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Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | (show all) Mosey Gold Member Reged: 09/12/02 Posts: 436 Loc: Southern Indiana Please tell me about dogs       02/03/03 10:03 AM Edit   Reply   After trying cats (and failing to make it work out, see Well, I started feeling guilty), my wife and I are considering getting a dog for kids (6 1/2 year old twins, boy and girl). We would get one in the summer for the kids birthday (in July). But, before I do this, I want to know what to expect. We had dogs (mostly beagles) when I was growing up, but I haven't had a dog around in over 20 years. It will be an outside dog. We want something good with kids, and we both like golden retrievers so we're leaning heavily toward one of them. I'm assuming a dog can be trained to poop in a certain area and not all over the yard, garage floor, flower beds, gravel, etc. If this is not true, please tell me about it now! My other concern is barking. When I've lived in the city in the past there were always dogs barking. The neighbors dog barked at me when I went out into my own back yard. They barked at night and kept me awake. Either the owners weren't there, were deaf, or they just didn't care. Now that I'm in the country, it's not so bad because the neighbors are farther away. But, I still hear dogs barking a lot and wonder why the owners don't do something about it. I think it's mostly when the owners are not home or when they're asleep and they must be heavy sleepers and/or hard of hearing so it doesn't bother them. Is it possible to train a dog not to bark all the time? I understand they are going to bark sometimes and they can warn of intruders, but it doesn't do any good if they are always "crying wolf". Can a dog be trained to only bark at certain things (car pulled in the driveway) and not others (squirrel in the woods)? I don't want to be an annoying neighbor because my dog barks too much! The beagles we had when I was growing up usually ended up dead in the road. They would get on a rabbit track and didn't pay attention. Can dogs be trained to stay out of the road? Post Extras:       WVBill Silver Member Reged: 09/12/02 Posts: 138 Loc: Eastern Panhandle of West Virginia Re: Please tell me about dogs [re: Mosey]       02/03/03 10:59 AM Edit   Reply   First, from what I've read, "experts" recommend never giving an animal as a birthday/christmas/etc. gift. It adds a level of stress to forming the relationship that is unhelpful. You said: I'm assuming a dog can be trained to poop in a certain area and not all over the yard, Based on my experience and observation, your assumption is wrong. Dogs can be housebroken but once you let them outside they pretty much just follow natural instincts. The dogs I've had, even if we tok them out on a lead and tried to make it to a certain location, if they needed to go before that, they went. I think they can get the concept of where NOT to go, but not the concept of where TO go. On the subject of barking, some dog breeds are notorious "barkers" and some are not. Even within breeds, some appear to bark more than others. Dogs are very social, "pack" animals. You will become their "pack" and many of their habits, good and bad will depend on how much you interact, socialize and get to know them. Please don't take offense, but from reading your saga of the cats and your criteria for a dog, I think you may just not be an "animal person". WVBill Post Extras:       Boondox Gold Member Reged: 09/11/02 Posts: 326 Loc: Northern Vermont Re: Please tell me about dogs [re: Mosey]       02/03/03 11:15 AM Edit   Reply   Mosey -- Please don't get a dog, especially a golden, if you intend to keep it outside. To WVBill's comments about dogs being social animals I would add a heartfelt "Amen!" Goldens are so incredibly social that the only form of punishment we use is throwing them outside away from the "pack." It is incredibly hurtful, and a five minute time out is incredibly effective. Of the 200+ goldens we've helped find new homes, the worst behavioral problems -- and all of the dogs we had to put down -- were the result of being "outside" dogs. And those barking dogs you referred to, my bet is 99% of them are in the yard away from their pack. A bored dog is a barking dog. No offense intended, but have you considered a nice cockatiel..? Pete Ragtag Golden Retriever Rescue Lamoille County, Vermont Post Extras:       Mosey Gold Member Reged: 09/12/02 Posts: 436 Loc: Southern Indiana Re: Please tell me about dogs [re: WVBill]       02/03/03 