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chevdog
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Paint Sprayer Recommendation?
12/10/02 07:28 AM
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I will be doing a fair amount of finish-out work inside our new barn/shop and I want to be able to spray regular latex paint. Don't know whether one of the Wagner painters is OK for this or if I should look towards a sprayer to use with my air compressor. Whatever I use, the least fuss to thin paint, setup, etc, the better.
Suggestions please - thanks!
Nick
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Stoneheartfarm
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Re: Paint Sprayer Recommendation?
[re: chevdog]
12/10/02 09:27 AM
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Haven't tried spraying yet myself, but I talked with a guy last summer that painted his house and barn that way. He used a standard spray gun attached to his air compressor. He used exterior latex from Home Depot.
He said he had to thin the paint to get a good spray pattern, but figured it was worth it because it produced a superior job. Apparently the guns will hold enough paint that you have to stop every 4 to 6 feet to refill on an 8' tall wall.
He said he has painted his house every 5 years for the last 20 years or so and has always used the same gun. It takes him about 2 days to do the house (1000 sf) and garage (24x30), both with 8' walls. Apparently the hardest thing is carrying a piece of carboard to prevent over spray.
I'm tempted to give it a try, just haven't hit an outside paint job yet. And, probably won't now until spring.
SHF
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ScottAR
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Re: Paint Sprayer Recommendation?
[re: chevdog]
12/10/02 02:26 PM
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The little handheld wagners are an exercise in frustration shooting unthinned latex. An airless system is the cats meow. My airless can spray a gallon in 3 minutes and 5 gallon in 15. Of course, I have to stop and move the ladder or somthing but one can knock out a job in a hurry. For raw wood, I'd recomend someone following behind you with a roller just to work the paint in a little. This also works well for inside painting in new construction.
Wagner/spraytech and Graco are some popular models. They start at about $400.
Just my $1.50
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jtd
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Re: Paint Sprayer Recommendation?
[re: chevdog]
12/10/02 05:22 PM
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I also purchased a Graco airless unit this year. Painted fence posts and fence boards. Plan to use it to paint the workshop, etc. Very happy with it. You do need different tips for different paints though. Tried a Wagner unit several years ago for latex paint. Gave it to a friend. It can be done but it's slow.
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Stoneheartfarm
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Re: Paint Sprayer Recommendation?
[re: jtd]
12/10/02 07:29 PM
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My experience with Wagner hasn't been the best. The stuff works, but not quite as handily as I'd like.
SHF
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Phred
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Re: Paint Sprayer Recommendation?
[re: chevdog]
12/10/02 11:33 PM
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Chevdog,
I painted the inside of my house including the cellings with a wagner.
Works ok but as the other guys point out it can be a little bit fussy.
The key is you must clean the gun after every use very very well. Otherwsie next time it won't spray worth a $^&.
I bet the professional models are much faster but if you are only painting a small amount then the wagner will do and will cost a lot less.
Also in my expereince don't even bother with the bulk pickup that is suppose to work from the paint can. That setup is worthless.
Also I gave up trying to use it with primer. The stuff is just to sticky and won't spray well from the wagner IMHO.
Fred
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chevdog
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Re: Paint Sprayer Recommendation?
[re: Phred]
12/11/02 06:56 AM
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Thanks for you responses. What I'm thinking about doing is buying an inexpensive gun and using my compressor.
I have a lot of experience with automotive paint spraying and materials, but I know there's a difference spraying a reduced catalyzed auto paint and a full bodied house latex. I was a little wary of the Wagner units as I have heard more complaints than complements about them. I was also going to try a couple of local pawnshops for the commercial type sprayers.
Fred, the amount that I will be spraying will be fairly substantial, as one entire side of the shop will be enclosed. I want a painted finish both on the outside and inside of the enclosed area. I'm looking for something that will let me get the coverage done in good time.
I was looking at some of the equipment some local housepainters were using - fairly simple, but they still had to thin the paint. However, they were able to put a good coat on the surface on every pass, and they moved along pretty quickly. I'm thinking that in the long run I'll be better off spending a bit more to hopefully take less time to do the job.
Whatever I do, I will spray the paint - no way I want to use a roller and brush to get all the surfaces. I decided to build cabinets into the enclosure walls - open shelves just collect dirt and stuff gets scattered everwhere. I want to paint the interiors of the cabinets as well, so spraying will save a lot of time and will catch all the nooks.
Nick
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Al_Wa
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Re: Paint Sprayer Recommendation?
[re: chevdog]
12/11/02 01:39 PM
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I painted the entire inside of my house with a Wagner using latex paint. Only after significant thinning and the addition of liquid soap to break the surface tension did I have any success. I discussed this problem extensively with the factory and this is the best they could offer. I would rarther sandpaper a wildcats rump than try this again.
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chevdog
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Re: Paint Sprayer Recommendation?
[re: Al_Wa]
12/11/02 03:23 PM
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"I would rarther sandpaper a wildcats rump than try this again."
Nick
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Stoneheartfarm
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Re: Paint Sprayer Recommendation?
