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CJDave
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Re: Got the air compressor going!
[re: Pat]
07/04/08 04:58 PM
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 Pat, What do you do with your household trash now? Burn? Ship? Burn and ship? I threw Pumpkin Face in the trash can and was AMAZED at how heavy he was. It was all I could do to keep his tail from sliding through my hand when I carried him out. 
CJDave
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Pat
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Re: Got the air compressor going!
[re: CJDave]
07/05/08 08:46 PM
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Starting last year we have trash pickup and waste disposal company supplied trash cans on wheels with hinged lids. The operator is pretty liberal and has let me pile up mounds of empty cardboard boxes or put out a full container plus another trash can of ours. When I wanted to dispose of the old burned out drums half full of ashes he said sure no problem and was really happy when I used my FEL to load them into the back of his compacting truck.
They drive 7-800 ft down our drive to make the pickup.
We have no formal recycling. We can give plastic shopping bags back to Wal*Mart. We donate our aluminum cans to the local senior center. We didn't do a garden this year so no composting.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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egon
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Re: Got the air compressor going!
[re: Pat]
07/06/08 05:17 AM
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We have had recycling here since before we arrived. Compost goes in a large wheeled bin and garbage into black plastic bags. The next week its cans, plastic and glass in blue bags with paper in clear bags. Every fall and spring there is a general junk pickup. They make about three or four trips picking out specific materials each trip.
On the weekly garbage rums if you stuff has non acceptable stuff in it it's left for you. 
Egon
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Pat
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Re: Got the air compressor going!
[re: egon]
07/06/08 09:07 AM
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San Diego was a regular recycling boutique as well. I was happy separating cans, glass, plastic, newspapers/magazines into separate containers. We had the large bins on wheels with hinged lids for just plain trash but separate containers for curb-side recycling of the above list. We were prohibited from putting grass and plant materials such as tree and bush trimmings into the trash. You either cut them to spec and tied in bundles to be left curbside or placed in your own containers, marked with adhesive stickers provided by the city, for pickup by a separate truck. The recycle bins were serviced by separate crews as well. Three different collection teams.
The demographics do effect recycling efficiencies. The legal resident population of just San Diego county in California is greater than the entire resident population of the state of Oklahoma. Here in Oklahoma, away from the population centers, out into the more remote rural areas, there is just not enough population density nor raw numbers to effectively and efficiently support much of a recycling system. That plus you should realize that Oklahoma is NOT on the leading edge of modernity in many respects, mostly a very good thing.
Oh, by the way... the upright air compressor has been unused and holding at 150 PSI for several days. No leaks!!! It is at 150 instead of about 175 because I let it down while opening the bottom condensate drain.
I couldn't make the leak test on the portable unit as when I went to try the missing outlet plumbing reminded me that I had cannibalized the output fitting to get the upright compressor operational. I will be going to town sometime this week and will get the needed fittings then.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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Bird
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Re: Got the air compressor going!
[re: Pat]
07/06/08 10:35 AM
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The more I see and read about other place's garbage collection and recycling, the better I like ours.  We just have once a week garbage pickup; every Monday, rain or shine, holiday or otherwise. They even came on Christmas Day. If you want to put your own garbage cans out, they'll empty them. If you want to use plastic bags, that's fine, too. If you want to set furniture, wooden or cardboard boxes, if they can fit it into that garbage packer, they take it. Limbs and such are supposed to be tied in 4' bundles, but they don't bother to check. If the guy can pick it up and fit into the truck, it's gone.
Recycling is optional. They used to provide a little green plastic box ON REQUEST, but several months ago, they just delivered the bins on wheels with hinged lid to every house. You can use it or not. If you do use it, the collection is the same day; just a different truck. And you can put "mixed residential paper, cans, glass, plastic" all in the same bin; no separating. The recycling material is supposed to be clean and they gave everyone a sheet with more detailed instructions, of course.
And if you wish to take stuff to the landfill yourself, you can also do that at no charge if you show by drivers license and water bill that you live in this town.
Of course the city contracts with Waste Management for the service and for that we currently pay $10.58 (including sales tax) a month on our water bill.
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Pat
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Re: Got the air compressor going!
[re: Bird]
07/06/08 11:07 AM
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Bird, Technology for recycling is improving and much of the task can be mechanized and handled "after the fact" instead of requiring individuals to separate trash into categories.
