|
Mosey
|
|
Gold Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/12/02
|
|
Posts: 436
|
|
Loc: Southern Indiana
|
|
Please tell me about dogs
02/03/03 10:03 AM
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
After trying cats (and failing to make it work out, see Well, I started feeling guilty), my wife and I are considering getting a dog for kids (6 1/2 year old twins, boy and girl). We would get one in the summer for the kids birthday (in July).
But, before I do this, I want to know what to expect. We had dogs (mostly beagles) when I was growing up, but I haven't had a dog around in over 20 years. It will be an outside dog. We want something good with kids, and we both like golden retrievers so we're leaning heavily toward one of them.
I'm assuming a dog can be trained to poop in a certain area and not all over the yard, garage floor, flower beds, gravel, etc. If this is not true, please tell me about it now!
My other concern is barking. When I've lived in the city in the past there were always dogs barking. The neighbors dog barked at me when I went out into my own back yard. They barked at night and kept me awake. Either the owners weren't there, were deaf, or they just didn't care. Now that I'm in the country, it's not so bad because the neighbors are farther away. But, I still hear dogs barking a lot and wonder why the owners don't do something about it. I think it's mostly when the owners are not home or when they're asleep and they must be heavy sleepers and/or hard of hearing so it doesn't bother them. Is it possible to train a dog not to bark all the time? I understand they are going to bark sometimes and they can warn of intruders, but it doesn't do any good if they are always "crying wolf". Can a dog be trained to only bark at certain things (car pulled in the driveway) and not others (squirrel in the woods)? I don't want to be an annoying neighbor because my dog barks too much!
The beagles we had when I was growing up usually ended up dead in the road. They would get on a rabbit track and didn't pay attention. Can dogs be trained to stay out of the road?
Post Extras:
|
|
WVBill
|
|
Silver Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/12/02
|
|
Posts: 138
|
|
Loc: Eastern Panhandle of West Virginia
|
|
Re: Please tell me about dogs
[re: Mosey]
02/03/03 10:59 AM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
First, from what I've read, "experts" recommend never giving an animal as a birthday/christmas/etc. gift. It adds a level of stress to forming the relationship that is unhelpful.
You said: I'm assuming a dog can be trained to poop in a certain area and not all over the yard,
Based on my experience and observation, your assumption is wrong. Dogs can be housebroken but once you let them outside they pretty much just follow natural instincts. The dogs I've had, even if we tok them out on a lead and tried to make it to a certain location, if they needed to go before that, they went. I think they can get the concept of where NOT to go, but not the concept of where TO go.
On the subject of barking, some dog breeds are notorious "barkers" and some are not. Even within breeds, some appear to bark more than others. Dogs are very social, "pack" animals. You will become their "pack" and many of their habits, good and bad will depend on how much you interact, socialize and get to know them.
Please don't take offense, but from reading your saga of the cats and your criteria for a dog, I think you may just not be an "animal person".
WVBill
Post Extras:
|
|
Boondox
|
|
Gold Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/11/02
|
|
Posts: 326
|
|
Loc: Northern Vermont
|
|
Re: Please tell me about dogs
[re: Mosey]
02/03/03 11:15 AM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
Mosey -- Please don't get a dog, especially a golden, if you intend to keep it outside. To WVBill's comments about dogs being social animals I would add a heartfelt "Amen!" Goldens are so incredibly social that the only form of punishment we use is throwing them outside away from the "pack." It is incredibly hurtful, and a five minute time out is incredibly effective.
Of the 200+ goldens we've helped find new homes, the worst behavioral problems -- and all of the dogs we had to put down -- were the result of being "outside" dogs. And those barking dogs you referred to, my bet is 99% of them are in the yard away from their pack. A bored dog is a barking dog.
No offense intended, but have you considered a nice cockatiel..?
Pete
Ragtag Golden Retriever Rescue
Lamoille County, Vermont
Post Extras:
|
|
Mosey
|
|
Gold Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/12/02
|
|
Posts: 436
|
|
Loc: Southern Indiana
|
|
Re: Please tell me about dogs
[re: WVBill]
02/03/03 11:20 AM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
WVBill - Thanks for the advice. It may be true that I'm not an "animal person", and if so I need to find that out before I get any more pets. But, the pet is not for me, mainly for the kids. So, I need to find out if I can just at least tolerate him/her and not keep having the constant battles like with the cats. I do think it's fair to say that there a lot of people out there that own pets that are also not "animal people", such as the ones that let there dogs bark continuously, let them roam around uncontrolled, leave them to be alone in a pen all the time or in an apartment while they are gone from 6am to 11pm, etc. If I'm going to be a pet owner, I want to be a humane one!
