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CJDave
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Got the air compressor going!
05/09/08 10:53 PM
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Waaay last August I was in the right place at the right time to bag a nice, 5 HP, Sanborn, 60 gallon, upright air compressor for free. The motor was only about a year old, but the pump was blamo. The tank check valve had come unscrewed internally and the valve innards fell into the tank. With no check valve the unit drained back through the unloader circuit and restarted against 90 PSI head pressure over and over ad infinitum until the motor finally tripped a breaker. By that time the crank and rods were blamo from starting dry against high head. I bought a new compressor from SURPLUS CENTER in Nebraska for a hundred bucks plus freight, but the late harvest and never-ending winter made it difficult to do much until things warmed up a little. I got the base re-drilled to match the new pump, and made up new piping a couple of weeks ago. Today I finally got the electrical all set up and energized. I'm using a mag starter that I built up with a 24V control circuit so I can run a remote toggle switch. This compressor is in a separate equipment room so to get it on line all I need is to do is flip on the bat-handle toggle switch on the interior wall of the shop. The unit runs nice and smooth with no leaks. This unit replaces a tiny one that I made out of a refrigeration pump taken from a Borden's Ice Cream freezer in 1971.
CJDave
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Pat
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Re: Got the air compressor going!
[re: CJDave]
05/10/08 12:06 PM
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Good job, Dave! I never used a frige compressor for a pressure pump before. A couple times I used one for a vacuum pump. Once to make a linear accelerator and once to lower the pressure in an air filled flash tube to cause it to arc over (flash) so as to not have to switch 15KV from a fast discharge pulse capacitor in my home brew pulse LASER. I teed in a plastic hose that when you put your thumb over the end the vacuum started to pump down till you reached the partial pressure where the 15KV would discharge between the electrodes in the quartz flash tube. Had to use a scatter shield as you never knew if the tube would explode or not.
I have a new upright compressor sitting on its pallet waiting for me to install it and plumb it into the shop, garage, etc. Not nearly the compressor you have but should be enough for me. Until or unless a trusted source (like you) tells me different the plan is to plumb everything with black iron pipe. I have heard all sorts of excuses for using PVC but I'm not interested. I will check the price of copper and powder coated aluminum too.
I may get a small refrigeration type drier. Never used or had one before. Do they sense the compressor running and come on or what?
Are we safe with compressed air?
Here is food for thought...
Compressed Air Piping Precautions:
1. A blast of air under 40 psi from 4 inches away can rupture an eardrum or cause brain damage.
2. As little as 12 p.s.i can pop an eyeball from its socket.
3. Air can enter the navel, even through a layer of clothing, and inflate and rupture the intestines.
4. Directed at the mouth, compressed air can rupture the lungs.
The following guidelines will reduce the risk of injury when using compressed air piping systems:
1. Examine all hoses and connections to see that they are in good condition before turning the pressure on.
2. Never point the air hose nozzle at any part of your body or at any other person.
3. Never look into the end of a compressed air device.
4. No horseplay with air hose.
5. Never kink the hose to stop airflow - turn it off at the control valve.
6. When using air for cleaning, make sure the pressure is no higher than 30 p.s.i.
7. Always wear eye protection when using compressed air.
I won't go into details but I have violated some of these but am trying to be a better (safer) citizen.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
Edited by Pat (05/10/08 12:19 PM)
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CJDave
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Re: Got the air compressor going!
[re: Pat]
05/11/08 05:15 PM
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Pat, I have probably scanned a hundred compressor-drier arrangements with INFRARED, but to be honest, I never noticed the setup as far as how and when the drier ran. I just assumed....... there's that word again,.... that it ran with the compressor motor, using a "rider" on the contactor that was a part of the control circuit of the drier. When the compressor contactor ran, it engaged a delay and then a few seconds later, the drier came on. The delay would be to reduce inrush current. My interior piping will be in sweated copper; it's easier and holds up well. I have a wall-mounted tank 6" diameter and two feet long that goes inside the shop and THAT tank has the regulator for low pressure and the usual gauges. Most of my blow guns are the OSHA type with the reducing device at the business end. Air can be very dangerous, and nobody who has spent their life around shops has not seen real stoooopidity at work. As confident as I am with my setup, I still don't feel real comfortable with leaving the air compressor "on" when I'm not in the shop. Too many things can and do happen; which is exactly why I now have this "free" compressor. This unit holds air well enough that it would just take a half a minute to pump up to shut-off pressure even if it sat for a week, and in any case there would always be enough residual pressure for inflating a tractor tire. Yes, this IS kind of an overkill setup with a mag starter and 24V controls, but what the heck. I bought everything out of the surplus catalog, and already had the 24V transformer out of a scrapped HVAC unit, so why not eh? Oh, and one more thing to keep in mind when wiring your unit, Pat: when you think the wiring is the heaviest you should use, bump everything up one size. Compressors, both large and small, want your BEST STUFF in the power supply department. I'm pulling 14.1 AMPS and all of the motor supply is ten gauge wire. I have a 30A breaker in the supply panel, and 20A Fusitrons in the compressor overcurrent device, a superb, vintage, SqD fusible 3-Phase disconnect. I use the first two legs of that SqD for the motor and the third leg has a 6 AMP fuse in it for the control circuit. That leg feeds the 24V transformer. The magnetic starter is built in a GE can that used to be an enclosed outdoor breaker. The transformer is in the same can as the mag and there is a double-throw switch on the can for Local-Off-Remote. Local is just as it sounds, and Remote is the bat-handle toggle switch inside the shop. Those little old refridgeration compressors are amazing. This one I have will hold 25" Hg. for as long as you want to sit and watch the gauge. I use it for pulling a vacuum on refridgeration piping.
