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cowboydoc
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Home Schooling
11/11/04 09:25 AM
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Well I think the time has come to home school our daughters. I won't even go into the public school mess and the crap they are doing to our kids these days. Any recommendations for good programs, internet courses, etc. How did you do it? How is working out? What about college acceptance? Thanks for any help.
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Hakim
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Hi Cowboydoc,
We homeschooled our sons Ibrahim & Muhammad from about 3rd grade thru the end of high school. They both "attended college," at the State University of New York at Binghamton, considered the "Harvard" of the NY state university system. Straight A's for both of them.
I could tell you everything about home schooling. It is not right for everyone, I suppose, but for most people it is the answer to your richest dreams for your kids. They will just love it, specially on your farms.
For several years we "did it all" ourselves (in New York) and filed the "quarterly reports" and related stuff for the school district.
Then we enrolled them in a physical, non-traditional school, Oak Meadow School. Oak Meadow has several levels they can provide--- assigned teachers and curriculum, evaluation portfolio style, and some that just do an annual grade. Prices vary.
The nice thing about Oak Meadow is that they are an actual state-accredited high school (in Vermont). So, your girls will get an actual high school diploma. Once you enroll them at Oak Meadow, they will "transfer" from the local school, and you need have no other interaction with the local district.
Oak Meadow also has a real, live, graduation ceremony, held in June, which our sons attended. They have one on each coast. It makes it meaningful, and gets around the "GED" problem for independent home schoolers.
Oak Meadow is one of the oldest (or maybe THE oldest) home schools in America, and as a matter of fact, provides curriculum materials for thousands of US grade schools and high schools. So, it is certainly "acceptable" in terms of the quality of the education.
The head of Oak Meadow is Dr. Lawrence Williams, who has a PhD in Education from Columbia University. I could not be higher in my praise for the experience. It costs maybe a few hundred dollars a year per student.
Link to Oak Meadow School.
There are various ways to approach homeschooling, and Oak Meadow will assist you whatever way you choose. The methods range from "school at home," meaning they do everything EXACTLY like school, just at home: pledge allegiance at 8:20, same texts books, same lunch break, same vacations, etc.
The other end of the spectrum is "unschooling," which is basically letting your kids find their own way, and you guide them. This was basically the way we went with Ibrahim & Muhammad. TBN, actually, was a significant part of their educational process for several years of high school (English, grammar, graphics/art, etc.).
I would never consider any other way except homeschooling for my children.
Hakim Chishti
Staff/Moderator
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cowboydoc
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Re: Home Schooling
[re: Hakim]
11/11/04 05:10 PM
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Hakim,
Wow I couldn't have asked for a better person to give insight on all of this. I appreciate your comments so much and really hope that I can pick your brain as this progresses. Our parent/teacher conference today cemented the fact that I am doing the right thing. I'm getting tired of getting treated like a second class citizen in my own kids lives.
I will look at the Oak site and get back to you. Thanks again for the help getting started.
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Bird
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Re: Home Schooling
[re: Hakim]
11/11/04 05:42 PM
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From what I know of your boys, you certainly did a good job, Hakim.
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Hakim
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Re: Home Schooling
[re: Bird]
11/11/04 07:54 PM
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Hi Bird,
Thanks for your thoughtful and kind comments. But considering how much you have provided to all of us, especially to them, in the form of insights and wisdom, and your constant, caring oversight, not just about tractors, but the way to live one's life with honor, dignity and service, I am giving half of any credit -- to you.
Hakim Chishti
Staff/Moderator
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CJDave
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 My experience with home skool kids is that their education is no better than what their parents can give them. If the parents are sharp and well educated, it's OK; otherwise there will be gaps in their education that you can drive a truck through. I had a kid working for me who was a hi skool (home school) grad and he could barely write. By that I mean he could barely form letters let along form sentences and paragraphs. In home schooling, so much depends on the parents. I recently sat in on a high school business class and the teacher made several comments about the Bush administration that were inaccurate and of a definite liberal slant. The 20-minute educational TV program they watched at the beginning of the class was also liberal-slanted.  The BIG ADVANTAGE to home schooling is that the kids will not be taught to challenge what they have learned at home as far as values are concerned. Many schools are liberal, pro-homo, anti-God, and VERY subjective when it comes to morality and values. 
CJDave
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fivestring
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Good on you, Doc.
