|
CJDave
|
|
Veteran Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 10/21/02
|
|
Posts: 860
|
|
Loc: Southeast Iowa
|
|
Substitute teaching
09/19/04 04:23 AM
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
 All the time I was out there in the business world scratching and clawing a living out of the entrepreneural landscape  I had an idea in the back of my mind that once I retired I might go into teaching.  Well, now is the time! I have been taking night classes to get my certification to teach grades 7-12 as a sub. I have a college degree and am competent in many solid subjects, so I only have to learn "classroom mechanics" and how to teach in today's out-of-control litigious atmosphere.  In modern classrooms it is all about protecting yourself from the kids whose goal it is to accuse you of SOMETHING so they can get money in a lawsuit or wreck your teaching career.  I only have two more evening classes to take at sub skool, and have already begun the background and fingerprint check needed to be certified. Subbing is just about the best gig going out here in the sticks; they pay about a hundred per day.
CJDave
Post Extras:
|
|
Bird
|
|
Veteran Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/12/02
|
|
Posts: 1694
|
|
Loc: Corinth, TX, USA
|
|
Re: Substitute teaching
[re: CJDave]
09/19/04 05:11 AM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
Dave, I think that's a fine idea. "Professional" school teachers are, of course, needed and many do a fine job. I have a lot of admiration for them, but I think it's a good idea to bring in teachers with "real world" business experience, too.
Post Extras:
|
|
rozett
|
|
Silver Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/12/02
|
|
Posts: 130
|
|
|
|
Re: Substitute teaching
[re: CJDave]
09/19/04 08:47 AM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
I am in my third year of being a sub. I enjoy doing it and I'm often requested by the regular teachers. Last year I sub'd 150 days during the school year. Although I will go where ever the coordinator needs me, I am almost always in the high school or middle school. I'm only 5 miles from home and out at 2 pm. This leaves plenty of time to work the farm chores.
Here in Maine, you do not need to be certified to be a sub. We get $60/day with 2 years of college, $65/day with 4 year degree, and $70/day if Maine certified. We do need to be finger-printed and have the background check.
I have done several long-term sub jobs, including 9 weeks at 8th grade language arts and 10 weeks of algebra/geometry. But in those roles, the sub corrects all of the papers and develops the daily plans. But I prefer the daily assignments because I walk in execute the teachers plan and go home. No papers to grade nor plans to develop.
One thing that you should know is that these schools are not like when we were in school.
Post Extras:
|
|
Al_Wa
|
|
Silver Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/12/02
|
|
Posts: 237
|
|
|
|
Re: Substitute teaching
[re: CJDave]
09/19/04 10:13 AM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
Good for you Dave, I admire teachers more than any other profession.
Post Extras:
|
|
CJDave
|
|
Veteran Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 10/21/02
|
|
Posts: 860
|
|
Loc: Southeast Iowa
|
|
Re: Substitute teaching
[re: rozett]
09/20/04 07:18 PM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
After spending just two periods in school observing the teacher's technique, it is clear that the teachers can no longer hope to make dilligent students out of kids whose parents have completely abdicated thier responsibility as policy makers and controllers of their kids and family. Two of the kids in first period were right out of the sack; hair sticking out all over and crud in their eyes. Those two kids slept most of the time. So the teachers can only do what they can do..... the rest is hopeless; and that's pretty much what we've been taught in sub skool.
CJDave
Post Extras:
|
|
CJDave
|
|
Veteran Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 10/21/02
|
|
Posts: 860
|
|
Loc: Southeast Iowa
|
|
Re: Substitute teaching
[re: rozett]
09/22/04 07:54 AM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
rozett...... I'm taking your comments to my next class at sub skool so I can read them to the other students. There is some good info in there. I changed your name to an alias of course to maintain anonimity. I used the name Lem N. Squezins as the author of the commentary. And before you start to laugh, you should know that Lem's last name is correctly pronounced Squa-Zinz....he's French. 
CJDave
Post Extras:
|
|
gsganzer
|
|
Silver Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 07/31/03
|
|
Posts: 196
|
|
Loc: Denton, TX
|
|
Re: Substitute teaching
[re: CJDave]
09/22/04 04:46 PM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
I admire anyone that's willing to teach in this day and age. My best friend was a sub at a school near Dallas, while he was finishing his masters degree. After the first day, he said he'll never send his kids to public school.
