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Handyman
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Oil pump idea
06/08/05 11:51 PM
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I want to build or make some type of oil pump to transfer used oil thru a by pass filter from one container to another.
I've seen some oil pumps, but for several hundred dollars... Looking for ideas for a cheaper setup.
Any Idea's ?
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CJDave
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Re: Oil pump idea
[re: Handyman]
06/09/05 03:36 AM
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I recently built what I call an oil "slurpee". It is a five-gallon Jeep can on a base with a 12V pump mounted to the base. I use it to slurp the oil out of the drain pans and pump it into the jeep can. When the jeep can is full it goes into the 55-gal barrel my neighbor has for his oil-burning shop heater. I bought the pump from SURPLUS CENTER in Nebraska. They have oodles of different kinds of oil transfer pumps; different voltages and different pressures. 
CJDave
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have_blue
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Re: Oil pump idea
[re: Handyman]
06/09/05 09:27 AM
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Handyman,
Depends on how much work you want to do. There are manual pumps, but I suppose they could get pretty boring. 
If I'm understanding you, you want to transfer dirty oil from 1 drum to another, filtering it as you go. If cleanliness is critical, wouldn't a bypass pump be the wrong type? If the filter became clogged, a valve would open and dirty oil would bypass the filter and go directly into the clean drum. Am I thinking right?
Check out the Northern Tools catalog for ideas. Prices run from budget-friendly to downright hostile.
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Handyman
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Dave I would be interested in how you built it ...
I was talking about taking used oil and pumping it thru a truck bypass filter as its transfered to another container
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Handyman
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Re: Oil pump idea
[re: Handyman]
06/09/05 11:42 PM
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Thanks to the Northern tool idea... I think I have found what I have been looking for....
This pump piped
http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=6970&productId=47671&R=47671
into this filter
http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=6970&productId=24414&R=24414
then to a tank...
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Pat
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Re: Oil pump idea
[re: Handyman]
06/11/05 08:47 PM
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So how thick is the oil and how much of a hurry are you in?? There are a couple really low cost options. Gravity as in a syphon. It would help to elevate the source tank above the destination tank to get more head of pressure to help push it through a filter.
Idea 2: make the connecton to the receiving tank air tight and connect a shop vac to the drum's other bung by way of a heavy wall but clear tube. The vacuum on the receiving tank will pull the oil out of the supply tank and have enough suction to spare to pull it through a filter. You need a float switch to shut off the vac or not leave it unatended toward the end of the run.
Transfer pumps aren't cheap and wont vacuum up the shop. Spending the $ on a vac serves a couple needs.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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Handyman
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Re: Oil pump idea
[re: Pat]
06/12/05 02:27 PM
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OK, I guess I need to explain what I want to do...
I want to be able to change my oil in my semi truck, pump the oil thru a by pass filter (to clean the oil) and pump it into my fuel taks to mix in with the diesel...
We're talking 10 gals mixed in with 200 gals of fuel (might even mix in less over a longer period). Since diesel and oil will mix well... this will give me 10 gals of fuel every 6-8 weeks. It will eliminate me having to worry about disposing with the used oil... not to mention extra lub to the top end of the motor.
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johnday
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Re: Oil pump idea
[re: Handyman]
06/12/05 04:56 PM
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Handyman; Your post interests me. Do you know of anyone that has done this? In theory it sounds good. I'm just wondering about the injectors and pump. Like you it seems, I'm tired of paying for someone else to make more money out of my used oil. Kinda makes you think your paying double. I don't have a deisel that holds 10 gallons, but I have one that holds 15 quarts. Plus my little NH TC35DA, thats another 5 quarts. I'd be interested in seeing any kind of test results on doing something like this. Got any leads? 
Trucks are red, Tractors are blue.
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have_blue
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Re: Oil pump idea
[re: johnday]
06/13/05 09:29 AM
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The real trick here is filtration. That's why Handyman was searching for an excellent filter. Even the most minute particles would accelerate wear on the injectors.
Another consideration is the ratio. It isn't very practical is you have a small diesel tank. If you have a larger tank and some real diesel hogs, you can use the oil up at a very lean ratio and still get rid of it. Someone like me for example (who buys 20 gallons of fuel at a time) would have trouble getting rid of it. I would have to mix it at maximum ratios, and that would make maximum injector wear and maximum exhaust stink.
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Handyman
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Johnday....
Yes I have seen this setup when I was a company driver yrs ago...
The key thing was (as said) filtration... thus the "By Pass" filter. This filter will filter the oil down to around 3 mircons and some down to 1 micron, removing water, fuel and minerals...