Post Extras:
|
|
PhilNH5
|
|
Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/12/02
|
|
Posts: 36
|
|
|
|
Re: Please tell me about dogs
[re: Mosey]
02/03/03 11:23 AM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
Danny,
I have always had dogs. Always inside ones - members of the household actually. I have two now, one of which is a Golden. I believe this breed would make a terrible "outside" dog. They are definitely people dogs. Mika's greatest joy in life is to be hanging around with us. He is never not near a family member. I had another Golden 5 years back and she was the same way. If Boondox sees this he may offer good insights about Goldens.
Regarding barking dogs. I think they do it cause they are bored or lonely. My dogs both present and past bark at a percieved threat or unsual sound. Great for security. I get up and investigate when one of my dogs barks. My neighbors outside dogs bark and I completely tune them out. Their house could be robbed and I would never know cause I ignore the barking. And since the dogs are chained outside they pose no threat other than noise to any would be intruder.
Dogs are definetly "high maintenance" when compared to cats. They need training, exercise, food etc
Phil
Post Extras:
|
|
PhilNH5
|
|
Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/12/02
|
|
Posts: 36
|
|
|
|
Re: Please tell me about dogs
[re: PhilNH5]
02/03/03 11:24 AM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
Well I see Boondox did reply while I was typing.
Phil
Post Extras:
|
|
Mosey
|
|
Gold Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/12/02
|
|
Posts: 436
|
|
Loc: Southern Indiana
|
|
Re: Please tell me about dogs
[re: Boondox]
02/03/03 11:25 AM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
"No offense intended, but have you considered a nice cockatiel..?"
I'm not surprised to get bashed, I expected to have a bad reputation regarding pets due to the "cats saga". Give me some slack though, I tried very hard to make the cats situation work out.
As for keeping the dogs in or out, my brother had a very happy golden retriever that was an outside dog and lived to a ripe old age.
Post Extras:
|
|
RichZ
|
|
Veteran Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/12/02
|
|
Posts: 558
|
|
Loc: Cambridge, New York in beautiful Washington County, next to Vermont
|
|
Re: Please tell me about dogs
[re: Mosey]
02/03/03 11:43 AM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
Danny, as Pete said, dogs are social animals. While you may occaisionally find a dog that doesn't mind being alone outside, that is certainly not the norm. Dogs consider your family the pack, and want to spend their time with the family. An outside dog will almost certainly be barking often and loud to get the attention of the family. It will be hard on the dog, and even cruel to the dog. As I had tried to explain to you, cats can do well outside, because they are not social animals, dogs must have a family to constantly interact with.
As Pete suggested, I think you might want to look towards other animals as pets for the kids, though I would discourage you from any member of the parrot family (like cockatiels) as they are also very social, noisy and time consuming. How about a rabbit. They're cute, furry, can live outside in a hutch, and won't get into any trouble.
Sorry, Danny, no offense intended, but you expect animals to act within certain parameters that are just not realistic. You can't expect certain behaviors from certain animals. You have to understand their nature.
Rich
"What a long strange trip it's been."
Post Extras:
|
|
Mosey
|
|
Gold Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/12/02
|
|
Posts: 436
|
|
Loc: Southern Indiana
|
|
Re: Please tell me about dogs
[re: RichZ]
02/03/03 11:51 AM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
This is amazing. When I first researched cats (not very well I'll admit), I was told by most that they should always be kept inside. Now people are saying the same thing about dogs!?
Post Extras:
|
|
hazmat
|
|
Gold Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/11/02
|
|
Posts: 417
|
|
Loc: West Newbury, MA
|
|
Re: Please tell me about dogs
[re: Mosey]
02/03/03 11:54 AM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
Danny,
Please don't take this as additional bashing, but I've got to agree with Pete.
What makes a dog easy to train is it's desire to please the alpha dog (you & your family). If you leave him outside all the time you will have little success getting him to go where you want, not bark & all other obedience.
When we are not home, I will put the older dog out in our fenced yard (depending on the weather). He does NOT bark untill we get home. If we don't let him in, he makes serious noise until reunited with his pack. The pup is in his crate all day. Both sleep in our bedroom at night (Pup in crate) big guy on the floor untill 3am when he sneaks into bed (I'm letting him get away with that since we still don't have heat on the second floor).