11:20 AM Edit   Reply   WVBill - Thanks for the advice. It may be true that I'm not an "animal person", and if so I need to find that out before I get any more pets. But, the pet is not for me, mainly for the kids. So, I need to find out if I can just at least tolerate him/her and not keep having the constant battles like with the cats. I do think it's fair to say that there a lot of people out there that own pets that are also not "animal people", such as the ones that let there dogs bark continuously, let them roam around uncontrolled, leave them to be alone in a pen all the time or in an apartment while they are gone from 6am to 11pm, etc. If I'm going to be a pet owner, I want to be a humane one! Post Extras:       PhilNH5 Member Reged: 09/12/02 Posts: 36 Re: Please tell me about dogs [re: Mosey]       02/03/03 11:23 AM Edit   Reply   Danny, I have always had dogs. Always inside ones - members of the household actually. I have two now, one of which is a Golden. I believe this breed would make a terrible "outside" dog. They are definitely people dogs. Mika's greatest joy in life is to be hanging around with us. He is never not near a family member. I had another Golden 5 years back and she was the same way. If Boondox sees this he may offer good insights about Goldens. Regarding barking dogs. I think they do it cause they are bored or lonely. My dogs both present and past bark at a percieved threat or unsual sound. Great for security. I get up and investigate when one of my dogs barks. My neighbors outside dogs bark and I completely tune them out. Their house could be robbed and I would never know cause I ignore the barking. And since the dogs are chained outside they pose no threat other than noise to any would be intruder. Dogs are definetly "high maintenance" when compared to cats. They need training, exercise, food etc Phil Post Extras:       PhilNH5 Member Reged: 09/12/02 Posts: 36 Re: Please tell me about dogs [re: PhilNH5]       02/03/03 11:24 AM Edit   Reply   Well I see Boondox did reply while I was typing. Phil Post Extras:       Mosey Gold Member Reged: 09/12/02 Posts: 436 Loc: Southern Indiana Re: Please tell me about dogs [re: Boondox]       02/03/03 11:25 AM Edit   Reply   "No offense intended, but have you considered a nice cockatiel..?" I'm not surprised to get bashed, I expected to have a bad reputation regarding pets due to the "cats saga". Give me some slack though, I tried very hard to make the cats situation work out. As for keeping the dogs in or out, my brother had a very happy golden retriever that was an outside dog and lived to a ripe old age. Post Extras:       RichZ Veteran Member Reged: 09/12/02 Posts: 558 Loc: Cambridge, New York in beautiful Washington County, next to Vermont Re: Please tell me about dogs [re: Mosey]       02/03/03 11:43 AM Edit   Reply   Danny, as Pete said, dogs are social animals. While you may occaisionally find a dog that doesn't mind being alone outside, that is certainly not the norm. Dogs consider your family the pack, and want to spend their time with the family. An outside dog will almost certainly be barking often and loud to get the attention of the family. It will be hard on the dog, and even cruel to the dog. As I had tried to explain to you, cats can do well outside, because they are not social animals, dogs must have a family to constantly interact with. As Pete suggested, I think you might want to look towards other animals as pets for the kids, though I would discourage you from any member of the parrot family (like cockatiels) as they are also very social, noisy and time consuming. How about a rabbit. They're cute, furry, can live outside in a hutch, and won't get into any trouble. Sorry, Danny, no offense intended, but you expect animals to act within certain parameters that are just not realistic. You can't expect certain behaviors from certain animals. You have to understand their nature. Rich "What a long strange trip it's been." Post Extras:       Mosey Gold Member Reged: 09/12/02 Posts: 436 Loc: Southern Indiana Re: Please tell me about dogs [re: RichZ]       02/03/03 11:51 AM Edit   Reply   This is amazing. When I first researched cats (not very well I'll admit), I was told by most that they should always be kept inside. Now people are saying the same thing about dogs!? Post Extras:       hazmat Gold Member Reged: 09/11/02 Posts: 417 Loc: West Newbury, MA Re: Please tell me about dogs [re: Mosey]       02/03/03 11:54 AM Edit   Reply   Danny, Please don't take this as additional bashing, but I've got to agree with Pete. What