Your system sounds pretty darned convenient for the user. I think our service is about the same. The owner of our collection company drives one of the garbage trucks and is quite the entrepreneur. Essentially just about anything you set out for him that will fit in the compactor on the back of the truck will be taken away.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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CJDave
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Re: Got the air compressor going!
[re: Pat]
07/06/08 08:41 PM
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One of the things that I did to this nice upright compressor that I have here, Pat, was have a 12" piece of high pressure hose made up at the auto parts with 1/4" MPT fittings on each end, and THAT HOSE attaches to my tank drain with a 1/4" copper street elbow, and then I have a manual blow-off valve on the end of the hose with a tail on it that goes outdoors. That setup is convenient and clean so I don't hesitate to use it as I might if it meant reaching under the tank, opening a valve, and covering the floor with rusty, brown, oily water. Here in rural-rural-RURAL Iowa where the population is kind of scant, we do have rural garbage pickup. The PROBLEM is that the empty cans get blown into the next county before you can run out and grab them; very annoying. Soooo.... about five years ago I made a forced-draft incinerator that works absolutley, positively, superb so we burn all of the burnables in that; stuff like kitchen garbage and sensitive paperwork from the office. It will take a phone book to ashes no problem. Aluminum cans are picked up by a guy who uses that money to supplement his social security, and the same for the glass bottles with deposit allowances. The noozpapers, magazines, and other kinds of paper have their own recycle bins at the transfer station and empty metal cans are taken to their specific recycle bin at the same transfer station. The burnt remains from the incinerator are bagged and taken to the landfill about every three or four months.
CJDave
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Pat
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Re: Got the air compressor going!
[re: CJDave]
07/07/08 09:22 PM
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Dave, I will be putting an extension on the bottom located condensate drain on the upright compressor.
What do you think about the automatic drain units the hook up to the little line running between the "T"/check valve and the presure switch assembly and supposedly drain the condensate when the unit cycles off when up to pressure? (I think I got it right.)
I got one of those from HF but never installed it on the portable since the fittings wre the wrong size and I lacked sufficient motivation. Now I think I would like it on the bigger upright unit (now that it works right.)
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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CJDave
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Re: Got the air compressor going!
[re: Pat]
07/08/08 05:27 AM
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Pat, I encountered a lot of those automatic drain setups in industry, and no doubt they are essential if the duty cycle of the machine requires it. The ones that I see are either pilot operated; that is to say they use a "signal" from the air line of the unloader to cock them and then they exhaust water (if any) when the signal goes away; OR... they are electrically cocked and get their signal from the pressure switch or the magnetic contactor. As much as I LIKE machinery, it seems like A LOT of extra machinery for an occasional-use unit like you have and like I have. It just occurred to me that you might be thinking that the condensate drain goes up on top? You aren't thinking that are you? Even though it plumbs to the air lines on top, the valve itself has to go where the water is and that's the bottom plug. I did have a horizontal compressor in one of my shops that had a top drain valve which had an internal stem that went down through the tank and pulled the water off the botom.
CJDave
Edited by CJDave (07/08/08 05:34 AM)
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Pat
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Re: Got the air compressor going!
[re: CJDave]
07/08/08 09:05 AM
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No, Dave, I still seem to recall that water is heavier than air and will collect at the lowest point it can. Considering this, trying to "drain" condensate from a high point is probably not provident.
I already have the HF unit and will eventually get around to installing it. It is a drain valve (of course, installed at low point - - as replacement for drain plug) and is controlled by an air line connection to the little air line connecting the pressure regulator (switch) assembly to the check valve. I'm guessing that when the heads are unloaded the drain valve is activated for a short while but I don't know for sure.
Since I have it I might as well try it out some time eventually. I agree it is not a necessity but if it works OK and doesn't leak and since I already have it, what the heck. It does require cutting and installing a "T" in the little line to the pressure switch.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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CJDave
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Re: Got the air compressor going!