If kids got into a fight, they had to attend "anger management" classes instead of suspension like when we were kids. All the kids had cell phones, brought food to class and dressed like tramps. He said they showed no respect and didn't understand responsibility. There were a number that continually disrupted class.
I don't blame the kids. It's the parents fault. Parents today expect the teachers to teach their kids the ABC's, ethics, morals and manners. I have a 5 month old and I'm already fretting grade school for her. I'm glad there's still some good folks like yourself that are willing to teach. Too bad they can't make the parents attend class.
Post Extras:
|
|
CJDave
|
|
Veteran Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 10/21/02
|
|
Posts: 860
|
|
Loc: Southeast Iowa
|
|
Re: Substitute teaching
[re: gsganzer]
09/23/04 06:17 AM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
 By the time a kid has finished hi skool he has watched 30,000 hours of TV. What they learn from TV is that every problem is settled with a handgun; people hop in and out of bed.....anyone's bed.......when ever the mood strikes them; and that homosexuality is somehow a "gay" and desireable lifestyle. Of the folks who program TV and radio; make movies and record albums; ONLY 7% ever attend church. Add to that the incessant drumbeat of liberalism that is preached every day in many classrooms, and it is NO WONDER that the citizens we graduate have no dependable moral center.
CJDave
Post Extras:
|
|
rozett
|
|
Silver Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/12/02
|
|
Posts: 130
|
|
|
|
Re: Substitute teaching
[re: CJDave]
09/23/04 08:56 AM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
Dave, I completely agree. Although the schools are different today, it is the parents abdication that has caused the biggest change. When I was a youngster, my mother was a stay at home mom. When I got in trouble in school, the consequences at school were small compared to what would happen to me at home. When I became a parent, I vowed that I would never utter the words "just wait till your father gets home".
Kids today seem to have little consequence for their actions. Even in the school, if I send a kid to the office for a behavior problem, all that happens is that he/she sits out the period and then goes to their next class. I try very hard to be fair with the kids and I usually give two warning before I take action. I give them a little speech about acceptable behavior and the consequences. It is then their decision. I tell them that if they choose to do nothing during that period, they can do that (although I explain that I think it is a bad choice). But they will not prevent the rest of the class from participating in their education.
One of the nice things about being a sub is that I don't need to deal with the behavior.... just send them to the office. I tell them that this is not a democracy, it's a benevolant dictatorship and I am the dictator! 
In our school, the administration does not seem to have the principle parts to enforce the rules. And part of that goes back to the parents. If the school doesn't get the support from the parents (like they did from mine) then it is a losing battle.
Post Extras:
|
|
Pat
|
|
Veteran Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/15/02
|
|
Posts: 4904
|
|
Loc: SouthCentral Oklahoma
|
|
Re: Substitute teaching
[re: rozett]
10/10/04 11:44 PM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
How depressing... I have no doubt that it is as told above in this thread but I still find it depressing. My aunt taught highschool biology for just under 40 years and had a nervous breakdown at the end of her tenure. She just threw in the towl and walked away with a reduced retirement.
The decline of the functionality of our schools has been increasing for decades. High school diplomas now are often just attendance certificates passed out after the requisite number of "social" promotions.
I have only taught adults. I taught boating safety and seamanship topics to adult learners for 10 years as a US Coast Gurard Aux volunteer. I also taught college classes for seniors in the computer science major.
In '93-'94 I went back to grad school (again) for yet another piece of paper "Instructional Technology" which teaches you to engineer training solutions including the producton of training materials, especially computer based but also paper based. I have little experience with pedagogy but thought when the pace of my activities died down a bit I might want to teach at a VOTECH or whatever (more mature students than high school.)
Although I thought I would really enjoy very much teaching physics, programing, or photography at a high school level I just had to give up the idea as I can't see anyway I could survive today's reality. A good friend retired from academia (taught both college and high school but took retirement ASAP due to deteriorating classroom conditions and did 7 years of real estate sales before full retirement. He is a far far better social survivor than I and if he bailed I would be ill advised to go there.
I have nothing but respect for those who can "git 'er done" in today's classroom situation. It just isn't for me. I have never taught people who didn't want to learn.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
Post Extras:
|
|
Yoblonda
|
|
New Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/04/04
|
|
Posts: 10
|
|
|
|
Are you into philosophical debates?