makes a dog easy to train is it's desire to please the alpha dog (you & your family). If you leave him outside all the time you will have little success getting him to go where you want, not bark & all other obedience. When we are not home, I will put the older dog out in our fenced yard (depending on the weather). He does NOT bark untill we get home. If we don't let him in, he makes serious noise until reunited with his pack. The pup is in his crate all day. Both sleep in our bedroom at night (Pup in crate) big guy on the floor untill 3am when he sneaks into bed (I'm letting him get away with that since we still don't have heat on the second floor). Something else to consider, dogs are bigger than cats & can cause more damage than a cat. They sometimes dig holes in your yard or garden, chew the deck railing, or even chomp on the clapboards of your house (all things I've experienced) Almost always when the dog wasn't being entertained--reasons why pup is in crate all day. If you are willing to let him into your home & family, I think a dog is a wonderful pet. If you are going to keep him outside, I don't think either you or the dog will be happy. For all the negative things I've written, there are many more positives. People with dogs get more exercise, the unconditionaly love is comforting when you've had a rough day, the list goes on. With a little effort it is possible to get train them to be well mannered in the house. For example our boys lie down while we eat dinner, and ring a bell to be let outside. Still working on them greeting visitors well (they get excited because it is a rare event). As was our trainer's motto: Set them up for success. If you don't want them on the kitchen counter, don't leave food there. The wife will be happy because you are keeping the kitchen clean Stop by your local library & pick up a couple books on dog training. They should help give you an idea what you might be in for. Hazmat Post Extras:       Mosey Gold Member Reged: 09/12/02 Posts: 436 Loc: Southern Indiana Re: Please tell me about dogs [re: hazmat]       02/03/03 12:23 PM Edit   Reply   Well, after chewing on this (and my lunch), let me make a stab at understanding dogs better. A) The reason some dogs bark all the time is because they are alone. Either they are alone in their pen or tied up outside, or they are alone in the house or apartment. Too many people do not provide enough attention to their dogs. This certainly fits in with what I've observed. I see dogs penned up and tied up outside all the time and they bark all the time. I've seen dogs left in houses and apartments while their owners were gone all day and they barked all day. I have always felt sorry for all these lonely dogs. B) If a dog is kept in the house, then at least he/she gets some companionship when the owners are home. If a dog is kept outside, then he/she gets much less attention, especially when it's not nice out. I have known and know several people with inside dogs. They are much more involved with everything that goes on. These dogs even get presents and cards for their birthday and Christmas. I've seen dogs get treated better than some kids I know. I'm not sure what to conclude from this yet. I was told "don't get a cat unless you're going to keep it in the house" and didn't take that advice. Now I realize I should have taken that advice and not gotten the cats. Post Extras:       Boondox Gold Member Reged: 09/11/02 Posts: 326 Loc: Northern Vermont Re: Please tell me about dogs [re: PhilNH5]       02/03/03 02:47 PM Edit   Reply   Well said, Phil! A good analogy to the bored and lonely dog becoming a nuisance (or destructive) would be the bright boy left at home for extended periods of time while both parents work. Sure, some parents luck out with an angel for a kid, but far too many become social menaces by the time they reach their teen years. I was reminded of this yesterday at another of our sledding parties. My four dogs behaved themselves and made me proud. One visitor brought her outside dog, and no matter how much she yelled and threatened, the dog would not return to her. And why should it? So it can be driven home and confined in the back yard again? Heck, I'd run the other way! Pete Post Extras:       Worksmart Member Reged: 09/12/02 Posts: 27 Loc: S.E. Michigan Re: Please tell me about dogs [re: Mosey]       02/03/03 02:54 PM Edit   Reply   Danny - I think everyone did a great job of sharing their thoughts on this subject. I'm a dog person and proud of it. My Newfie slings slime on the walls and ceilings. His hair is