[re: Pat]
07/08/08 01:46 PM
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I suspect that the auto-drain valve has a chamber with an opening on each end. The tank side is normally closed and the atmosphere side is normally open. While the compressor is pumping, the air pressure from the unloader tube reverses the valve and the accumulated tank moisture flows into the cavity between the valves and is then exhausted when the compressor cycle is complete and the valve switches back to it's original position. Pat, I thought and thought before I mentioned that business about the valve needing to be on the bottom;  I KNEW you would know that, but just in case that particular valve was actually intended for a top-mounted siphon setup I went ahead and mentioned it because I knew your tank was not set up for anything like that, and there is nothing like reading a set of instructions that aren't for your application. How about using a street tee on the tank check valve unloader port and thereby get a place to hook the drain valve pilot tube?
CJDave
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Pat
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Re: Got the air compressor going!
[re: CJDave]
07/09/08 04:41 PM
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Hey Dave, better safe than sorry. Better to err on the side of caution. In this particular case the instructions with the HF stuff actually are readable and make sense.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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egon
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Re: Got the air compressor going!
[re: Pat]
07/10/08 05:41 AM
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Pat, I'm positive Honeywell could set you up a drain system that would be awesome. Chances are you could even write a program to control it!
Egon
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Pat
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Re: Got the air compressor going!
[re: egon]
07/10/08 07:47 AM
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Egon, I think the HF accessory is about as high tech as I need. If the HF accessory doesn't work out to my satisfaction I will use a flexible extension (to handle the vibration) and remote the drain valve to an easily reached location where I don't have to stand on my head to reach it.
I haven't used the air for nearly a week and the pressure is remaining constant (with the switch shut off) so apparently I have no leaks worthy of the name.
As soon as I get the fittings I need to set up the little compressor, I will run that leak test you suggested. It could very well show me that the compressor itself has a leaky intake valve or whatever.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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Pat
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Re: Got the air compressor going!
[re: Pat]
07/14/08 11:22 AM
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Egon, I finally made it to town and got the fitting to get the little air compressor going. It pumps up to about 45-47PSI and just keeps running but making no more pressure. I shut it off and have been monitoring the pressure. In nearly 3 days it has dropped to about 40 PSI but at least part of that drop was due to a reduced temperature.
I guess we now assume the check valve is OK and than the pressure switch/head unloader thingy is not leaking. This leaves piston to cylinder wall seal and the "exhaust" valve or maybe the intake valve.
If it were a car I would do a dry vs wet compression test but not sure if that is Kosher with a compressor.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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Re: Got the air compressor going!
[re: Pat]
07/14/08 12:46 PM
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Any blow by from the crankcase?
Pulling the head may be in order!
You just done used it too much!
Egon
Edited by egon (07/14/08 01:43 PM)
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Pat
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Re: Got the air compressor going!
[re: egon]
07/15/08 02:52 PM
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Any blow by from the crankcase?
Pulling the head may be in order!
You just done used it too much!
Egon
Well good buddy, I think I have to disagree with you this time.
1. It is an oilless compressor so that although it has a crankcase to contain the crankshaft it is not filled (safely fillable?) with oil. I assume (realizing the risk in assuming) that by blow by you mean expelled oil. No oil to expel/blow by. If you mean something else than I don't know how to answer.
2. If it were normal wear over time the degradation in performance would have been more gradual but my situation is that one day it pumps the 30 gal tank right up to 125 PSI and the next it pumps up to 45-47 PSI and although it continues to run it can't make more pressure. When shut off it loses 5 PSI in 3 days, partly due to a reduction in temperature. Now after 4-5 days it is still at about 40 PSI so I think the check valve and pressure switch/head unloader are OK.
3. So, I suppose the "usual suspects" now are: 1. the piston to cylinder wall seal (rings if fitted), 2. the intake and exhaust valves.
I am blissfully ignorant of how the intake and exhaust valves are configured in an oilless compressor (or any compressor for that matter.)
Something other than long term gradual wear effects is at play. Something suffered a catastrophic loss of function as listed in para 3 above.
My alternative courses of action are (not in priority order): 1. Await additional suggestions via this site 2. cannibalize the the unit for the parts that still work (like the tank), 3. take it to a compressor maint shop, 4. open it up and take a look and see if there is anything to be done by someone at my level of competence.
If I exercise action option 4 I will need a source of parts as I suspect there will be a head gasket to renew whether or not I see anything else to replace. I think I remember something about oilless compressors having graphite piston to cylinder wall seals. At least the little used "breathable air" unit I bought from Parson's which was originally used for inhalation therapy but I used for shallow hookah diving was said to have the graphite.