Good luck and hope everything works out good.
Gary
Bluegrass Music ...
Finger-pickin' good!
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BrianP
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Re: Home Schooling
[re: CJDave]
11/12/04 03:39 PM
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OK ......
Perish the thought a dopey Canuck should intercede, especially within the context of 'pro homo, anti-god, etc., etc..' 
Our major issue, and our sole issue, was the quality of education our kids would get. Public school is lowest common denominator and expects everybody to learn at the same rate. Some kids learn to read faster than others, some may be quicker in math and slower in reading.
Public schools frustrate and impede bright kids and slower kids.
Properly designed home schooling should be 'just right': always challenging the kids, but never making them feel stupid. These days, a bright kid is likely to be prescribed Ritalin, or sent to counseling. Not so bright kids may be sentence to ‘special’ classes. If there was an interest in education at public schools, the advanced kids would be challenged more, and the not so advanced kids would have their reading, or math, or whatever, worked on to help them catch up, not abandoned.
Some parents take home schooling seriously, some not so much. My wife considers it a full time job and is very good at it. Our neighbors are a different story.
I’d suggest anybody considering home schooling do two things: 1) contact the local school principal and see if there are any support systems for home schoolers such as curricula, and so on, and 2) see if there are any local home schooling organizations.
For the record, we believe it is possible (and necessary) to teach morality, ethics, and so on at home. I can understand devout parents not wanting to participate in a (so called) secular public school system. Most poeple you meet on a day to day basis went to public school. Most can't (or don't) read, few can write intelligently, and the general lever of practical understanding of science and math is abysmal.
I get a little confused by some people’s idea of morality: it is unclear to me where, if ever, Jesus commanded people to be ‘anti-homo’. I thought the general rule of thumb was ‘do unto others …’
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RMeadows
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We homeshool 3 kids, 13, 10 and 7. There are many options. We use Alpha-Omega and Saxon for our lessons.
What you need to do is contact a local homeshool group. Homeshoolers are always willing to help each other. This way you get all the local info you need.
Try www.homeschool.com and http://www.hslda.org. Both of these are great resources. Also, a local resource is http://www.eduevals.com/resources.htm
Roger Meadows
TiAnViCa Ranch
Mulberry, Florida
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fadams
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Hello cowboydoc. I am new to the forum but am a veteran homeschooler and couldn't help posting to this thread. I have nine children, four natural and five multiracial adopted. We have home educated for twelve years. I can not say enough good about it. First, it keeps our family integrity intact. Our childrens best friends are their siblings and parents. The educational schedule is flexible. The boys and I run a trap line during the weekdays. We ski as a family on Tuesdays at the local ski resort on "Homeschoolers Day". I don't have to have "spring break" off to take vacation with the kids. We take vacation whenever we want. We work, study, play, eat, and worship together so our values are their values. I think you avoid the "generation gap" problems particularly in the teen years because of this. Second, it is easy to achieve academic excellence in the home school environment. The teacher student ratio is small. You can choose among a wide variety of excellent commercially produced curriculum. The teachers (you) really care. The teachers (you again) know the students needs, strengths, and weaknesses and can taylor the pace and material accordingly. We have some naturally bright children that we have advanced quickly. We also have a deaf child with a cochlear implant that has special needs we attend to. So we can be as flexible as needed. We have used various curricula such as calvert, christian liberty, abeka, and covenant. Mary Pride's book The Big Book of Home Schooling evaluates these. A piano teacher comes to our house to give the older children individual lessons. Our rule is you can play any instrument you want as long as it is the piano. We also rely heavily on the internet for courses such as Latin, literature, and writing using ISLAS and Wes Callahan's Great Books. As for college entrance, we just sent our first off to Belhaven College in Mississippi on a full academic scholarship based on her SAT of 1410. She got in every college she applied to and was offerred half to full scholarships to several. My 13 year old scored 1380 on his first attempt. This is not meant to brag but to show how well homeschooling can work. HSLDA data does indeed show superior test scores compared to public schools.
There are costs to be counted before homeschooling. It is a big time committment for my wife (but hey, so is nine kids). It requires a lot of support, encouragement, and discipline (wait until your father gets home!) from me. It can be done on a shoestring but we budget $500-1000 per month for it. Criticism from relatives, neighbors, press, etc. are common but becomming less so as it proves itself in the educational marketplace.