everywhere. He will have an "accident" in the house occasionally. He is probably the best "pal" I could hope for. I've rescued and rehabilitated a number of dogs. Some physically and others emotionally abused. Emotional abuse can occur in dogs left to entertain themselves. Please don't go to a pet store and buy one. The conditions these dogs often come from are deplorable. I'm a firm believer in researching a dog for the situation it will be placed in. I'm not sure that's for you. I believe the commitment to a dog is going to be even more than a cat. You WILL end up taking care of the dog. The kids will only be so responsible......they are children after all. I don't really think you are a "dog person" from what I've read. That's just fine. Rabbits, goldfish, hamsters..etc. are all a lot less expensive($$ and emotional) experiment to see if the kids are going to be "pet/dog people" when they get older. From your last post...... "Now I realize I should have taken that advice and not gotten the cats." Please think about that when you re-read all our comments. Thanks Chuck Post Extras:       Stoneheartfarm Veteran Member Reged: 10/10/02 Posts: 792 Loc: West Central Michigan Re: Please tell me about dogs [re: Mosey]       02/03/03 04:59 PM Edit   Reply   Danny, There are electronic collars available that operate off a remote control. They are specifically for training dogs not to bark. The dog barks, you press the button. I don't know if they work, since I haven't tried one, but it seems similar to the electronic fencing that so many people have had good luck with. They are about $20 or 30.00 at Walmart, Kmart, TSC, etc. I also saw several shelties that had barks not much louder than a whisper. They were so quiet they were funny. I asked the owner about it and he said their vocal cords had been clipped and that this is apparently something quite common with this type of dog. Sort of like de-clawing a cat. (If I had my choice, I think I'd try the collar. ) Barking is not the only thing dogs do. They also shed, chew on things (mine shreds paper towels--only paper towels, not anything else), scratch, whine to be let out, fed, etc. It's sort of like having another kid. Only this one can't talk, is covered in hair and smells funny when wet. Living with a pet, any kind of pet, is a give and take situation. Very much like marriage. You found that out with the cats. Each one has its own personality and each is very different. Even being a non-pet person, you should be able to put up with an animal, you just have to pick the right one, and get one with an amiable personality. Steve PS There's another thread on here where you could get some pigeons if you're interested. Post Extras:       Handyman Gold Member Reged: 11/01/02 Posts: 259 Loc: Tenn. USA Re: Please tell me about dogs [re: Worksmart]       02/03/03 05:07 PM Edit   Reply   Danny, I mean this with the best intention, but I don't believe yours a animal person. Some people shouldn't own animals... My neighbor is one of them. A beautiful make Golden Retriever tied on a runner, not socialized and I often hear it bark out of bordem (barks even in its own dog house). Fortunately as its getting older his barking is decreasing some. I can respect the fact you would like an animal that doesn't disturb everyone, but I think your little too much a control freak. 1st you try to control where a cat goes to the bathroom when its outdoors... an impossible task, now a dog for your convienience because you don't want to have to clean up after it ...??? A dog won't crap a load on top of another one, so if you want it to keep going in an area you want, then you better plan on keeping it clean. I will say that a dog will usually go potty away from where they sleep, but they dig where they sleep, mainly in the summer time to lay in the cool dirt. Now if you have a male, he will mark his territory, if you have a female, she will attract males that will mark their territory especially when she is in season. Might I suggest a nice goldfish, they're quiet, don't mess in your bushes and you can train them to eat out of your hand. Post Extras:       Stoneheartfarm Veteran Member Reged: 10/10/02 Posts: 792 Loc: West Central Michigan Re: Please tell me about dogs [re: Handyman]       02/03/03 05:43 PM Edit   Reply   I did figure out why dogs are always smelling the ground when they walk. There's poo down there and they dont want to step in it. Steve Post Extras:       kokopelli Silver Member Reged: 09/23/02 Posts: 103 Loc: maryland, usa Re: Please tell me about dogs [re: Mosey]       