Todays diesel fuels are lacking the sulfer that was once used to lubricate cylinder top ends, but thanks to the EPA... a lot of lubercates are being removed from diesel fuel.
I'm not looking at this to polute , but rather to enhance and utilize potential fuel.
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johnday
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Re: Oil pump idea
[re: Handyman]
06/13/05 06:35 PM
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Handyman; I'm thinking. If you were to mount 2 filters in series, say a 3 micron first, then a 1 micron, basically a polisher, that seems like you'd get good filtration. Also, how about a separator ahead of the 3 micron? I think I might be getting too elaborate here, but I'm interested in this.
Also, a bypass filter? I'm not sure I follow you. If the bypass filter got plugged, wouldn't it tend to bypass dirty oil?
Remember, dilution is the solution to pollution.
Trucks are red, Tractors are blue.
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CJDave
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Re: Oil pump idea
[re: Handyman]
06/14/05 01:03 AM
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I have kind of been away from this thread for a while, but HERE IS THE ANSWER to what you want to do. Use the toilet paper filter setup to filter that oil. It's inexpensive and will remove EVERYTHING.....including any additive package that is in the oil. Back in da fifties, these filters were quite common, and I had them on several rigs, both gas and diesel. They will turn black diesel oil clear in about three hours of engine time. I have one on my tractor right now because it sat for years and needs a good cleanup. If you cannot find one to buy, I can send you a sketch that would show you how to make one. You could use a tiny gear pump to push the oil.....so what if it takes four hours. I have seen diesel trucks serviced with a van equipped with the oil filtering setup right in the van and the oil was pumped into the fuel tanks. They always had the trucks topped up on fuel when they did that, however, for dilution. 
CJDave
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Pat
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Re: Oil pump idea
[re: Handyman]
06/14/05 06:48 AM
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Handy, I think I would be looking for a SUPER filter or a centrifuge (old cream separator???) or some way to remove contamination. Injector pumps are expensive and DO NOT LIKE PARTICULATE CONTAMINATION. Any convenience or savings might be offset by injection system woes later, a bad trade.
You might want to do some pH testing as well at least on one batch to be sure it isn't out of whack.
Is there a reason why you wouldn't use diesel fuel filters to filter the oil? I used to have a set of Fram filters (two canisters in series) with each somewhat larger than a quart jar. I know there are larger units that wold have longer cartridge life and less back pressure. You could use a positive displacement pump, maybe gear type. If speed wasn't a consideration, after the first pass you could recirculate the filtrate in a closed loop not unlike the fuel system on your rig.
Good luck,
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
Edited by Pat (06/14/05 07:02 AM)
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Re: Oil pump idea
[re: johnday]
06/21/05 08:40 AM
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John,
I'm with you on the bypass filtration (as opposed to full, or forced filtration). All the oil should be filtered. Not even a little oil should get into the "clean" tank unless it has been filtered.
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You guys are correct in your thoughts, however your not focusing on what "I'M" talking about...
I will be filtering 100% of the oil thru a bypass filter that will clean the oil down to 3 microns... A ByPass filter is a "OIL" filter.
A bypass system on a truck will direct 5%-10% of the oil, but with what I am wanting to do is filter 100% of the oil. thru the filter.
Another thing that some of you don't realize is that trash that is in fuel that is pumped right out of the ground into your tank... as big as 30 microns is being pumped into our fuel tanks... 7 mirons is the worst in damaging injectors.
Cat filters clean fuel down to 3 microns
Cummins 10 microns
Detroit ???
So what I will be doing will be cleaning the oil cleaner than the fuel that is being used in my truck.
Besides, I don't change oil but every 6-8 weeks... I'm not looking to supliment my fuel supply daily or even weekly, just to utilize the used oil.
I needed some type of pump and a oil filter housing to allow me to use a bypass oil filter without it costing me an arm or a leg...
It doesn't matter if its 12v DC or 110v AC
I would like to see design ideas for home made units as well.
The TP idea is a nice idea, but what kind of canister would I use to force the oil thru the TP ?