Unless there is something really WEIRD about my situation I feel confident that the problem is a valve, piston seal (ring or ring equivalent), or maybe even a leaky head gasket. If a head gasket blew out (developed a leak) it could cause the overnight change of performance. I know less about the valves than I would like but if a valve developed a problem I think it could have caused the sudden loss of performance too.
I'm open for suggestions, if any, for any tests or inspections prior to pulling the head and looking inside.
Do compressors have flapper valves (reed valves) or do they have valves more like an ICE. It could be something as simple as a mud dauber contaminating the intake valve with gritty mud. When I fired it up to test it the cooling fan for the motor apparently had been colonized by mud daubers as lots of dry mud was slung out with the cooling air flow.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
Edited by Pat (07/15/08 02:59 PM)
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egon
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Re: Got the air compressor going!
[re: Pat]
07/15/08 04:36 PM
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One would just assume you had a proper cast iron head piston compressor Pat.  This would fit your tool profile properly.
The type you have I have no experience of !
Bird will be able to solve your problem. I think the rebuild takes maybe 1/2 an hour or so.
Egon
Edited by egon (07/15/08 04:39 PM)
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GaryM
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Re: Got the air compressor going!
[re: Pat]
07/15/08 05:14 PM
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Pat, The oil less unit's I've seen, and even my old oiled unit, had reed valves.
Many, if not most, don't have rings either, just a Teflon sleeved piston, of maybe Teflon rings.
Gary
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Hey! Aren't you supposed to be working?
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Bird
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Re: Got the air compressor going!
[re: GaryM]
07/15/08 07:36 PM
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I really don't know just what Pat has. I've never seen an oilless compressor that went more than 125 psi, and the ones I have seen all had reed valves and no crankcase at all. The first time I ever tore into one was when mine would only build about 30 psi, continue running, but never build anymore pressure than that. And the problem was a broken reed valve. Instead of a crankcase, there was simply a "crankshaft" directly connected to the motor, the cylinder was a thin aluminum teflon coated cup, and the piston had a single ring.
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GaryM
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Re: Got the air compressor going!
[re: Bird]
07/15/08 09:58 PM
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Sounds like the Craftsman pancake compressor in my garage. The cylinder's open on the bottom, well the bottom of the piston anyway.
Gary
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Hey! Aren't you supposed to be working?
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Pat
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Re: Got the air compressor going!
[re: egon]
07/16/08 01:49 PM
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Egon, My first ever compressor came with a length of hose and an old fashioned spray gun and had no tank. It is oil type. When I bought my first tank type unit is was the Devilbiss which recently failed after intermittent use over a period of 15-20 years. It is oil free. I bought the upright Craftsman two stage 175 PSI which recently returned to service after failing within two days of initial startup to provide air for the shop via plumbing, filters, oilers, regulators etc. I probably bought it before I noticed it was oil free and didn't know enough about compressors to know if that was good or bad. I don't know much more now except you acted surprised I didn't have an oil filled unit. I suppose if there is a way to screw up due to ignorance (not knowing that I don't know) I may have done that.
Well it is too late to worry about it now. I will just use the new compressor till I don't care anymore or it dies, whichever comes first. After it dies (if it does) I can cannibalize it for the tank and other parts and buy A CORRECT COMPRESSOR whatever that is.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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Pat
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Re: Got the air compressor going!
[re: GaryM]
07/16/08 01:51 PM
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Thanks Gary, I have never opened up a compressor but apparently will when I get around to it. Maybe a name brand like Devilbiss will increase the odds of finding parts.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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Re: Got the air compressor going!
[re: Pat]
07/16/08 02:46 PM
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Pat, the last I knew, DeVilbiss made the Craftsman compressors. And every Craftsman I've seen came with a parts list and exploded view. But since I've not seen any of the 2 stage oilless compressors, I went to Sears website, found one, a model #16778, Sears #00916778000, but could not find a parts list or manual.
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Re: Got the air compressor going!
[re: Pat]
07/16/08 03:27 PM
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Pat, I assume things very often. Maybe due to lack of memory or not applying due diligence when reading. Many times these assumptions are wrong.
Seeing as I have a three HP. cast iron twin cylinder made by Campbell Hausfield I just naturally assume everyone will have a similar type. 
Egon
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