02/03/03 06:32 PM Edit   Reply   mybe you shouldnt get a dog...look at turtles or fish for your kids. dogs take alot of work....yes you get get them to relieve themselves in one spot, but that takes alot of work and 2 six year olds are not going to be able to do it. there is 10 fold the work with raising a puppy...as i have be told having a dog is like having a permenat 2 year old! dogs bark...that why people get them...the let you know when strangers are around. there is a barkless dog called the besenji but you could not leave this breed outdoors anywhere north of texas. all three of my dogs are very quiet except when someone comes to the door...i like this if you dont...stay with the cats. Post Extras:       Steel_Wheels Member Reged: 01/15/03 Posts: 64 Re: Please tell me about dogs [re: Mosey]       02/03/03 07:00 PM Edit   Reply   A little miniature poodle is a nice dog...but they are an inside dog....nice pets.....smart as well. Post Extras:       Alan_L_Texas Silver Member Reged: 10/01/02 Posts: 112 Loc: Texas Re: Please tell me about dogs [re: Mosey]       02/03/03 10:43 PM Edit   Reply   You aren't going to be able to make your dog poop where you want, other than outside versus inside. If you really care about that sort of thing, then you won't be happy with any dog or cat. If you somehow got attached to either, a little poop in the flowerbed won't bother you. I can't imagine our pets being any less comfortable than we are, as they depend on us for that. Nothing wrong with being particular about a place you've worked hard on, but pet ownership is all about compromise, and you might not be ready for that. Alan L. - Texas North of Mustang South of Bugtussle On the Banks of Buck Creek Post Extras:       Mosey Gold Member Reged: 09/12/02 Posts: 436 Loc: Southern Indiana Re: Please tell me about dogs [re: Handyman]       02/04/03 07:22 AM Edit   Reply   "too much a control freak. 1st you try to control where a cat goes to the bathroom when its outdoors... an impossible task" I have talked to several people who have outside cats and they are amazed when I tell them about my problems. Their cats go off into a field or woods and do their business there. I really don't think I was being unreasonable. Like I said, we had dogs on the farm where I grew up. I don't recall finding poop all over the yard. Let's just forget I ever asked any questions about dogs - I'm tired of the bashing (pigeons, fish, etc). Post Extras:       cowboydoc Veteran Member Reged: 09/11/02 Posts: 642 Re: Please tell me about dogs [re: Mosey]       02/04/03 09:07 AM Edit   Reply   Danny, If you thought that the cats were bad you're in for it triple with a dog. You will have to contend with the barking, the mess, etc. etc. There really is no easy way around it. You're also going to have to contend with the dog digging holes and chewing things. I don't see poop very often in our yard but our dogs have 300 acres that they roam over. I don't do much with ours with regard to special treatment. They live their life and when it's time to go work cattle or feed, etc. they are right there. Whenever we go outside and call they come a running. I spent alot of time with them when they were young training them. Now that they are older they don't require much. Post Extras:       cowboydoc Veteran Member Reged: 09/11/02 Posts: 642 Re: Please tell me about dogs [re: Mosey]       02/04/03 09:21 AM Edit   Reply   I would disagree Danny. I would say a dog is better off outside. To me it's the same as keeping a horse in a stall. They are better off out on pasture. You think you're being good to them but a dog, in my humble opinion, is an outside animal and needs that same room to run around and be happy. We've had many dogs that have lived long lives and always were happy. I'm not saying it's bad to keep a dog inside but it's not something I feel they are better off with. Post Extras:       rocky2 New Member Reged: 09/12/02 Posts: 22 Loc: Southwest Pennsylvania just north of Pittsburgh Re: Please tell me about dogs [re: Mosey]       02/04/03 02:26 PM Edit   Reply   Before you buy a dog, do the animal a favor and get the kids a fish. A dog requires lots of attention. If you keep the dog inside you'll have to "get home" to feed them, and let them out. Going away for a few days or more someone will have to come around to take care of them, or you board them. If you keep the dog outside all the time, why even have the animal then? There's nothing worse than a dog chained up to his doghouse and running around in an eight foot circle begging for some