I could go on but won't. Hook up with a good local homeschool group, join HSLDA, and enjoy the blessing of educating your children at home.
Frank
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Hakim
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Re: Home Schooling
[re: fadams]
12/05/04 07:48 AM
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Hi Frank,
Thank you for one of the best essays on the glory of home schooling I have ever read. And congratulations to your children for their excellent achievements, which I am sure will continue to expand as they grow into fabulous human beings in their adulthood. You and your wife are just about the perfect parents.
Our experiences in home schooling mirror your almost exactly. TBN is the "product" of home schoolers.
Many, many people ask me (when they meet my sons) "how did you ever get them to turn out that way?" They mean, clear, polite, intelligent, healthy, etc. I just say, "We spent time with them."
I think that is the #1 key to success in home schooling -- you are there with them and can really and truly know your children, and they of course get to be influenced by you and your wife in thousands of positive ways. 
All the best,
Hakim Chishti
Staff/Moderator
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cowboydoc
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Re: Home Schooling
[re: Hakim]
12/14/04 04:41 PM
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Well the first few weeks were pretty tough and I must admit I thought we might have done the wrong thing. However, my wife and I rearraged our schedules and set specific time apart to teach the girls. My wife has taken on our first grader and I'm working with our fourth grader. Now that we have a schedule it's going very well.
Before when I would ask how school was you got a canned answer. I feel so much better now knowing what they need to work on. When we're driving or have down time at rodeos and shows it's easy to quiz them on problems or go over difficult material.
We're still learning and fitting it all together but I can't see ever sending them back to public school now.
Thank you all for your advice.
Richard
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Pat
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Home schooling is just like a lot of other things.
If you want it done right you often have to do it yourself!
 Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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fivestring
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Good on you, Doc.
You determination will pay big dividends later in their life.
Gary
Bluegrass Music ...
Finger-pickin' good!
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RaT
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Very good informative post. I have a 3 year old son and am just now understanding what the worry and concern about public education is all about. I am inspired to learn more about the various home methods mentioned here
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Leesa
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Re: Home Schooling
[re: RaT]
04/29/05 04:50 PM
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I've thought about homeschooling for awhile. Now that my son is in middle school and has learned stuff from other kids that he should not know, I wish I would of started him off in homeschooling.
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Tevi
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Re: Home Schooling
[re: Leesa]
04/30/05 11:48 AM
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I don't think it's to late.My work keeps me at public scholls 90% of the time and it floors me what I see on a regular basis.If it wasn't for traveling so much I would do it.
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fish_wisperer
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Re: Home Schooling
[re: BrianP]
05/04/05 02:26 PM
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i think standing for good things and never being against bad things is exactly the reason why we keep getting beat up by the left. this is a good example of our problem, CJdave was right to speak against a "pro homo" agenda in our schools in a public forum, i say good job cj. i would expect certin groups to have something bad to say about it , but not fellow christians or non christians with good common sence. we can never expect to have prayer back in our schools or the 10 commandments back in the courthouse if even the people on our side jump us just for speaking against bad things.
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SLOBuds
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I am reading these postings and wondering if it is possible to do home schooling without using products that have a religious focus?
Almost all of the posts in this form have some kind of emphasis on religion. Or maybe that is just the way that it sounds to someone who has no experience with this schooling method.
If I wanted to start home schooling WITHOUT a religious emphasis, where would I go?
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Hakim
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Re: Home Schooling
[re: SLOBuds]
05/06/05 05:18 PM
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Hi,
Glad to hear you are considering home schooling. The stats are that about 50% of home schoolers are "faith-based" in curriculum, and the other 50% are non-Christian, or more or less secular.
We enrolled our children in Oak Meadow School Oak Meadow Web Site, where they attended for most of grade school, and graduated from high school there. Your child(ren) will receive an actual state high school diploma from Oak Meadow. Not all home school s can do so. Oak Meadow accepts students of all faiths, nationalites and backgrounds.
Our sons own and operate this CountryByNet.com forum, and also www.tractorbynet.com and several other major sites.
They both attended college at SUNY Binghamton in New York right after graduating form Oak Meadow.
I could not praise our experience with them more highly.
You will love it. More importanty, your kids will be very happy.
Hakim Chishti
Staff/Moderator
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SLOBuds
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Re: Home Schooling
[re: Hakim]
05/06/05 09:03 PM
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Thank you Hakim.