[re: CJDave]
10/13/04 04:10 AM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
Here is a URL regarding the agenda to remove Christianity from society at large. In a nutshell, it discusses the role Horace Mann, the "Father of the common public school", and Robert Owen, one of the fathers of modern socialism, and others.
http://www.littlegeneva.com/docs/education.htm
Another URL regarding general moral decline in the United States and Horace Mann's purposes.
http://www.jewsformorality.org/moral_decline.htm
I've been in the schools. I taught 7-12 science for five years, two of those after I had already been burned out once and took a break to raise my children to school age. In Missouri, the average new teacher burns out and quits the public school system after 3 years, never to return. Sadly, with only five years of experience, I've got more teaching experience than >50% of the Missouri teaching population. Most of the burnout is due to the fact that the average teacher works 60+ hours a week during the school year, discipline is at an all time ineffective low, and the state's demand for continuing education for certification. It is difficult to find balance in your life as a teacher.
Life as a substitute is better because you have time to live your life outside, but in the classroom it can be worse because in the students' eyes, you're not a "real teacher". IME, the classes who behaved best for substitutes faced double the consequences for misbehavior upon the teacher's return.
Good Luck,
Yolanda
Post Extras:
|
|
Gatorboy
|
|
Gold Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/13/02
|
|
Posts: 398
|
|
Loc: Bel Air, Maryland
|
|
Re: Substitute teaching
[re: Yoblonda]
10/13/04 05:58 AM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
Are you into philosophical debates?
Not really, but I am into keeping the Subject the same within a thread and not changing it.
:: D A V E
:: g a t o r b o y
Post Extras:
|
|
Yoblonda
|
|
New Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/04/04
|
|
Posts: 10
|
|
|
|
I was only digging a little deeper, not off track.
[re: Gatorboy]
10/13/04 09:36 AM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
You and rozett began a discussion on 9/23/04. You mentioned the imbalance of christians represented in the visual media, and rozett talked about the parent's abdication of responsibility for their children's education. Horace Mann's agenda to promote socialism was implemented both by deliberately separating children from their parents, thereby limiting the parents' influence on their children's philosophies, and by setting up teaching schools (Normal Schools) to influence what teachers eventually taught.
The establishment of teaching schools and state certification has, by implication, led the parents of today believe that when it comes to their child's education, they are inferior to those that are formally trained, leading them to leave education to the professionals, when in fact the opposite has shown to be true. Studies have shown that by the time a home schooled child reaches the 8th grade, he or she is functioning on average 4 grade levels above publicly schooled peers.
I thought that the links I provided were relevant to this discussion. Besides, I personally believe that it is never a bad idea to know the historical contexts that brought us to our present state.
I did not mean to offend, and apologize if I did.
Yolanda
Post Extras:
|
|
Gatorboy
|
|
Gold Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/13/02
|
|
Posts: 398
|
|
Loc: Bel Air, Maryland
|
|
Re: Substitute teaching
[re: Yoblonda]
10/13/04 10:43 AM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
Please don't change the Subject heading. When I look at the recent posts, it appears you have started a new thread when in fact you have not.
:: D A V E
:: g a t o r b o y
Post Extras:
|
|
RikBallard
|
|
New Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 03/05/04
|
|
Posts: 17
|
|
Loc: Central Texas
|
|
Re: I was only digging a little deeper, not off track.
[re: Yoblonda]
10/13/04 12:25 PM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
I enjoyed reading your perspective on this topic and I certainly don't mind you changing the subject line at all. Sometimes we just have to out run the post patrol. 
Post Extras:
|
|
Gatorboy
|
|
Gold Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/13/02
|
|
Posts: 398
|
|
Loc: Bel Air, Maryland
|
|
|
Sometimes we just have to out run the post patrol
Muhammad,
Any chance you can implement the same safeguards here on CBN as you have on TBN as far as changing the subject line?
I know you are aware of the problems it causes.
:: D A V E
:: g a t o r b o y
Post Extras:
|
|
Yoblonda
|
|
New Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/04/04
|
|
Posts: 10
|
|
|
|
Re: Substitute Teaching
[re: Gatorboy]
10/13/04 02:06 PM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
I'm sorry. I misunderstood.  I should have realized that leaving the subject line intact was what you were getting at. I personally prefer the different subject lines because it helps me to keep track of who is responding to whom. But it's not everyone's.
