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Wish i could remember where i read about the PV on the Toy, but have that CRS disease once in a while.
On the subject of green, guy in florida starting to grow his own diesel, nuts on a tree. So with a diesel T P could be self fueling? I am sure a small diesel would not like on and off starting like a gas engine(?)
Seems like the next big deal will be the wafers of batteries for more dischage and ease of charging with out the heat.
No fun, change the rules!!!
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CJDave
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Re: toy prius
[re: Bird]
08/13/08 06:03 PM
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That business about changing the air isn't as whacked out as it might seem. I knew a guy who had large earthmoving equipment; back in the days when tires all had tubes in them; and his MO was to run NITROGEN in his tires because he thought it was better for the rubber long term....a more inert gas than just regular air. Later on, a vacuum cleaner guru showed me how to use a vacuum to change the air in the couch cushions so the foam rubber would not deteriorate over time. You place the cushion in a garbage can bag; stick the vacuum cleaner hose inside and run the vacuum till the bag and the cushion are flat, then break the vacuum, and let the cushion recover, then do it two more times.
CJDave
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Pat
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Re: toy prius
[re: GaryM]
08/14/08 07:44 AM
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Do you get a lot of spurious comments/questions about the cost/life of the "traction" battery. I do. Everyone (uninformed/misinformed non-owners) seems to think it is a huge maint problem. Except for the dealer cleaning the terminals and greasing them IAW a Toyota directive, We have had no service work on the battery. Gee, we've used up over 1/3 of our battery warranty. In another 6-10 years it will be out of warranty. Oh my!
I realize the battery could slowly degrade but... I haven't noticed a loss of performance.
How about you, Gary?
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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CJDave
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Re: toy prius
[re: Pat]
08/14/08 04:44 PM
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Is that a lead-acid battery, Pat?
CJDave
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Pat
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Re: toy prius
[re: CJDave]
08/16/08 06:20 AM
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Sorry, Dave, I could have been more explicit. The Prius has two batteries. (Yup, countem, TWO!
The one is a modestly sized more or less standard automotive lead acid 12 volt battery (could it be deep cycle? HMMMMM) It is used for running all the 12 volt stuff like interior lights the HID headlamps, sound system, cigar lighter, power outlets, horn, etc. It does not run the starter motor and the car does not have a conventional starter motor.
The OTHER battery is the "traction battery" and is the "toilet tank" style storage you "flush" when you need some serious assistance to the ICE or you are requesting so little acceleration demand (via the drive-by-wire system) that the computer decides to run the car on battery only. This traction battery is organized in modules (groups of cells) so modules are the smallest part to change out if a cell should go bad, not the whole battery. This traction battery is NOT lead acid chemistry and is not a routine maint item as it has no provision for "topping off" or the like. It is more like a collection of INDUSTRIAL STRENGTH rechargeable flashlight batteries.
Toyota is pretty close mouthed about the battery.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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GaryM
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Re: toy prius
[re: Pat]
08/19/08 10:19 AM
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I get the occasional question about the traction battery. I tell them that replacing the complete battery is pretty rare. I visit Priusonline once in a while and don't recall ever seeing a post about complete replacement. I certainly could have missed it though.
At the last oil change I requested that the specifically inspect and check the 12 volt auxiliary battery and they pronounced it in fine shape.
Gary
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Hey! Aren't you supposed to be working?
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eccentricfarmer
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Re: toy prius
[re: GaryM]
08/19/08 02:08 PM
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I heard NASCAR runs nitrogen to even out the heat issues in the tire.
Vacuuming behind the cushions can be a real chore much less trying to clean out the garbage can to put the cushion in!! Real men do not use garbage bags, they have burn barrels!!
No fun, change the rules!!!
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CJDave
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 About four years ago I built a forced-draft garbage burner which has an open-top fifty-gallon barrel as a "core", and a two-thirds barrel with both ends open as a "stack". The lower barrel has a sleeve around it that is made from the drum of a clothes dryer. The sleeve is pressurized by a squirrel cage blower that I rescued from a junked furnace. The lower barrel has louvers cut into it such that the entering air is caused to rotate. I load it full to the gills with garbage and get a little fire started then flip the timer to about thirty-five minutes. The blower causes such a tornado in there that it almost scares me sometimes. Phone books,.... no problem, ...catalogs, ...you bet! We can go for about seven months before I have to remove the lower barrel and dump it out. 
CJDave
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jimbrown
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EEEEKKKKK A burn barrel here in Cochise county will get you about every type of law enforcement officer in the state standing in your front door with a warrant for your arrest in about ten seconds after you light the first match.
Dave how in the heck do you keep that thing from spewing hot fragments all over half the county? I can just see the state giving me the bill for fighting a 10,000 acre fire.
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Pat
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Re: toy prius
[re: CJDave]
08/20/08 04:20 PM
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Dave, How about pix or drawings? I was thinking of building a multi barrel stack with a spark arrestor on top(natural aspiration) but can add a blower so it will do phone books, catalogs, etc. I have a stainless steel washer basket. They make good portable "fire rings" for beach or desert.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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CJDave
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Re: toy prius
[re: Pat]
08/20/08 05:00 PM
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OK, .... I have this new computer and all the trimmings, and a digital camera to go with it, so I'll see if I can figure out how to do this. I have to learn sooner or later. YES.... we do have quite a blast coming out of the stack of our burner, and it does produce some sparks but here in Iowa everything is green, green, green so grassfires are not a problem.  They even have burn barrels in the cities and boy is THAT ever a hot button issue!  People in Iowa just hate any kind of regulation and it shows.  We lose house after house from electrical fires because of no code compliance. For our burner, we use old refrigerator shelves as a top cover. I use two refrigerator shelves set crosswise to each other. There is an unlimited supply of refrigerator shelves in the junk trade-in refrigerator pile behind Lem's Appliance store in a nearby town. So you can see what a great recycler I am.... used oil drums, used refrigerator parts, used furnace parts. I should get a Nobel award like Albert Gore did for dreaming up global warming. 
CJDave
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eccentricfarmer
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Re: toy prius
[re: CJDave]
08/23/08 03:03 PM
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I wanna go to iowa, and i thought the best thing out of there was I90!! Sounds like the precursor to a turbine jet engine with garbage as a fuel source!!
Any idea how expensive it is to get rid of old tires stacked up and saved like previous owner was going to corner the rubber market!!! Implement/farm tires seem to have more carbon black in them than regular car tires and burn very hot!! But i just cannot remember where i found that out
No fun, change the rules!!!
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CJDave
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I'm from the west coast, and a few years ago an energy outfit built a plant that burned tires for fuel. An enterprising sheepherder had already filled a dry canyon full of several million tires which he had arranged to sell to them for fuel. At one point the tires caught on fire and of course all the blow-hard politicians got involved in adding to the dire predictions that the pile would burn for two to ten years. It did take a week or two to finally get the fire out. They were grinding the tires and belt-feeding the plant. I don't know if it is still running or not.
CJDave
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