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CJDave
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Re: Oil pump idea
[re: Handyman]
06/24/05 04:12 PM
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I'm glad to see that you are open to the idea of using toilet paper to do this job. That, in my humble oil-filtering opinion, is the ONLY economical way to meet the criteria of this oil reclamation project and not incur a huge debt from equipment purchases. Not only first-cost, but subsequent costs of filters would be a significant factor if you go to any factory made element. There are two things that you need to do in order to use the TP as a filter: First you will need to stuff it into a "can" which holds it's outside shape and integrity. The next thing you need to do is provide a way to spread the incoming oil over the round face of the roll and push it lengthwise between the sheets. Then a similar setup to gather the oil as it comes out of the sheets. I once used a CYLINDER SLEEVE out of a tractor engine to make a TP oil filter when cash was short and need was great. JC Whitney had them for years in their catalogs. The by-pass add-on filter I have on my John Deere was made by an outfit called SKY INDUSTRIES, located on the West Coast.....I think....I found it in a wrecking yard. I could send you a sketch so you could have one made or build one yourself. If you would like a sketch just e-mail me at: davickie@netins.net
CJDave
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Re: Oil pump idea
[re: Handyman]
06/25/05 06:15 AM
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I remember seeing the Frantz TP oil filters years ago. Apparently they are still around. Check out their web site for ideas.
Frantz
SimS
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johnday
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Re: Oil pump idea
[re: Handyman]
06/25/05 03:26 PM
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Handy; Guess I didn't know what a bypass filter was  . So using the bypass filter like YOU mentioned, would probably work. Have you come up with something yet? I'm interested in finding out more about what you're up to with this.
Trucks are red, Tractors are blue.
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johnday
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Re: Oil pump idea
[re: CJDave]
06/25/05 03:30 PM
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CJDave; Would you mind PMing me with what you've come up with? Or better yet, post it for all to admire.
Trucks are red, Tractors are blue.
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CJDave
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Re: Oil pump idea
[re: johnday]
06/25/05 03:55 PM
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Are you interested in the "oil slurpee" that I built or the Toilet Paper oil filter? That website for FRANTZ filters is the place to go to get a TP unit. Those look exactly like the one I have on my tractor. I met JOHN FRANTZ personally several times in the late fifties; his shop was about ten miles from where I grew up in the Central Valley of CA near Modesto.******** I have this huge computer with all the bells and whistles but I have never actually learned how to operate everything. I can FAX a drawing but my scanner has never actually worked so e-mailing is a problem. Somehow the software seems to evaporate after I install it, and then that's it for the scanner.  I would be glad to send you a drawing of the "slurpee".
CJDave
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johnday
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Re: Oil pump idea
[re: CJDave]
06/25/05 05:18 PM
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Dave; At LONG LAST!!!! Someone less computer friendly than me!! 
I think I've got a handle on the Frantz unit, now that I went to their website. After working with powerplant equipment and trucks and heavy equipment, I'm kind of embarassed to admit I really didn't know what a bypass filter really was.
I 'll send you a PM with my FAX number for a drawing of the slurpie. Thank you much.
Trucks are red, Tractors are blue.
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CJDave
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Re: Oil pump idea
[re: johnday]
06/25/05 08:14 PM
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You'll notice that the FRANTZ filter setup utilizes a 1/16" orifice in the oil supply to the TP filter. If you don't use that small orifice, the oil that is being by-passed can actually lower the idle oil pressure on engines that might already suffer from low idle oil pressure..........like the early model Detroit Diesels for example.
CJDave
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Handyman
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Re: Oil pump idea
[re: CJDave]
06/27/05 09:10 PM
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Dave you have mail...
You know, this gives me an idea 
In the old days, truckers used to use paper towels in a oil refiner.
My concern is volume... I'll need to move oil at a reasonable rate... another words I don't want to take all day to pump 10 gals 
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CJDave
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Re: Oil pump idea
[re: Handyman]
06/28/05 11:53 AM
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on the contrary.......you DO want to take all day to pump ten gallons....through the toilet paper filter that is. You'll need to run the oil slowly so it can filter and then when all the oil has transferred to the "clean" barrel, you pump it into the Pete with a barrel pump.....hand crank.....just like we have used for years. So.....you have a barrel for waste oil......out of that barrel you use a tiny transfer pump like a pump from a discarded oil burning furnace......the little pump pushes the oil thru the TP filter......into the "clean" barrel......that barrel has wheels under it and a barrel pump on it so you can pump it into the tanks on that Mack.
CJDave
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Re: Oil pump idea
[re: CJDave]
06/29/05 11:18 PM
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Well I think I found the solution to my problem on eBay of all places...
Its a complete oil pump w/filter system for $245 from a company out of watertown SD
A little more than I wanted to invest, but by the time I figure in my time and fabricate everything to fit.. I would have this much invested.
They have 110v or 12v (for a few dollars more)
Oil Transfer pump
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