Something else to consider, dogs are bigger than cats & can cause more damage than a cat. They sometimes dig holes in your yard or garden, chew the deck railing, or even chomp on the clapboards of your house (all things I've experienced) Almost always when the dog wasn't being entertained--reasons why pup is in crate all day.
If you are willing to let him into your home & family, I think a dog is a wonderful pet. If you are going to keep him outside, I don't think either you or the dog will be happy.
For all the negative things I've written, there are many more positives. People with dogs get more exercise, the unconditionaly love is comforting when you've had a rough day, the list goes on. With a little effort it is possible to get train them to be well mannered in the house. For example our boys lie down while we eat dinner, and ring a bell to be let outside. Still working on them greeting visitors well (they get excited because it is a rare event). As was our trainer's motto: Set them up for success. If you don't want them on the kitchen counter, don't leave food there. The wife will be happy because you are keeping the kitchen clean 
Stop by your local library & pick up a couple books on dog training. They should help give you an idea what you might be in for.
Hazmat
Post Extras:
|
|
Mosey
|
|
Gold Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/12/02
|
|
Posts: 436
|
|
Loc: Southern Indiana
|
|
Re: Please tell me about dogs
[re: hazmat]
02/03/03 12:23 PM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
Well, after chewing on this (and my lunch), let me make a stab at understanding dogs better.
A) The reason some dogs bark all the time is because they are alone. Either they are alone in their pen or tied up outside, or they are alone in the house or apartment. Too many people do not provide enough attention to their dogs.
This certainly fits in with what I've observed. I see dogs penned up and tied up outside all the time and they bark all the time. I've seen dogs left in houses and apartments while their owners were gone all day and they barked all day. I have always felt sorry for all these lonely dogs.
B) If a dog is kept in the house, then at least he/she gets some companionship when the owners are home. If a dog is kept outside, then he/she gets much less attention, especially when it's not nice out.
I have known and know several people with inside dogs. They are much more involved with everything that goes on. These dogs even get presents and cards for their birthday and Christmas. I've seen dogs get treated better than some kids I know.
I'm not sure what to conclude from this yet. I was told "don't get a cat unless you're going to keep it in the house" and didn't take that advice. Now I realize I should have taken that advice and not gotten the cats.
Post Extras:
|
|
Boondox
|
|
Gold Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/11/02
|
|
Posts: 326
|
|
Loc: Northern Vermont
|
|
Re: Please tell me about dogs
[re: PhilNH5]
02/03/03 02:47 PM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
Well said, Phil! A good analogy to the bored and lonely dog becoming a nuisance (or destructive) would be the bright boy left at home for extended periods of time while both parents work. Sure, some parents luck out with an angel for a kid, but far too many become social menaces by the time they reach their teen years.
I was reminded of this yesterday at another of our sledding parties. My four dogs behaved themselves and made me proud. One visitor brought her outside dog, and no matter how much she yelled and threatened, the dog would not return to her. And why should it? So it can be driven home and confined in the back yard again? Heck, I'd run the other way!
Pete
Post Extras:
|
|
Worksmart
|
|
Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/12/02
|
|
Posts: 27
|
|
Loc: S.E. Michigan
|
|
Re: Please tell me about dogs
[re: Mosey]
02/03/03 02:54 PM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
Danny - I think everyone did a great job of sharing their thoughts on this subject.
I'm a dog person and proud of it. My Newfie slings slime on the walls and ceilings. His hair is everywhere. He will have an "accident" in the house occasionally.
He is probably the best "pal" I could hope for.
I've rescued and rehabilitated a number of dogs. Some physically and others emotionally abused. Emotional abuse can occur in dogs left to entertain themselves.
Please don't go to a pet store and buy one. The conditions these dogs often come from are deplorable. I'm a firm believer in researching a dog for the situation it will be placed in. I'm not sure that's for you.
I believe the commitment to a dog is going to be even more than a cat. You WILL end up taking care of the dog. The kids will only be so responsible......they are children after all.
I don't really think you are a "dog person" from what I've read. That's just fine. Rabbits, goldfish, hamsters..etc. are all a lot less expensive($$ and emotional) experiment to see if the kids are going to be "pet/dog people" when they get older.
From your last post...... "Now I realize I should have taken that advice and not gotten the cats."