interaction. I agree that dogs are social, and that's a big part of their attitudes and personalities. I've had variuos dogs all my life, currently two Norwegian Elkhounds and two cats. While they all go outside and roam the property, they all still come inside for that interaction. You'd be better off getting the kids one of those robotic dogs or cats that will do just what you want when you want, won't poop or pee, won't bark and when you're bored with it you can put it on a shelf. Post Extras:       jerrym4 New Member Reged: 10/08/02 Posts: 18 Re: Please tell me about dogs [re: Mosey]       02/04/03 02:53 PM Edit   Reply   how about this http://www.bonsaikitten.com sorry...I just couldn't resist Post Extras:       Mosey Gold Member Reged: 09/12/02 Posts: 436 Loc: Southern Indiana Re: Please tell me about dogs [re: rocky2]       02/04/03 03:08 PM Edit   Reply   Lighten up on me will ya? No one ever told me that dogs are absolutely miserable if they are outside by themselves for any length of time. I've seen lots of dogs outside, so lots of people don't feel they need to be inside. Even before I started this thread, I never intended to tie one up or put one in a small pen. I've seen people do that and the dogs are obviously not happy and are barking all the time. At least I asked some questions before doing anything. What I originally had in mind was one of those "invisible" electronic fences or something similar so the dog could have an acre or two to run around on. I'm getting the impression that many of you don't think anyone should have a dog unless they plan to let it live in the house and be with the dog 24/7/365! Even house dogs are left alone a lot - I've seen it many times. I agree that a dog should not be put in a pen or tied up and forgotten. But, surely there's a happy medium. Post Extras:       kokopelli Silver Member Reged: 09/23/02 Posts: 103 Loc: maryland, usa Re: Please tell me about dogs [re: Mosey]       02/04/03 03:19 PM Edit   Reply   mosey i have no particular issue with people having outside dogs...we had one when i was growing upand it was a great animal that lived a happy life. i just want you to know that they take alot more work then a cat. they are totally dependent on you and that is not something you are looking for right now and that is okay... as for the rabbits they dont need to be brought in the garage in the winter...just get a bale of hay and they will make anice nest out of it to keep warm...this is if you have designed a nice hutch for them in the first place...that keeps them dry and out of the wind. Post Extras:       pbenven Silver Member Reged: 09/12/02 Posts: 198 Loc: QC, Canada Re: Please tell me about dogs [re: Mosey]       02/04/03 06:36 PM Edit   Reply   Danny, I've got to hand it to you for not ducking and running - you've put up with quite a thrashing. We have 3 dogs, no kids, and we're away from home from 7am until 6pm. The dogs have a section of our barn and an enclosed area outside. We started out with only one dog, but for reasons given in other posts, we thought we'd better get him a companion. The 3rd dog we found and while we didn't plan on keeping her, she now has a very comfortable home with us. The dogs come in at night when we get home. Poop detail is daily as weather permits (if it's -20, we might put it off). I don't remember reading in this thread or the other one you started the actual reason for getting your kids an animal. If you did, I'm sorry I didn't catch it - I was probably wincing at some of the remarks. If it is to introduce them to the responsibility of caring for another living thing, then I think a farm animal might be more suitable. There are some pretty interesting options, like bantam chickens, domestic ducks, and certainly rabbits. I'd be partial to the chicken idea as there are a variety of tasks that can be made to seem more rewarding to a young mind - like finding eggs. Although I don't have any myself, I would very much like to get my own small flock of Buff Orpington chickens as I understand that they are quite calm and do have some pet-like qualitties. Pete would be a better person to qualify that. Hope this helps, and hang in there. Paul Post Extras:       Handyman Gold Member Reged: 11/01/02 Posts: 259 Loc: Tenn. USA Re: Please tell me about dogs [re: pbenven]       02/04/03 09:42 PM Edit   Reply   Danny, People (myself included) are responding to what info you have given us. My lasy dog, a 140 lbs Rottie/bullmastiff mix, (bear) was a outside dog. I couldn't bring it inside for more than a couple of hours after giving