Yolanda
Post Extras:
|
|
Gatorboy
|
|
Gold Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/13/02
|
|
Posts: 398
|
|
Loc: Bel Air, Maryland
|
|
Re: Substitute Teaching
[re: Yoblonda]
10/13/04 03:09 PM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
I personally prefer the different subject lines because it helps me to keep track of who is responding to whom.
That works great for forums that are threaded-view based -- however CBN and TBN are more flat-view based. You can tell who responded to whom by the Re:Username after the Subject Line.
If the subject needs to change, that should be an indication to start a NEW thread and not morph the original one.
:: D A V E
:: g a t o r b o y
Post Extras:
|
|
RonNY
|
|
Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 04/07/04
|
|
Posts: 51
|
|
Loc: NY
|
|
Re: Substitute teaching
[re: Bird]
01/09/05 08:31 PM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
Dave,My husband shared this site with me and I got interested in it. I also was a sub, then I got a full time teacher aide position, working with children that had learning difficulties. Each student had a unique way of picking up a subject and when I was able to get their personal way down pat the rest of the year was fun. This year I am challenged with teaching a student who cannot talk, learns by touching and eye contact. It was scarry at first, and now I am looking for new ways to communicate with him and I and everyone observing us are amazed at how much he has accomplished. By the way a sub in rural central NY gets $50.00 a day.
'Good Luck.
Post Extras:
|
|
CJDave
|
|
Veteran Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 10/21/02
|
|
Posts: 860
|
|
Loc: Southeast Iowa
|
|
Re: Substitute teaching
[re: RonNY]
01/22/05 04:49 AM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
I have taught several classes where some of the students had resource specialists right there in the room with them. Sometimes the students are pulled out for part of the class, and sometimes they stay the whole period. I am familiar with the "consulting role model" concept where the resource specialist identifies the learning style that works for the kid and then shows the teacher how to teach to it. I have also had classes where the professional "disrupters" are catered to by resource specialists who take them elsewhere to teach the lesson for that day. One of those brats came back after about half a period and I could see that he was cocked and ready to disrupt the class. I gave him a look that would melt cast iron and told him to sit in his seat and be quiet. That was the last I heard from him for the rest of the hour. It's sometimes an advantage to be an "unknown quantity" to these kids so you aren't locked into the routines that they use on their regular teacher.
CJDave
Post Extras:
|
|
rozett
|
|
Silver Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/12/02
|
|
Posts: 130
|
|
|
|
Substitute teaching
[re: Yoblonda]
01/25/05 07:54 AM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
In reply to:
The establishment of teaching schools and state certification has, by implication, led the parents of today believe that when it comes to their child's education, they are inferior to those that are formally trained, leading them to leave education to the professionals, when in fact the opposite has shown to be true.
Yoblonda, I think you draw too narrow a definition for 'education'. The school system has the children for less than 50% of their waking hours. So more than 50% of the 'education' takes place outside of schools. By their education and certification, teachers are better equipped to further the childrens education in reading, writing, and 'rithmatic (and history, science, etc). But the other 'education' of the children in subjects like honesty, personal relations/interactions, values, work ethic, etc have the potential to be much more influenced by parents (and families) than the schools. But it is harder for parents & families today. Often both parents work and then have limited time/energy after they get home.
My point is, that parents still have the major responsibility for much of their childrens education. I do not believe their is a great conspiracy to seperate parents from children. Many parents do that on their own.
Post Extras:
|
|
cowboydoc
|
|
Veteran Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/11/02
|
|
Posts: 642
|
|
|
|
Re: Substitute teaching
[re: Pat]
01/25/05 10:10 AM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
How depressing... I have no doubt that it is as told above in this thread but I still find it depressing
Unfortunately Pat it is worse than depressing. Some of the things they are doing and calling it teaching is frightening. My kids are home schooled now and it was the best decision we ever made. All they do in the school system is keep throwing more and more money after a failed system. In our state we spend $14,800 on each student in school. Private schools they spend $3500. It's no wonder our kids can't learn math in school!
Post Extras:
|
|
cowboydoc
|
|
Veteran Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/11/02
|
|
Posts: 642
|
|
|
|
Re: Substitute teaching
[re: rozett]
01/25/05 10:49 AM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
Yoblonda, I think you draw too narrow a definition for 'education'. The school system has the children for less than 50% of their waking hours.