All of my children are adults. I am not considring home schooling for my children. I am just trying to educate myself a little bit about how the process works. And probably I could actually research this on the net, but this group seems to be fairly active and also seems happy to answer questions.
Almost everyone I know who does home schooling seems to have a faith-based reason. And usually it is a Christian faith. I never recall knowing someone who is Jewish or Muslim or athesist who does home schooling. This is probably because I just haven't met those people.
The parents of those children always appear to be of high moral standards. And the children seem to be happy, well-adjusted, and smart. The fear that non-home-schoolers show towards home schoolers is mystifying to me.
Thank you for the information Hakim. I will look at that web site.
Martin
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Hakim
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Re: Home Schooling
[re: SLOBuds]
05/06/05 10:54 PM
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Hi Martin,
The number of families home schooling has increased dramatically over the past 10 to 15 years.
You can find a lot of information here American Home schooling Assn. .
We happen to be a Muslim family, and interacted with all kinds of other home schoolers, including various Christian religious groups.
I think for many people who desire to make a life of sincere religious behaviors the bias of their life, home schooling is about the only viable alternative to public schooling.
Catholics, of course, have had their own school system for more than 100 years. Jews have their own schools as well, including special school after regular public school for those who do not attend the Jewish school full time.
Many more "secular" people are joining home schooling, simply because of the deterioration of academic standards, violence, moral issues, etc. that plague public schools.
I never was interested to "debate" those who oppose home schooling. It was fantastic for us.
I am sure there are some parents who are ill-equipped to "teach" their children adequately. But from my experience of home schooling for almost 15 years, I never saw any evidence of children not properly supervised, taught and loved while home schooling. The opposite was true in my experience.
The main "argument" we always heard was that our children woulkdn't be "socilaized" (whatever that is supposed to mean). That is just ludicrous. Anyone who has met home schooled children can easily see their maturity, intellignce, sincerity and well-rounded personalities.
Plus, they outperform the general school populations in terms of academic acheivement, by several gfrades levels, and have for many decades.
Good luck in the information search.
Hakim Chishti
Staff/Moderator
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Tevi
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Re: Home Schooling
[re: Hakim]
05/07/05 08:51 AM
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I think it's the fact that most partents want to raise their children in a morally correct enviroment.The problem with public schools is that discipline is based on religious morals and since you have to seperate religion from state then they can't discipline.
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SLOBuds
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Re: Home Schooling
[re: Tevi]
05/07/05 09:44 AM
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I haven't looked at actual class content recently, but what are those things that they teach in the 'morals' classes at public schools now? I read all the time in newspapers that public schools are teaching values and morals at school. What kinds of things are they teaching in those classes?
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BlueRidge
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Re: Home Schooling
[re: SLOBuds]
05/07/05 09:44 AM
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Well, you've already gotten some good links for resources for schooling, but let me add a word on the subject of legalities.
Home schooling is clearly legal in some states, and a gray area in others. But even where a state's constitution clearly spells out the right to home school, you may sometimes have problems with the authorities. There are some pretty dangerous ideologues in many public education systems, and they absolutely HATE the idea of any child being out from under their control. They will do all they can to make life miserable for you. Then there are the social workers - for the most part a very liberal group, dedicated to the idea that The State Knows Best. And then there are ignorant people and just plain cantankerous neighbors. One phone call (often anonymous) from one of this last group to someone from either of the first two, and you can be fighting the State just to keep your children in your 'custody'! Even grandparents have been known to do this to their own children because they disagreed with home schooling. Sad but true.
No, this is not an exaggeration. Yes it is the worst case, but it happens too often. And lesser problems happen more frequently.
So what to do about it? I recommend a 'religious' solution. The Home School Legal Defense Association is a Christian organization, but they accept members from all faiths and no faith. A membership will keep you informed of developing trends in your state's home school legal climate, and more importantly, will provide you with legal assistance in the event you run into trouble with the authorities. It's amazing how a phone conversation with a lawyer can calm down a hot-headed social worker on your doorstep!
Take a look at their web site and read up on some of the cases they've handled. You might be amazed at how bad things can get.
I don't say this to discourage you - on the contrary, I'm a big fan of home schooling. All 6 of mine are home schooled and I wouldn't have it any other way.
But the reality is, you are bucking the establishment, and that is always risky. An HSLDA membership is cheap insurance.
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