CJDave
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Pat
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Re: Got the air compressor going!
[re: CJDave]
06/05/08 11:25 AM
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So,the day after my 4 1/2 inch angle grinder died the portable 35 gal air compressor on wheels wouldn't go above 30PSI. I ran temp 240VAC to the new compressor sitting on its pallet for a loooooong time but to be installed real soon now and it worked for almost two days before malfunctioning.
The pressure switch relieves head pressure and turns the unit on when pressure sags. The unit now runs till it reaches shut off pressure but the head unloading air passage leaks air continuously until the pressure switch tries to turn the unit back on. It stalls and does not spin the compressor because the head pressure isn't relieved. I am well out of warranty. Lesson learned: maybe you should test stuff before letting it sit for a couple years.
I suppose I will be able to buy a new part for it and get it going. It is a Craftsman vertical 60 gal with 9 HP and 175PSI.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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egon
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Re: Got the air compressor going!
[re: Pat]
06/05/08 12:04 PM
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Pat; don't touch anything expensive till the third item breaks down!
Egon
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Pat
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Re: Got the air compressor going!
[re: egon]
06/05/08 01:47 PM
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Hey, Egon...Well DU-UH... I listed three things that broke in the email to which you replied.
Why didn't you warn me before I wired up the new compressor? A fat lot of good the bad-luck-comes-in-threes warning is when you wait until I have already had three failures before you say anything!
Hey Dave... Assuming I get the 175psi Craftsman compressor fixed, should I put a regulator on the output to hold it down to a more moderate value? I noticed the refrigeration type drier I was thinking about is rated for less pressure than that and the advertising copy suggests a working pressure of 100 PSI.
I could, but would rather not have to run seperate "dry drops" separate from higher pressure not dry ones. Oiled and oil free drops are enough redundancy.
Do you think I really need more than 100 PSI for most general purpose shop stuff. I rarely exceed 100 PSI on my truck tires (rated for 110PSI)
If I can't get by OK with 100 PSI then I have to go to alternate means of drying the air. One alternative is absorbing cartridges.
What about running the drier on the input to the compressor instead of the output? I thought that since the drier works by cooling the air below the dew point to let moisture drop out and since the input air is cooler than the compressed air that it might dehumidify better on the input.
This might not be true in the case of air in the tank that has cooled over time and is now being let out of the tank but in a high duty cycle run time situaation I think it sould dry better in the input side,
Whatcha think?
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
Edited by Pat (06/05/08 01:59 PM)
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CJDave
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Re: Got the air compressor going!
[re: Pat]
06/07/08 05:40 AM
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Dear Pat, The air compressor malady as described in your recent post is a symptom of a tank check valve stuck open. Those valves are usually screwed into the the threaded flange on the tank, and may or may not have a separate 1/8" NPT fem tap for the unloader line. So the valve is stuck open and the tank pressure escapes back thru the unloader line till it reaches the set point and then the contacts in the pressure switch close and the compressor tries to start against high head pressure which it cannot do. The compressor that I have here was a victim of that same anomaly, wherein the check valve came apart and the innards fell into the tank, precipitating the chain of events which subsequently led to the demise of the compressor crankshaft. While you are working on your compressor and repairing or replacing that tank check valve, how about adding more "chamber" to the piping between the tank check and the compressor discharge? Anything you do to give the pump more "running room" before it has to push that check valve open means more oil on the crank and rod bearings before they get a big load on them. I doubled the amount of pipe on mine, but I have also seen little tanks added and "weenie" sections added just to give more cu in. There is actually NO REASON to have any more tank pressure than 100 if that will do your job. High pressure just means more storage so most people go for it. Unless you are running two-stage unit, run the tank pressure as low as you can and still get by. Yes, it may cycle a bit more, but so what, you aren't running a body shop and using gobs of air. MOST pressure switches will adjust down to 75-on, 100-off, BUT NOT ALL. SqD makes two different switches, one is for single stage units and is adjustable over a 75-125 PSI range and the two-stage style has a 100-200 PSI range. Both have unloader ports and an outside over ride lever. The single stage unit is good for 3 HP, although a purist like myself would never direct-start a unit that size, I would have a magnetic contactor.