him a bath because of the hair. However I provided him with a fenced in yard and a carport for him to guard, play and sleep. He loved the carport because the cement was cool and no fleas. I don't believe in a dog roaming the neighborhood and I definately don't believe tieing a dog on a chain to a tree, thats just mean. Even though he was an outside dog, I worked, played and times we just hung out together with him almost on a daily basis. He was my buddy. I think others here have had the same experience with their animal as I did in their own way. Sorry if we aren't giving you that answer you want to hear, maybe next time you might want to give some thought to the question and how you express yourself (as in the rest of the story) I think a rabbit would be nice. Do you know that they also usually like to use a certain corner to go potty... my father used to put a trash can in the corner at one end of the cage and a lot of the poop ended up in the can... no pun intended.. LOL BTW, rabbit stew is real good too Post Extras:       Mosey Gold Member Reged: 09/12/02 Posts: 436 Loc: Southern Indiana Re: Please tell me about dogs [re: Handyman]       02/05/03 07:26 AM Edit   Reply   Handyman - "Sorry if we aren't giving you that answer you want to hear, maybe next time you might want to give some thought to the question and how you express yourself (as in the rest of the story)" Thanks for the help. I'm still confused though, so can you help me out some more? I just re-read my initial post on this thread. I just don't see where I said or even implied that I was planning to put a dog outside in a pen or tied up and only visit the dog on once in a while. Like I said earlier, what I originally had in mind was one of those "invisible" electronic fences or something similar so the dog could have an acre or two to run around on. That would just be for when no one was out with the dog. When we're out with the dog, I'd turn the collar off and we could all go for long walks in the woods (like we do now with the cats). ... "I definately don't believe tieing a dog on a chain to a tree" I agree 100%!. Post Extras:       hazmat Gold Member Reged: 09/11/02 Posts: 417 Loc: West Newbury, MA Re: Please tell me about dogs [re: Mosey]       02/05/03 07:50 AM Edit   Reply   Thanks for the help. I'm still confused though, so can you help me out some more? I just re-read my initial post on this thread. I just don't see where I said or even implied that I was planning to put a dog outside in a pen or tied up and only visit the dog on once in a while. Mosey, you said "It will be an outside dog" you didn't specify tied up, fenced in or invisable fence. People made their own assumptions (myself included ). Keep in mind that communication in the form of a discussion board looses quite a bit compared to face to face conversation. If you & I were talking, I'd probably have asked you, "how are you going to restrain him" Kind of hard to read a couple paragraphs of text & take it all in 100% as intended vs. you say a couple sentances & I can but in any time I need clarification. Assuming that this form of communication is 50% as effective as face to face, you need to read between the lines of the responses you've gotten. Some were smart alec inteded for humor purposes only, most were well intentioned: the core message being "you & the dog will get the most enjoyment from each other the more time the dog spends with the family." Often when people are trying to make a persuasive arguement, they will take things to the extreme ie: Don't you dare get a dog if you're going to chain him to a tree and only visit him to feed him. While I can't speak for everybody, I don't think anybody thinks you would intentionally abuse an animal. The fact that you are doing research and asking questions alone shows you care. That said, you have taken all our "advise" well! So what is the front runner? Dog, Rabbit, Chicken, goat, goldfish, turtle, tree or pet rock ? Hazmat Post Extras:       Mosey Gold Member Reged: 09/12/02 Posts: 436 Loc: Southern Indiana Re: Please tell me about dogs [re: hazmat]       02/05/03 08:20 AM Edit   Reply   Hazmat - Thanks, I'll be sure and put in more detail from now on! As for the front runner, at this point I'm leaning heavily toward the rocks and trees. I already have a rock garden in the back yard, so maybe I'll even let the kids bring a couple of them in the house! I also already have 100 northern white cedar trees coming (ordered last fall) and will be planting them this spring. Post Extras:       WVBill Silver Member Reged: 09/12/02 Posts: 138 Loc: Eastern Panhandle of West Virginia Re: Please tell me about dogs [re: Mosey]       02/05/03 08:38 AM Edit   Reply   Danny: It wasn't just your initial post on this thread. It was the entire saga of the cats in nearly 100 posts on both CBN and TBN that leads me to believe you will just not be happy with any animal. I don't know, maybe it was something you wrote. Like: TBN: Re: Gravel driveway dust - 01/06/03 09:21 AM The %$*&^%@!!