I'm not sure of your schools rozett but here our kids are in school at 8:00am. School is out at 3:30pm. By the time they ride the bus and get home it's between 4 and 5. When my girls were in public school they were up at 6am, did their chores, and on the bus by 7:30. We usually didn't see them again until 4:30 or 5:00. That's 9 or 10 hours.
I completely agree with Yolanda and think if anything her view is too narrow of what is going on in the schools. What she is saying is right on target with what has happened in our schools. I'm not sure about where you are.
By their education and certification, teachers are better equipped to further the childrens education in reading, writing, and 'rithmatic (and history, science, etc). Unfortunately with the way teaching is applied in todays classrooms I think most parents are way better equipped than most teachers to provide their childrens education.
My point is, that parents still have the major responsibility for much of their childrens education. I do not believe their is a great conspiracy to seperate parents from children. Many parents do that on their own.
You are right that some parents do separate themselves from their kids on their own. However with our interaction with the schools they try and do the same thing. We are not to question how the kids are being taught, we're not to question the purpose of what they're learning, textbooks are so slanted and many times completely misrepresent the truth. Don't get me wrong here I'm not blaming the teachers. It's the system. In our effort to conform and make everything the same, delete religion, make everything "socially" acceptable, no discipline, etc. the schools have created more of an environment of chaos rather than one of learning. It's easy to see why MO teachers only last three years.
Post Extras:
|
|
rozett
|
|
Silver Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/12/02
|
|
Posts: 130
|
|
|
|
Re: Substitute teaching
[re: cowboydoc]
01/25/05 08:59 PM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
We are all in agreement, that the public school system is a mess and failing miserably. I think there is too much emphasis on mainstreaming and special needs education, which drains tons of money. I think the system has 'dumbed down' the education to the least common denominator, so that nearly everyone can be 'successful' and pass school. This helps the kids on the low end and hurts everyone else. It leaves the abstract thinkers and gifted/talented students out in the cold. School boards think too much about politics and not enough about education. And organizations like the NEA don't care a **** about education, they are just another labor union, more interested in keeping their jobs.
That said, I do not believe that this mess has anything to do with a conspiracy to remove christianity from society. I think it does have a lot to do with the abdication by parents. Some of these kids in high school (where I sub every day) have horrible manners, are extremely disrespectful to others, and think mostly of themselves. Those are values and skills they learn at home from the time they are two or three years old. I also believe that, no matter what you tell them, it is mostly about the example you set for them. If they see that it's OK for you to cheat on taxes, to lie to others, and be prejudiced towards others, then you've taught them that that behavior is acceptable. In our family it's not acceptable!
We were fortunate as our two oldest daughters did well in high school and went off the college. But we pulled the youngest from public school after eigth grade and put her in a small private school. Now, all three have graduated from college and one with an MBA. But I feel that much of their success and work ethic was our involvement and the example we set.
Post Extras:
|
|
cowboydoc
|
|
Veteran Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/11/02
|
|
Posts: 642
|
|
|
|
Re: Substitute teaching
[re: rozett]
01/26/05 07:39 AM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
I think the system has 'dumbed down' the education to the least common denominator, so that nearly everyone can be 'successful' and pass school. This helps the kids on the low end and hurts everyone else. It leaves the abstract thinkers and gifted/talented students out in the cold. School boards think too much about politics and not enough about education. And organizations like the NEA don't care a **** about education, they are just another labor union, more interested in keeping their jobs.
Exactly right Rozett.
I think it does have a lot to do with the abdication by parents. Some of these kids in high school (where I sub every day) have horrible manners, are extremely disrespectful to others, and think mostly of themselves.
I do agree with you that parents are somewhat responsible for this. I also believe and have seen and experienced that jr. high and high school are probably more to blame for bad behavior in kids than the parents in alot of cases. I know alot of the bad stuff I learned didn't come from home it came from school. To be cool and fit in you had to do alot of the bad stuff. At home I got it good if I tryed that crap. Same thing I see with alot of kids who are patients. I personally know their parents and their home life. The behavior I see when I'm at the school does not happen at their homes. It was also the final straw in determining to home school our girls. My oldest started all the popularity wars and everyday more time was spent on who liked who that day, who was no longer friends, lying to each other, gossiping, hurting feelings, making fun of others, etc than the school work. That stuff did not and has never gone on in our house. Since we started home schooling I have my daughter back again and not the "person" school was teaching her to be.
Post Extras:
|
Previous
Index
Next
Flat
Threaded