Please think about that when you re-read all our comments. Thanks Chuck
Post Extras:
|
|
Stoneheartfarm
|
|
Veteran Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 10/10/02
|
|
Posts: 792
|
|
Loc: West Central Michigan
|
|
Re: Please tell me about dogs
[re: Mosey]
02/03/03 04:59 PM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
Danny,
There are electronic collars available that operate off a remote control. They are specifically for training dogs not to bark. The dog barks, you press the button. I don't know if they work, since I haven't tried one, but it seems similar to the electronic fencing that so many people have had good luck with. They are about $20 or 30.00 at Walmart, Kmart, TSC, etc.
I also saw several shelties that had barks not much louder than a whisper. They were so quiet they were funny. I asked the owner about it and he said their vocal cords had been clipped and that this is apparently something quite common with this type of dog. Sort of like de-clawing a cat. (If I had my choice, I think I'd try the collar.  ) Barking is not the only thing dogs do. They also shed, chew on things (mine shreds paper towels--only paper towels, not anything else), scratch, whine to be let out, fed, etc. It's sort of like having another kid. Only this one can't talk, is covered in hair and smells funny when wet.
Living with a pet, any kind of pet, is a give and take situation. Very much like marriage. You found that out with the cats. Each one has its own personality and each is very different. Even being a non-pet person, you should be able to put up with an animal, you just have to pick the right one, and get one with an amiable personality.
Steve
PS There's another thread on here where you could get some pigeons if you're interested. 
Post Extras:
|
|
Handyman
|
|
Gold Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 11/01/02
|
|
Posts: 259
|
|
Loc: Tenn. USA
|
|
Re: Please tell me about dogs
[re: Worksmart]
02/03/03 05:07 PM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
Danny, I mean this with the best intention, but I don't believe yours a animal person. Some people shouldn't own animals... My neighbor is one of them. A beautiful make Golden Retriever tied on a runner, not socialized and I often hear it bark out of bordem (barks even in its own dog house). Fortunately as its getting older his barking is decreasing some.
I can respect the fact you would like an animal that doesn't disturb everyone, but I think your little too much a control freak.
1st you try to control where a cat goes to the bathroom when its outdoors... an impossible task, now a dog for your convienience because you don't want to have to clean up after it ...??? A dog won't crap a load on top of another one, so if you want it to keep going in an area you want, then you better plan on keeping it clean.
I will say that a dog will usually go potty away from where they sleep, but they dig where they sleep, mainly in the summer time to lay in the cool dirt.
Now if you have a male, he will mark his territory, if you have a female, she will attract males that will mark their territory especially when she is in season.
Might I suggest a nice goldfish, they're quiet, don't mess in your bushes and you can train them to eat out of your hand. 
Post Extras:
|
|
Stoneheartfarm
|
|
Veteran Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 10/10/02
|
|
Posts: 792
|
|
Loc: West Central Michigan
|
|
Re: Please tell me about dogs
[re: Handyman]
02/03/03 05:43 PM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
I did figure out why dogs are always smelling the ground when they walk. There's poo down there and they dont want to step in it.
Steve
Post Extras:
|
|
kokopelli
|
|
Silver Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/23/02
|
|
Posts: 103
|
|
Loc: maryland, usa
|
|
Re: Please tell me about dogs
[re: Mosey]
02/03/03 06:32 PM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
mybe you shouldnt get a dog...look at turtles or fish for your kids.
dogs take alot of work....yes you get get them to relieve themselves in one spot, but that takes alot of work and 2 six year olds are not going to be able to do it. there is 10 fold the work with raising a puppy...as i have be told having a dog is like having a permenat 2 year old!
dogs bark...that why people get them...the let you know when strangers are around.
there is a barkless dog called the besenji but you could not leave this breed outdoors anywhere north of texas. all three of my dogs are very quiet except when someone comes to the door...i like this if you dont...stay with the cats.
Post Extras:
|
|
|
Re: Please tell me about dogs
[re: Mosey]
02/03/03 07:00 PM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
A little miniature poodle is a nice dog...but they are an inside dog....nice pets.....smart as well.
Post Extras:
|
|
Alan_L_Texas
|
|
Silver Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 10/01/02
|
|
Posts: 112
|
|
Loc: Texas
|
|
Re: Please tell me about dogs
[re: Mosey]
02/03/03 10:43 PM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
You aren't going to be able to make your dog poop where you want, other than outside versus inside. If you really care about that sort of thing, then you won't be happy with any dog or cat.
If you somehow got attached to either, a little poop in the flowerbed won't bother you.
I can't imagine our pets being any less comfortable than we are, as they depend on us for that.
Nothing wrong with being particular about a place you've worked hard on, but pet ownership is all about compromise, and you might not be ready for that.