CJDave
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CJDave
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Re: Got the air compressor going!
[re: Pat]
06/07/08 06:00 AM
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With regards to the dryer.... You would not want to put that dryer on the suction side of the compressor as it is rated at a given CFM @ working pressure, not free air pressure. You can employ a regulator ahead of the dryer and lower the pressure to 100, but still have tank pressure at rated capacity. I just noticed that your post said Craftsman 175 PSI. That is a two-stage unit, so instead of lowering the tank pressure down to 100, just tee a line to the dryer with a regulator to get the lower pressure. That way the high upstream pressure on that regulator will provide more consistent flow. The Caddy way to do this is to use that liddle 35-gallon tank from the other compressor as your LOW PRESSURE source by feeding it from the big guy via a regulator, and THAT low pressure air is then passed thru the dryer.
CJDave
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Pat
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Re: Got the air compressor going!
[re: CJDave]
06/07/08 07:00 AM
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Yup, Dave, I see you confirm my initial analysis. That is good because it was my first time and I could use the confidence boost. The end of the little tube goes to a fitting that is held on the side of the "control box" by two internal spline head screws (security type screws but so what as I have the $5 HF security screw bit set.) There is a gently pointed plastic thingy that is supposed to do something to the air but apparently doesn't.
I could just get a new part, install it, and be done but that violates rule number 121.305-B so first I have to take the controller/air switch apart. Then if it is beyond my understanding or some spring loaded part flies across the shop never to be seen again or the equivalent (before the compressor is working) then I can declare the control to be non-repairable and buy the new part and get it running again.
How about giving me some background motivation for the lowered pressure setting and all the on-off cycling to follow. This unit is a single stage (I didn't know any better at the time) factory set for 175 PSI. I figured that would give me extra capacity for meeting peak loads. It has a 60 gal vertical tank and it does not recover fast. I think it is a BIG tank and a not too capable compressor. What can I say, it is a Craftsman.
I suppose I can try it at 100 PSI which will satisfy my impact tools as well as nailer/staplers, spray guns, and virtually all tire inflation tasks but of course it will take some getting used to the idea of having the thing cycle every time you use a couple breaths of air. I may have to compromise back up to 125 PSI like the recently failed portable had to get a little more reserve so the fact that the compressor can't produce sufficient cu ft at pressure will not be noticed so quickly.
Maybe my years of experience using SCUBA bottles distorted my thinking. High pressure yielded good storage volume (steel 72 cu ft at about 2,100 PSI or aluminum 80 cu ft bottles at 3,000 PSI) and two stage regulators to drop it down to ambient.
Anyway, if you could provide some background/motivation for lowered pressures I'd appreciate it.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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Re: Got the air compressor going!
[re: CJDave]
06/07/08 08:44 AM
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Dave, I don't know enough about all this, practical experience wise, to agree or disagree.
Here is some info on the drier:
Advanced 3-in-1 air dryer system features modes for pre-refrigeration, evaporation, air and moisture separation modes to remove up to 90% of the moisture from your compressed air lines.
* High efficiency prerefrigeration system is three times faster, takes 60% less power to operate
* Accommodates compressors up to 21.6 CFM, 140 PSI max
* Lowers the dew point to 36ーF
Weight: 73 lbs.
Recommended operating pressure: 100 PSI. Not for medical use. Operates between 35.6ー-140ーF. Uses R-134A refrigerant. 115 V input; Air inlet: 1/2"-14 NPT;
Here is the product listing:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=40211
Here is the PDF manual:
www.harborfreight.com/manuals/40000-40999/40211.pdf
I don't know what pre-refrigeration means in this instance. Apparently it is not cooling the intake air.
My compressor is rated for:
7 HP (max developed)
175 PSI
60 gal tank
it is 2 stage OIL FREE
9 standard cu ft per min at 90 PSI.
I think I see why you don't want it on the input. My compressor will maintain 9 cu ft per min at 90 psi output. That requires 7 times as much (I hope I got it right and it isn't 6 times) intake air as output at 90 PSI. That would be 63 cu ft per min going into the compressor and the drier is rated for 21.6 cu ft per min.
