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welder question?
03/06/03 10:15 PM
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does anyone know about duty cycles. what they mean and how much duty cycle do you need, for a decent welder? 
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idaho04
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Duty cycle is only related to electric welders. If you have a ARC welder that specifies 20% duty cycle it means that for every 2 minutes continuous welding you have to give it 8 minutes cool off (not welding) or the welder will overheat.
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Boondox
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Instead of just answering the question, I'd suggest you visit the Websites of either Lincoln or Miller welders. Both have great sections on education and training. They can answer your question and many more!
Pete
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Re: welder question?
[re: idaho04]
03/07/03 01:55 PM
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Thanks for the reply. I thought I remembered something like that but wasn't sure. couldn't seem to find it on any of the welding sites.
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gauthier
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Re: welder question?
[re: Boondox]
04/15/03 04:26 AM
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Whats the problem with just answering the question?Sounds like a salesman talking.The other guy was right about your question.Its imporant.For instance, you get a m.i.g. welder with a 30% duty cycle at say 100 amps.That means you can only weld 3 out of 10 mins.at those 100 amps.[if you are lucky]now a m.i.g., because you don't have to chip slag,change rods,etc.,will enable you to weld way more than 3 out of 10 min.,so its important with all machines but something that is semiauto its more imporant,its like anything else,it all depends on what will work for you,and what you can afford. RICHARD GAUTHIER
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GERARD
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Re: welder question?
[re: gauthier]
04/15/03 11:11 AM
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One thing to consider too is if thesuty cycle us rated at max output. I have a lincoln ac235 (commonly known as a tombstone cause that's what it looks like). I think the duty cycle is 20% which seems low but I usually use 1/8 inch or 5/32 rod at 120 amps. I can run that stuff all day without a problem. You also have to remember you always have some down time when changing rod, chipping slag, setting up the next weld etc so, unless you weld for a living, plan on making a LOT of continuous welds, I wouldn't be OVERLY concerned with what looks like a low duty cycle.
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gauthier
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Re: welder question?
[re: GERARD]
04/15/03 07:36 PM
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Like I said it depends on what you are planning on doing.If you need it and its not there you would worry about duty cycle,I thought he wanted to know what duty cycle was,not to debate its need. RICHARD GAUTHIER
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gauthier
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Re: welder question?
[re: gauthier]
04/15/03 11:19 PM
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P.S.,you do have a good point though,it just depends on what you are planning on doing. RICHARD GAUTHIER
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CJDave
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Re: welder question?
[re: gauthier]
04/16/03 12:39 AM
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 It's pretty rare for a hobbyist-class welder operator to bump up against the duty cycle of these home garage/light industrial machines. Either the amps are fairly low on the project, or he doesn't have enough rod burning time to crowd the duty cycle.  I've seen the INPUT POWER SUPPLY fail a lot more than I've seen the machine itself trip off from too much heat buildup.  If you are plugged into a marginal circuit, going rod-after-rod will sometimes smoke the input power supply, either it will trip, or burn away a bad connection somewhere.
CJDave
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Bird
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Re: welder question?
[re: CJDave]
04/16/03 06:57 AM
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In reply to:
It's pretty rare for a hobbyist-class welder operator to bump up against the duty cycle of these home garage/light industrial machines
Probably true most of the time. For several years I had a little 110 volt, "Miller de Mexico" stick welder that worked great with small rods, but it also had a 10% duty cycle so I bumped it lots of times.
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Re: welder question?
[re: Bird]
04/16/03 08:13 AM
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but it also had a 10% duty cycle so I bumped it lots of times. I've done a fair amount of welding over the years but not paid alot of attencion to the welders, when you say bumped it do you mean it shuts itself down or what. ?? I normally don't do alot of welding but this winter I built a caddigger and that was alot of welding used almost 50lbs of 6011. most machines I have used were 100 percent as was my last one. wire inside rubbed and shorted out the winding big time. It may well cost more that it is worth to repair . machine is about 25 years old and was used when I bought it . Airco 225 wasp engine driven. I'm just trying to figure out what I might replace it with, and duty cycles seems to be a question that needs to be answered. thanks again for all your comments.
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Bird
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In reply to:
do you mean it shuts itself down
Yep, it would just shut down except for the cooling fan still running. I'd just have to wait 5 to 10 minutes for it to reset. That certainly would not be acceptable in a commercial environment, and was even a bit annoying for me, but for home use, and in no hurry, it just gave me time to have another cup of coffee. 
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Stoneheartfarm
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Re: welder question?
[re: CJDave]
04/16/03 07:05 PM
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I've tripped it on my little wire welder. Welding full power on a long bead, and both times it was a hot day (90's). On the lower settings, I've never managed to weld long enough to trip it. I believe it's something like a 20% cycle.