Alan L. - Texas
North of Mustang
South of Bugtussle
On the Banks of Buck Creek
Post Extras:
|
|
Mosey
|
|
Gold Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/12/02
|
|
Posts: 436
|
|
Loc: Southern Indiana
|
|
Re: Please tell me about dogs
[re: Handyman]
02/04/03 07:22 AM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
"too much a control freak. 1st you try to control where a cat goes to the bathroom when its outdoors... an impossible task"
I have talked to several people who have outside cats and they are amazed when I tell them about my problems. Their cats go off into a field or woods and do their business there.
I really don't think I was being unreasonable. Like I said, we had dogs on the farm where I grew up. I don't recall finding poop all over the yard. Let's just forget I ever asked any questions about dogs - I'm tired of the bashing (pigeons, fish, etc).
Post Extras:
|
|
cowboydoc
|
|
Veteran Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/11/02
|
|
Posts: 642
|
|
|
|
Re: Please tell me about dogs
[re: Mosey]
02/04/03 09:07 AM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
Danny,
If you thought that the cats were bad you're in for it triple with a dog. You will have to contend with the barking, the mess, etc. etc. There really is no easy way around it. You're also going to have to contend with the dog digging holes and chewing things. I don't see poop very often in our yard but our dogs have 300 acres that they roam over. I don't do much with ours with regard to special treatment. They live their life and when it's time to go work cattle or feed, etc. they are right there. Whenever we go outside and call they come a running. I spent alot of time with them when they were young training them. Now that they are older they don't require much.
Post Extras:
|
|
cowboydoc
|
|
Veteran Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/11/02
|
|
Posts: 642
|
|
|
|
Re: Please tell me about dogs
[re: Mosey]
02/04/03 09:21 AM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
I would disagree Danny. I would say a dog is better off outside. To me it's the same as keeping a horse in a stall. They are better off out on pasture. You think you're being good to them but a dog, in my humble opinion, is an outside animal and needs that same room to run around and be happy. We've had many dogs that have lived long lives and always were happy. I'm not saying it's bad to keep a dog inside but it's not something I feel they are better off with.
Post Extras:
|
|
rocky2
|
|
New Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/12/02
|
|
Posts: 22
|
|
Loc: Southwest Pennsylvania just north of Pittsburgh
|
|
Re: Please tell me about dogs
[re: Mosey]
02/04/03 02:26 PM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
Before you buy a dog, do the animal a favor and get the kids a fish. A dog requires lots of attention. If you keep the dog inside you'll have to "get home" to feed them, and let them out. Going away for a few days or more someone will have to come around to take care of them, or you board them. If you keep the dog outside all the time, why even have the animal then? There's nothing worse than a dog chained up to his doghouse and running around in an eight foot circle begging for some interaction. I agree that dogs are social, and that's a big part of their attitudes and personalities. I've had variuos dogs all my life, currently two Norwegian Elkhounds and two cats. While they all go outside and roam the property, they all still come inside for that interaction. You'd be better off getting the kids one of those robotic dogs or cats that will do just what you want when you want, won't poop or pee, won't bark and when you're bored with it you can put it on a shelf.
Post Extras:
|
|
jerrym4
|
|
New Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 10/08/02
|
|
Posts: 18
|
|
|
|
Re: Please tell me about dogs
[re: Mosey]
02/04/03 02:53 PM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
how about this
http://www.bonsaikitten.com
sorry...I just couldn't resist 
Post Extras:
|
|
Mosey
|
|
Gold Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/12/02
|
|
Posts: 436
|
|
Loc: Southern Indiana
|
|
Re: Please tell me about dogs
[re: rocky2]
02/04/03 03:08 PM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
Lighten up on me will ya? No one ever told me that dogs are absolutely miserable if they are outside by themselves for any length of time. I've seen lots of dogs outside, so lots of people don't feel they need to be inside. Even before I started this thread, I never intended to tie one up or put one in a small pen. I've seen people do that and the dogs are obviously not happy and are barking all the time. At least I asked some questions before doing anything. What I originally had in mind was one of those "invisible" electronic fences or something similar so the dog could have an acre or two to run around on.
I'm getting the impression that many of you don't think anyone should have a dog unless they plan to let it live in the house and be with the dog 24/7/365! Even house dogs are left alone a lot - I've seen it many times. I agree that a dog should not be put in a pen or tied up and forgotten. But, surely there's a happy medium.
Post Extras:
|
Previous
Index
Next
Flat
Threaded