I don't think I need dry air at pressures over 100 PSI. I will use dry air for plasma cutting and painting and I suppose air tools would appreciate it too. So unless or until someone cries foul I will plan on running the compressor, as sold, set for 175 PSI and put a regulator set for 100 PSI between the 60 gal tank and the drier with the output of the drier going into the 30-35 gal tank I can cannibalize from the Devilbiss 125 PSI portable. I will set that regulator at 100 PSI and distribute that air shop wide. I should be able to use the regulator and the dual gauges from the Devilbiss to do the 175 to 100 drop as they are currently installed on the Devilbiss tank.
I can install at least one high pressure outlet in the metal shop and one in the wood shop for just in case some temporary requirement comes up for higher pressure air and depend on hoses to get it to the job.
I liked the idea of running dry air on the input to the compressor but, oh well...
The June-July issue of "Progressive Farmer" has a good but simple piece with good illustrations on workshop compressed air distribution. Their featured installation was built around a 17 cu ft per min compressor with 80 gal tank. It too is a 175 PSI dual stage unit.
The pix show how to plumb for dry and oiled outlets with drains for condensate. They communicate a lot of info with a few paragraphs and pictures taking a page and a half. They hit lots of important issues like black iron not PVC, using flex hose between compressor and rigid piping for vibration isolation, and on and on.
I tell folks these same things and they ignore me and install PVC direct to the compressor and all through their shop because the installer and the owner know PVC is just fine, has never in their experience had a problem and is way cheaper and easier.
Anyone, please chime in. I'd rather know I was wrong about something before doing it not afterwards.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
Edited by Pat (06/07/08 08:48 AM)
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Re: Got the air compressor going!
[re: Pat]
06/08/08 06:16 AM
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Chances are you have it all figured out and it will work well Pat. To really spiff it up add a PSV or blowout membrane [bursting plate] at the end of the pipe run.
The prechilled air would indicate a chiller/cooler between the air compressor and the dryer. Many staged compressors have have interstage coolers and water removal systems.
Egon
Edited by egon (06/08/08 07:56 AM)
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CJDave
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Re: Got the air compressor going!
[re: Pat]
06/08/08 06:43 AM
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Pat, I'm reading in one post that you have a single stage and in the other post a two-stage. I DOUBT if your compressor is a single stage if it was factoree set for 175 PSI. At that pressure, the output in CFM from a single stage would be quite low. If your compressor is continuously bleeding air back from the unloader port on the pressure switch while it is RUNNING, then the unloader is blamo. If it is bleeding continuously from the unloader port while the compressor is stopped, then the tank check valve is blamo. The dual-tank arrangement is thee ideal setup. That will give you the best of all possible worlds. PVC is OK for air piping as long as the system isn't under pressure all the time. PVC pipe does fatigue over time; that's the awful truth. Needless to say, a PVC air piping system would want to be made from the heavy-heavy, ....heavy wall PVC. This will be my last day at my computer for a couple of weeks. I know how much you'll miss my posts, but what can I do? Should be back on line somewhere around the 20th?
CJDave
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Pat
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Re: Got the air compressor going!
[re: CJDave]
06/30/08 05:15 PM
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Dave, I got the new pressure switch and did the R&R new for old. The pressure switch/head unloader thingy cuts off the compressor at about 175 PSI and leaks a little air continuously thereafter. If through demand or just waiting until the lower limit is hit by leak down the compressor will not restart and is stalled trying till the protection device stops the motor from trying. (IT will reset and try again and again but will fail so I turn off the manual switch to prevent all this) I have to bleed down the tank pressure to about 30 lbs to get the compressor to start OK when I switch it back on.
There are a couple possibilities:
1. the new switch is defective (a replacement is coming from Sears) 2. maybe there is a wrong way to install it???
If you gently wiggle the little air line that runs from the pressure switch to the tank you change the leak rate. The leak is coming from inside the pressure switch assy, not a loose fitting problem due to me.
Do they ever put a check valve in the tank fitting where the "other" end of the air line from the switch assy goes?
If I try to use the compressor normally it pumps up to pressure and when I use enough air (or the leak lets enough air out) it tries to start the compressor but it is stalled as if the head pressure was never let off.
I get the same symptoms with the new switch assy as with the original one.
I don't think either switch assy is unloading the compressor properly and they both leak air and eventually drain the tank.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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Re: Got the air compressor going!