Steve
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CJDave
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Duty cycle is much more of a consideration on the "strictly-hobby" class of buzzbox welders. Anything that runs on 120V has limititations that you would never reach in a 220V lincoln "tombstone" for example. The circuit feeding it the 120V machine is also a limiting factor. Last Fall I welded a new floor in a grain wagon using a 120V wire welding machine that a farmer friend of ours owns, and not only did I have to end up putting in a new circuit in his machine shed to keep myself in primary power, but I did trip out the overheat mechanism in the welder a couple of times.
CJDave
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Handyman
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Re: welder question?
[re: CJDave]
04/17/03 07:34 PM
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I have a question that I haven't really had answered.
I have a 30 amp curcuit using 10/3 electrical wiring.
I plan on welding 1/4" steel and 1/8" aluminum (maybe if a mig), but definately the 1/4" steel... What do I need to look for in a welder ? What size should I consider as a weekend welder ? What would be your suggestion ?
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gauthier
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Re: welder question?
[re: Handyman]
04/17/03 08:53 PM
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Well,somebody else will have to answer the wiring thing,but since you want to weld both al. and steel and its all light duty stuff,you can get by with just a m.i.g. machine.m.i.g. is what you probably will want to weld the al. with and you change wire and gas to weld the steel.Now if you have 220/230 volts available,you want to get that in a machine.If you have to stay with 115 volt,then you are going to be limited,in the amount of current output as well as duty cycle. Shelding gas used for steel would probably be co2,for al.,argon.You will also need areulator and flow meter as well asgas hose,these will probably come with the machine,also a different type of drive rollers for al.MILLER/HOBART,AND LINCOLN would be good choices.As far as money,get as much power as you can afford.For a 220/230 input one,which is what I would recomend,you might get one for around 700 to 800 dollars.On the other hand if all you are planning on doing with it is just fix something that has broken or play around with,a 115 volt input might suit you,just keep in mind that that 115 volt won't get any more powerfull or the duty cycle won't increase as you get to wanting to do more,and a good one of those will cost you maybe 400 dollars. RICHARD GAUTHIER
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CJDave
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Re: welder question?
[re: gauthier]
04/18/03 10:46 AM
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RG has given you the advice that you need. My advice regarding the input power supply is that the 10/3 is adequate; BUT....you should open the boxes and the plug and TIGHTEN every connection, BEFORE they are cooked by prolonged overheating. That is the cheapest and best insurance policy you could possibly buy against a power supply failure. Retorque the breaker screws, AND the plug terminals....good n' tight....use your best 75 AMP  screwdriver:p
CJDave
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Handyman
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Re: welder question?
[re: CJDave]
04/19/03 03:05 PM
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Ok, so I have adiquite power then...
What about a flux core wire mig welder ?
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gauthier
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Re: welder question?
[re: Handyman]
04/19/03 06:57 PM
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Same, no gas, figure out your drive rollers. There is duel shield also, you run gas with it. Talk to your welding supply place. RICHARD GAUTHIER
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Gary_in_Indiana
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Re: welder question?
[re: Handyman]
04/20/03 11:59 AM
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I have a Hobart 175 which would work well with your situation. According to Hobart, this particular 220V MIG welder will do up to 1/4" stock in a single pass and can be operated on a 30 amp circuit and 10/2 wire (two shielded plus your ground), which is probably what you have.
I don't doubt that there are many other brands and models of welders out there which will do what you want. I mention this one because I happen to own one and did the research on the very questions you asked and wired for it using a 30 amp, 220V breaker and 10/2 wire.
Good luck with whatever you decide to get. I hope this helps.
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Handyman
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Gary, beautiful... just what I wanted to hear... How much is this welder ?
I am a trucker and and sometimes I need to repairs on my equipment or make bracing (1/4" steel) or aluminum repairs 1/16" to 1/4" so I was thinking about a mig but wasn't sure what direction to begin looking. Hobart 175 sounds perfect as I don't want to over load my electrical system.
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CJDave
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Re: welder question?
[re: Handyman]
04/20/03 10:24 PM
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Is that the HOBART HANDLER? One of our friends has a fleet of rental welders and they are Hobart Handlers because they are the perfect size for the home-body-hobbist-semi-pro-wanna-be and don't give much trouble.
CJDave
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Gary_in_Indiana
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Re: welder question?
[re: Handyman]
04/21/03 09:42 AM
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I just bought another semi tractor Saturday and I know what you mean about adding a bracket here or there.
As to the welder, it was $600 at TSC around the time I got mine last year. Since then I have seen the same welder with some more accessories in a package for the same money. Later yet I saw one at a TSC for under $500. That may have been an opened unit or something like that, though.
This model is the Hobart Handler 175.
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