[re: Al_Wa]
12/11/02 06:09 PM
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Um, Actually, I threw out a brand new Wagner paint stick, used only once, becaue I just couldn't stand using it. Took way too much paint, was heavy to swing when full, and ran out of paint too quick. (Probably because I didn't thin the heck out of it. ) Wound up using a regular roller with cheap Walmart heads and a telescoping extension handle from Quality.
SHF
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ScottAR
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Re: Paint Sprayer Recommendation?
[re: chevdog]
12/11/02 07:33 PM
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I was looking at some of the equipment some local housepainters were using - fairly simple, but they still had to thin the paint. However, they were able to put a good coat on the surface on every pass, and they moved along pretty quickly.
They were thinning because they wanted to use less paint.(more profit) The painters that painted the new public building my dad works in thinned the paint substantially, and it looks great, but it's very thin coverage. Bet they saved some money though. 
Any airless system will spray unthinned paint. Sherwin Williams doesn't recomend thinning more than 10%. I'm not sure how they arrived at that number, but I usually shoot it straight unless its a repaint of the same color. Then I thin the 10%.
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Gary_in_Indiana
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Re: Paint Sprayer Recommendation?
[re: chevdog]
12/11/02 10:56 PM
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After painting summers and vacations as an undergrad I was reluctant to try anything other than what I'd used "professionally."
I was at Sears and the tool department manager convinced me to try a Wagner power roller by offering me half off a display model and a guaranteed return if I didn't like it. Even at that I was reluctant but agreed.
After solving a problem which was directly attributable to my tendency to assemble things from pictures rather than reading the directions, it worked like a dream. I'm able to paint the entire interior (walls & ceilings) of a 1400 sqft. 3 BR, 2 BA rental with LR & FR in a long (10 hour) Saturday. Of course, I don't need to mess with a ladder, which helps. 
You might want to consider one of those.
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chevdog
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That power roller is worth taking a look at, Gary, but I will need to do a lot of painting inside cabinets and between joists, so I'm thinking that I would still really need the spray rig.
I found one that Northern sells - it's a 2 qt container with 5 ft hoses to the spray head so you're not swinging the paint filled container everywhere. Item #15897 - runs about $79 and it may be worth a try.
Thanks also for the info on thinning - my preference is to either not thin or just keep it at a minimum - guess some trial and error will solve this.
Nick
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chrisjbell
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Re: Paint Sprayer Recommendation?
[re: chevdog]
03/13/03 03:19 AM
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Bit late for a reply, but I'm doing exactly this kind of thing right now...
One of my jobs was painting, mostly oil onto structural metal and some limited automotive work. I've also painted more things than I would have ever liked to  with pretty much every tool available.
I've used the Wagner airless sprayers. IMHO, the small ones are completely worthless. The larger airless units are pretty good, although they don't give a very fine finish. The big thing to remember with spraying is that no matter what kind you use (HVLP, airless, etc.) you'll get a ton of overspray. For outdoor work this is fine, but indoors...better get plenty of plastic drop cloths.
Oh, one note...
I just painted nearly ten gallons of interior latex in my living room, hallway, and dining room. I got the Wagner power roller to do it and it really is nice. It is heavy - especially for ceiling work - but I still think it is better than having to deal with a paint pan (I've got tall ceilings). For walls it is fantastic - I can paint really darn fast with it. You do have to get the hang of it, though. BTW, this is *not* the "Paint Stick". It has a pump that feeds paint through a special roller cover.
I've found, though, that for stuff that I can take outside that a plain old sprayer (not HVLP) hooked up to my compressor does a pretty good job with latex. I try not to thin it too much - in fact, the paint I'm spraying now recommends only 1/4 quart per gallon, which is something like 10% (but I'm really bad at converting numbers, so please don't flame me too much if I'm wrong about the % ).
Spraying at low pressure seems to be the key. Anything above 30 PSI results in serious orange peel, although I've been really surprised with how well it levels out. You also will find that you can fire off a huge amount of paint in a really quick time if you get the pressure too high.
In fact, being used to spraying oil paint, I am quite surprised at how nicely the latex goes on. I'm doing furniture painting and it is looking pretty good. I'm even using a cheapo tank sprayer and that holds enough to keep me going for a while. In fact, I'll bet it is basically the same one you're looking at from Northern (although mine came from Harbor Freight). I sprayed most of my daughter's room with it and it worked great. It does quite well for doors, especially.
But make sure you strain your paint. The durn thing does like to clog.
OK, 'nuff on the ancient thread. I just couldn't help but reply since I've been painting like a crazy guy. I did a futon frame today and then took a couple of doors off to paint tomorrow. Sorry, folks, for the rambling...Chris
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chevdog
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Re: Paint Sprayer Recommendation?
[re: chrisjbell]
03/13/03 06:51 AM
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Chris - thanks.
A little update - I found out before buying that setup from Northern that I mentioned that it takes quite a few cfm to keep the cup pressurized. More than my current small compressor could supply. The solution was similar to what you noted - a basic $14 Harbor Freight paint gun. Works great for latex paint (had to thin it a bit) and was fine with my small compressor.