[re: Pat]
06/30/08 09:12 PM
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Pat, that fitting that screws into the tank IS a check valve. It has a tapped port for the unloader on the side and a bigger thread for the compressor discharge line on the top. The check valve should hold the tank pressure completely, no leak should come from the unloader after about four or five seconds after shutdown. If air is leaking, then the check is letting the air leak back and into the discharge side of the compressor and that's why it cannot start. The best way to take the check valve out is with a deep socket. It should come right out of there no problem. I bought a new tank check valve from SURPLUS CENTER 1-800-488-3407 Lincoln Nebraska. They have them in 1/2". 3/4", and 1" tank thread. The 3/4" sells for 16.99...... You could also autopsy the defective check valve and see if it has something holding it open..... like a piece of packing material under the valve seat. You'll have to take it out anyway so look it over carefully and you may find it to be fixable.
CJDave
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Re: Got the air compressor going!
[re: CJDave]
07/01/08 08:29 AM
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Dave, Thanks bunches man. I had never fussed with a compressor before. I treated them as totally black box, an appliance that works or doesn't BUT when I started thinking about my unit's symptoms... I got suspicious there might be more moving parts than met the eye, like maybe a check valve exactly where you confirmed there is one.
OK, we move on. Too bad sears and I are wasting time shuttling parts back and forth due to my ignorance.
Now about my 30 gal Devilbiss which failed and is the reason I hooked up the other compressor.
The good news is that it runs and pumps air. The bad news is that it runs continuously and never pumps up the tank beyond 30-35 PSI. It didn't suffer a gradual reduction in function, just one day I turned it on and it ran and ran and ran but made only 30-35 PSI.
Any hints or suggestions for this one beyond using it as a storage/buffer tank for 100 PSI air down stream of the 175 PSI unit? If it isn't more expensive and hassle to fix it than buying a new one I'd like to get it working as it is on wheels and light enough to load into a pickup so I can go mobile with the plasma cutter or spray paint rig.
Thanks again for the jump start on compressors. I'll check Sears parts price and if they are too proud of theirs I will try SURPLUS CENTER.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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Re: Got the air compressor going!
[re: CJDave]
07/02/08 01:43 PM
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Dave, Thanks again man, I took the check valve out, sprayed it with brake cleaner and then silicone spray, blew in it, sucked on it, poked sharp objects through the circle of 8 holes around the outside, etc and convinced myself it was working and put it back in. Compressor was in the way so had to use crunchit (Crescent style HF) wrench to R&R the check valve. Everything works fine now. All I have left is to take the pressure switch which is on the way and slap the label on it UPS dropped off to use for the return of the defective unit. I will keep the original (working OK but didn't know) pressure switch as a spare. IF it messes up again I will order a new check valve.
Now if I can get the 30 gal Devilbiss working right all will be good. It will run and run but not make over 30-35 PSI. The day before the malfunction it worked normally. Its performance did not degrade gracefully.
Compressed air drier number 2 was delivered a little while ago. The first one was really banged up badly in shipping via FEDEX.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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Re: Got the air compressor going!
[re: Pat]
07/02/08 07:17 PM
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Pat; how fast does this other compressor lose pressure?
Egon
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Re: Got the air compressor going!
[re: egon]
07/03/08 11:21 AM
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Egon, Quite slow if any leak down now that I removed, fussed with, and reinstalled the check valve that Dave confirmed the existence of in so timely a manner. It is working fine now.
Previously it would pump up to 175, shut off and then in a few minutes it would bleed down to 140 and turn the motor back on but the motor would be locked up because the head pressure was not relieved.
For the time being it is working OK and thanks to Dave if/when it messes up I know what part to replace.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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egon
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Re: Got the air compressor going!
[re: Pat]
07/03/08 01:02 PM
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It was the other compressor I was referring to Pat.
Sometimes when a valve goes it will hotter than the others. That was something we always had to check on compressors when the output was not up to requirements.
Egon
Egon
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CJDave
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Re: Got the air compressor going!
[re: egon]
07/04/08 06:19 AM
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I'm with egon on this one, Pat. The problem is most likely in the head; a valve has failed or is stuck. If that is a two-stage unit then it could be that one stage has a valve problem. It isn't unheard of for a piece of piston ring to come off and lodge under a valve seat. Pieces of piston rings have imbedded themselves into human flesh when the compressor is set up with a bottom-of-tank discharge and somebody was using a blow gun to dust themselves off. As you so stated, this symptom just "occurred" it wasn't a gradual decrease in capacity over time. I'm going with the valve suspect on this one. Glad to hear that the big compressor is running normally now. Doncha love it when a plan comes together?
CJDave
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Pat
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Re: Got the air compressor going!
[re: egon]
07/04/08 06:27 AM
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Egon, the "OTHER" compressor is a Devilbiss 30 gal on wheels. It is 120VAC powered and is rated for 6.9 cu ft per min at 90psi and pumps up to its set point of 125 psi (well it used to.)
The big two stage on 240 VAC with the 80 gal tank pumps up to 175 psi and is rated for 9 cu ft per min at 90 psi.
The smaller one (the one you asked about) will only pump up to about 30-35 psi now and of course does not shut off. It did not suffer graceful degradation of performance, just one day it worked and the next it didn't. I was using it with my plasma cutter and I need 60 psi.
I took a brief break from writing this as my wife called me on the intercom to inform me we had a cat sitting in the driveway in front of the house. My computer is upstairs so I went and looked down from the upstairs bathroom window and sure enough there was an adult bobcat just sitting there. I banged on the glass and was ignored. I opened the window and whistled and was ignored. I shouted at the cat and was mostly ignored. Eventually it got up and walked a couple feet into the grass on the away from the house side of the drive. Meanwhile a rabbit about 15 ft from the cat started heading down the drive way in the opposite direction of the bobcat who apparently did not see the rabbit. We have a breeding population of bobcats on or near our property and sightings are not rare, even in the middle of the day.
OK, I'm back on topic... Once the portable compressor messed up I quit fussing with it. I don't know how fast it leaks or if it leaks down. I will have to plug it into some hydro and see.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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CJDave
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Re: Got the air compressor going!
[re: Pat]
07/04/08 06:38 AM
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Pat, I think that bobcat should be named "Bob" since he seems to be quite comfy with being around your place. Yes, the bunny population is going to suffer, but so will the gopher and squrrel populations. A few bobcats might be a.... "good thing".
CJDave
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Pat
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Re: Got the air compressor going!
[re: CJDave]
07/04/08 07:00 AM
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Dave the "compressor wizard", nice to hear from you but I am not entirely in agreement. We have too many bobcats to have a decent quail population. As ground nesting birds like the quail are a target for the attentions of the bobcats and killdeer and bunnies get targeted too. It isn't all rats and mice.
I know it is nature's way and the world isn't a Disney movie BUT I have been known to intervene and assist(?) nature in some instances. This morning would have been an easy pistol shot if I were so inclined and went downstairs to arm myself. I just scoped the new rifle yesterday and have only bore sighted it but not fired it for final scope alignment. The scope's parallax adjustment only goes down to 50 yards and the cat was much closer, say 50-70 feet (certainly less than 25 yds.)
Only yesterday I was musing to the gun shop owner (retired Army) that I should put a reflex sight on top of my scope for those times when a target presents itself too close for the minimum magnification of the scope (6.5-20X) and too close to set the parallax (well under 50 yds) and may be moving as well. Besides by the time you fuss around stetting the parallax and twisting the variable power ocular the shot will probably not be available anymore. With a reflex sight (like a HUD in a fighter) you can get off a well aimed shot at close and or moving targets when a powerful long range scope is useless.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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CJDave
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Re: Got the air compressor going!
[re: Pat]
07/04/08 07:25 AM
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Several years ago when I lived in a city in CA I opened my curtains one morning to see the neighborhood pestkat sitting in my backyard. I decided he had caused enough trouble for one catlife and knowing that I needed the most subtle firearm available for the job of taking him out, I selected a Remington Model 513 with a bull barrel and topped with a match scope. I chambered a .22 short, and knowing that I had a huge problem with parallax with MAYBE a twenty-foot shot, I held just above the tip of his ear, and PUTT! That .22 short made almost no sound as I sent Pumkin Face to cat Valhalla.
CJDave
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Pat
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Re: Got the air compressor going!
[re: CJDave]
07/04/08 04:26 PM
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Dave, No joke, that is a felony in California now. I'm not sure but I think kicking your neighbor's cat is a big crime too in the people's republic of Kalifornia.
When I was in high school (after we moved from 40 acres 7 1/2 miles north of town) we lived 2 1/2 blocks from the school and 3 1/2 blocks from the police station. We had oodles of really big feral cats living there and breeding profusely. This was back in the days when you used a 50 gal drum for a trash barrel in the alley behind your house and burned the trash AND the trash men actually picked up the heavy barrel of glass jars, steel cans, and ashes and dumped it in the garbage truck (single handed.)
The feral cats would jump up and get into the cans to eat anything they liked before you burned (didn't burn every day.) Then to exit (witnessed by their ash laden foot prints on the soot covered inside walls of the cans) you could see where they jumped part way and rebounded from side to side till they made it to the top in a couple increments. Some of these cats were pretty heavy duty and more than once turned the heavy drums over.