Nick
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GERARD
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Re: Paint Sprayer Recommendation?
[re: chevdog]
03/13/03 10:31 AM
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Maybe a little late but I bought an airless sprayer from Harbor freight, think it was around $200. Had the 50 foot hose. Has paid for itself many times over. No thinning required, puts out .45 gal per minute at max output though you usually adjust it a little lower. This is the kind you put the fill tube directly into the paint can or 5 gal container. Took me about 8 hours to pain our indoor arena (50 x 90 x 16feet high). Spent more time moving the ladder. I've painted my house twice, arena once, and detached garage once. Quote from a contractor for the arena was $4000. Cost me less than $1000 in materials and that was priming first then top coating. These are the way to go for volume spraying, just no comparison to using a compressor and paint gun (I have both)
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chrisjbell
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Re: Paint Sprayer Recommendation?
[re: chevdog]
03/14/03 03:00 PM
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Yeah, you usually do have to thin the latex in a spray gun. I was also just reminded the hard way that you don't want to fire too much pressure through it, either, instead of thinning. I shot about 1/4 gallon in about three minutes the other day because I was (stupidly) thinking that I could add pressure instead of thinning. Duh. Plus it turned out looking terrible...
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Joe
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Gravity Feed or Siphon??
[re: chevdog]
02/18/04 12:18 AM
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I'm looking at spray guns to use with my compressor. What are the pro's and con's of using a gravity feed vs a siphon feed? I'm a novice on spray painting and looking for a good general purpose spray gun to paint cabinets, molding, etc.
Joe
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gsganzer
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Re: Gravity Feed or Siphon??
[re: Joe]
02/18/04 08:51 AM
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I don't think there's much difference between a gravity feed and siphon. I just bought a siphon feed and the manual puts both of them in the same catagory. The nice thing about the siphon feed, is it has a 1 qt. reservoir.
So far, I've painted some implements and a dresser (both using oil based enamels). Make sure you have the following items (for either type):
Moisture separator and dessicator for the air from the compressor, regulator (if the paint gun doesn't have it), paper strainers to remove lumps when you fill the gun (can be had from Lowe's or HD), viscosity stick, reservoir liners.
I've only sprayed oil based paints so far (I've never liked latex for longevity). You must thin the paint (use viscosity stick to gauge) to get a smooth finish. In fact, if you thin it properly, it will seem a lot more watery then you'd imagine. The primers might be thin enough to level out, but the top coat isn't and requires thinning.
The can of paint will usually have a maximum thinning guideline (such as 8 oz/ gal) and what to thin it with. Thin the paint and then do some test sprays before you go for the money shot. The viscosity stick will help you thin consistently for every batch once you have the formula figured out.
The reservoir liners are a must to help with clean up. After you're done spraying, just pull out the liner and throw away. Fill the reservoir with solvent and spray through the gun to clean the passages. Wipe the exterior of the gun with a solvent soaked rag and you're done.
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Lazy
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Re: Gravity Feed or Siphon??
[re: gsganzer]
02/18/04 09:44 PM
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Hi
Panty hose make good paint strainers.
Charlie.
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RSKY
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Re: Gravity Feed or Siphon??
[re: Lazy]
02/19/04 07:15 AM
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Just be sure there is nobody in them.
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RSKY
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Re: Gravity Feed or Siphon??
[re: RSKY]
02/19/04 07:20 AM
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Painted my house last year with a pressurized cup sprayer hooked to my air compresser. It did a great job but I still had to thin the paint quite a bit and the cup only held about a quart of paint. Still it did a better job than a Wagner. The paint comes out of the gun at a higher velocity and penetrates the small cracks in the wood better. In other words I did not have to go back over with a brush or roller. It cost about $40 at Sears.
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Chillimau
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Re: Gravity Feed or Siphon??
[re: RSKY]
02/19/04 08:03 AM
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The latest issue of Fine Woodworking has an article on paint sprayers. Looks pretty good, I haven't read it yet. One difference I noticed is that the gravity will spray higher viscosity materials than the siphon. Anyway might check that article out.
Gary
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gsganzer
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Re: Gravity Feed or Siphon??
[re: RSKY]
02/19/04 08:24 AM
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Some of the "pressurized cup" sprayers have a gallon can accessory. You place a gallon can in a pressurized vessel and have a length of hose that extends to the paint gun. It seems like that would be the ideal set up for house painting. I think I saw it on Campbell Hausfields web site.
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Chillimau
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Re: Gravity Feed or Siphon??
[re: gsganzer]
02/19/04 10:31 AM
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House paint? I would suggest airless for that. Look around for a refurbished unit such cambell hausfield. I have painted several buildings with one, works nice for latex paints. Don't have to thin unless you are spraying block filler or some really heavy bodied material. The better airless units will spray the really heavy stuff without thinning, but those get expensive quick.
I think of a spray gun for a fine finish such as vehicles, furniture, etc. The Fine Woodworking article talks about viscosity cups and what size nozzels will spray what materials based on how many seconds it takes to drain from the viscosity cup.
Gary
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