Our neighbor across the alley had a Pomeranian dog and the lady and her daughter (high school junior when I was a freshman) used to "ride shotgun" with their BB guns to keep the cats at bay when they fed the dog outside. Otherwise the cats would mug the dog for its food.
My bedroom window was at the rear of the house facing the alley. On a few occasions I would, on seeing a big feral cat in the backyard garden or closer, remove the screen from the window for a shot with my single shot bolt action .22 rifle. Short hollow points are not really loud but are effective at close range with good shot placement.
My mom made me bury #2, # 3, etc since I just put the carcass of #1 in the trash and when burned (partially burned?) it did not smell nice.
I now have a muzzle suppressor (aka silencer) which will interchange between my Ruger 10-22, Ruger MK II target pistol, Ruger 22-45 pistol, and the neat little Walther P-22. The rifle requires subsonic ammo to be stealthy but the Walther with its short barrel is quiet with every long rifle shell I have found including the CCI mini mags and such.
In the event that the target is concealed in grass or weeds and a follow up shot is required I find they are not particularly apprehensive or put on alert by the first shot even though the feral cats are much much more "nervous" than the bobcats. In 7 years I have shot at 3 feral cats. One overwintered several years in a row and was particularly elusive and sneaky when approaching his hunting ground (our bird feeders.) I never saw the cat in warm weather, only with snow on the ground.
I bore sighted the 6.5-20 X 50 mil dot scope on the 6.5mm Creedmore flat top AR yesterday when I was at the gun shop getting a target trigger installed. I will be taking a few shots to zero it in later this afternoon. When I get used to it the rifle should be capable of taking a cat sized target at several hundred yards. Anyone with really good skills should shoot a 10 inch diameter group with this rifle at 1000 yds (over half a mile.) The top marksmen of course do way better at least much of the time. I think 120 grains coming out of the muzzle at over 3000 ft per second with flatter trajectory than a .308, less wind drift, and greater retained energy too will "do" a cat (or a lot of other varmints) fairly expeditiously.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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CJDave
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Re: Got the air compressor going!
[re: Pat]
07/04/08 04:58 PM
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Pat, What do you do with your household trash now? Burn? Ship? Burn and ship? I threw Pumpkin Face in the trash can and was AMAZED at how heavy he was. It was all I could do to keep his tail from sliding through my hand when I carried him out.
CJDave
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Pat
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Re: Got the air compressor going!
[re: CJDave]
07/05/08 08:46 PM
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Starting last year we have trash pickup and waste disposal company supplied trash cans on wheels with hinged lids. The operator is pretty liberal and has let me pile up mounds of empty cardboard boxes or put out a full container plus another trash can of ours. When I wanted to dispose of the old burned out drums half full of ashes he said sure no problem and was really happy when I used my FEL to load them into the back of his compacting truck.
They drive 7-800 ft down our drive to make the pickup.
We have no formal recycling. We can give plastic shopping bags back to Wal*Mart. We donate our aluminum cans to the local senior center. We didn't do a garden this year so no composting.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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egon
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Re: Got the air compressor going!
[re: Pat]
07/06/08 05:17 AM
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We have had recycling here since before we arrived. Compost goes in a large wheeled bin and garbage into black plastic bags. The next week its cans, plastic and glass in blue bags with paper in clear bags. Every fall and spring there is a general junk pickup. They make about three or four trips picking out specific materials each trip.
On the weekly garbage rums if you stuff has non acceptable stuff in it it's left for you.
Egon
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Pat
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Re: Got the air compressor going!
[re: egon]
07/06/08 09:07 AM
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San Diego was a regular recycling boutique as well. I was happy separating cans, glass, plastic, newspapers/magazines into separate containers. We had the large bins on wheels with hinged lids for just plain trash but separate containers for curb-side recycling of the above list. We were prohibited from putting grass and plant materials such as tree and bush trimmings into the trash. You either cut them to spec and tied in bundles to be left curbside or placed in your own containers, marked with adhesive stickers provided by the city, for pickup by a separate truck. The recycle bins were serviced by separate crews as well. Three different collection teams.
The demographics do effect recycling efficiencies. The legal resident population of just San Diego county in California is greater than the entire resident population of the state of Oklahoma. Here in Oklahoma, away from the population centers, out into the more remote rural areas, there is just not enough population density nor raw numbers to effectively and efficiently support much of a recycling system. That plus you should realize that Oklahoma is NOT on the leading edge of modernity in many respects, mostly a very good thing.
Oh, by the way... the upright air compressor has been unused and holding at 150 PSI for several days. No leaks!!! It is at 150 instead of about 175 because I let it down while opening the bottom condensate drain.
I couldn't make the leak test on the portable unit as when I went to try the missing outlet plumbing reminded me that I had cannibalized the output fitting to get the upright compressor operational. I will be going to town sometime this week and will get the needed fittings then.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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Re: Got the air compressor going!
[re: Pat]
07/06/08 10:35 AM
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The more I see and read about other place's garbage collection and recycling, the better I like ours. We just have once a week garbage pickup; every Monday, rain or shine, holiday or otherwise. They even came on Christmas Day. If you want to put your own garbage cans out, they'll empty them. If you want to use plastic bags, that's fine, too. If you want to set furniture, wooden or cardboard boxes, if they can fit it into that garbage packer, they take it. Limbs and such are supposed to be tied in 4' bundles, but they don't bother to check. If the guy can pick it up and fit into the truck, it's gone.
Recycling is optional. They used to provide a little green plastic box ON REQUEST, but several months ago, they just delivered the bins on wheels with hinged lid to every house. You can use it or not. If you do use it, the collection is the same day; just a different truck. And you can put "mixed residential paper, cans, glass, plastic" all in the same bin; no separating. The recycling material is supposed to be clean and they gave everyone a sheet with more detailed instructions, of course.
And if you wish to take stuff to the landfill yourself, you can also do that at no charge if you show by drivers license and water bill that you live in this town.
Of course the city contracts with Waste Management for the service and for that we currently pay $10.58 (including sales tax) a month on our water bill.
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Pat
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Re: Got the air compressor going!
[re: Bird]
07/06/08 11:07 AM
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Bird, Technology for recycling is improving and much of the task can be mechanized and handled "after the fact" instead of requiring individuals to separate trash into categories.
Your system sounds pretty darned convenient for the user. I think our service is about the same. The owner of our collection company drives one of the garbage trucks and is quite the entrepreneur. Essentially just about anything you set out for him that will fit in the compactor on the back of the truck will be taken away.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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CJDave
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Re: Got the air compressor going!
[re: Pat]
07/06/08 08:41 PM
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One of the things that I did to this nice upright compressor that I have here, Pat, was have a 12" piece of high pressure hose made up at the auto parts with 1/4" MPT fittings on each end, and THAT HOSE attaches to my tank drain with a 1/4" copper street elbow, and then I have a manual blow-off valve on the end of the hose with a tail on it that goes outdoors. That setup is convenient and clean so I don't hesitate to use it as I might if it meant reaching under the tank, opening a valve, and covering the floor with rusty, brown, oily water. Here in rural-rural-RURAL Iowa where the population is kind of scant, we do have rural garbage pickup. The PROBLEM is that the empty cans get blown into the next county before you can run out and grab them; very annoying. Soooo.... about five years ago I made a forced-draft incinerator that works absolutley, positively, superb so we burn all of the burnables in that; stuff like kitchen garbage and sensitive paperwork from the office. It will take a phone book to ashes no problem. Aluminum cans are picked up by a guy who uses that money to supplement his social security, and the same for the glass bottles with deposit allowances. The noozpapers, magazines, and other kinds of paper have their own recycle bins at the transfer station and empty metal cans are taken to their specific recycle bin at the same transfer station. The burnt remains from the incinerator are bagged and taken to the landfill about every three or four months.
CJDave
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Re: Got the air compressor going!
[re: CJDave]
07/07/08 09:22 PM
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Dave, I will be putting an extension on the bottom located condensate drain on the upright compressor.
What do you think about the automatic drain units the hook up to the little line running between the "T"/check valve and the presure switch assembly and supposedly drain the condensate when the unit cycles off when up to pressure? (I think I got it right.)
I got one of those from HF but never installed it on the portable since the fittings wre the wrong size and I lacked sufficient motivation. Now I think I would like it on the bigger upright unit (now that it works right.)
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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Re: Got the air compressor going!
[re: Pat]
07/08/08 05:27 AM
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Pat, I encountered a lot of those automatic drain setups in industry, and no doubt they are essential if the duty cycle of the machine requires it. The ones that I see are either pilot operated; that is to say they use a "signal" from the air line of the unloader to cock them and then they exhaust water (if any) when the signal goes away; OR... they are electrically cocked and get their signal from the pressure switch or the magnetic contactor. As much as I LIKE machinery, it seems like A LOT of extra machinery for an occasional-use unit like you have and like I have. It just occurred to me that you might be thinking that the condensate drain goes up on top? You aren't thinking that are you? Even though it plumbs to the air lines on top, the valve itself has to go where the water is and that's the bottom plug. I did have a horizontal compressor in one of my shops that had a top drain valve which had an internal stem that went down through the tank and pulled the water off the botom.
CJDave
Edited by CJDave (07/08/08 05:34 AM)
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