$#* worthless pests are digging in the gravel and crapping in it! I'm beginning to think my .22 is the best solution to this problem, but if I can avoid that I'm willing to try![ TBN: Re: Gravel driveway dust - 01/06/03 11:56 AM I hate the cats and wish I'd never gotten them, but I don't want to do anything that would upset the kids. TBN: Re: Gravel driveway dust - 01/06/03 01:01 PM The cats refuse to cooperate with anything I try to do. I think the reason the cats are using the gravel (#53 limestone) under the carport is because it's dry. The sand at the edge of the woods has been wet from the rain and snow. TBN: Re: Gravel driveway dust - 01/07/03 06:56 AM The stuff they sell at pets stores is over $15 for a spray can and it would take at least 5 cans to cover the area. TBN: Re: Gravel driveway dust - 01/07/03 12:21 PM I sure am looking forward to being rid of them for a day! TBN: Re: Gravel driveway dust - 01/13/03 08:48 AM ...now that they're older they seem to only want to go where they can dig and cover it up. CBN: Cats, I'm trying to make this work out, but ... -09/18/02 01:16 PM If I would have known cats are this stupid I would never have gotten them! CBN: Cats, I'm trying to make this work out, but ... -09/18/02 01:16 PM One suggestion I got was that they don't want to walk that far. ... total defiance is not going to cut it around here. I'm not going to keep spending money on cat food if they don't start co-operating! CBN: Re: Cats, I'm trying to make this work out, but ...- 09/18/02 01:53 PM We'd have to clean it out every day, which is not an option, we have better things to do than clean up after a cat all the time. CBN: Re: Cats, I'm trying to make this work out, but ... -09/24/02 02:59 PM Keeping them locked in their house at night has been the key to this success. That way I know where they are at night and know they aren't pooping in the flower bed. CBN: Re: Cats, I'm trying to make this work out, but ... - 10/01/02 09:38 AM Tiger pooped in his house. I know it was him this time, because I have the partition in there and it was on his side. He pushed his padding and blanket all to one corner and then went on the floor. He wasn't in there as long as he was the previous 2 nights, so I don't know why he picked this morning to do it. He'll be left in there to smell it for a few hours again like last time. CBN: Re: Cats, I'm trying to make this work out, but ... - 10/01/02 11:58 AM ...getting the kids cats for pets was a mistake. They don't make good pets for kids (or for adults as far as I'm concerned). They are not very playful, don't come when called, etc. All they want to do is lay around and sleep all day. They are independent, belligerent, not very smart, and seem to have very short memories. They also haven't caught a mouse yet. I've taken them back to where there is a wood pile and some stuff I have stored that are covered with tarps. I've seen mice there many times, but they never catch one. These are certainly the last cats I will ever have around! CBN: Re: Cats, I'm trying to make this work out, but ... - 10/02/02 09:52 AM Any animal with any intelligence would have learned its lesson. But, this morning Tiger pooped in his house again! CBN: Re: Cats, I'm trying to make this work out, but ... - 10/03/02 08:52 AM Maybe I'll get lucky and they'll both wander off and never come back. CBN: Re: Cats, I'm trying to make this work out, but ... - 11/27/02 09:23 AM If I would have known what they were like, I would never have gotten them. But, now the kids are attached to them and I'm stuck with them until they get killed or wander off. CBN: Re: Well, I started feeling guilty - 01/23/03 10:27 AM It's not the kids fault that the cats refuse to cooperate. CBN: Re: Well, I started feeling guilty - 01/23/03 11:09 AM Any animal with a little bit of intelligence would figure it out by now! Yes, cats are untrainable and it's because they are just plain stupid! CBN: Re: Well, I started feeling guilty - 01/23/03 12:56 PM They go to the closest place, in spite of getting yelled at, kicked, ice cubes thrown at them, and picked up and tossed whenever I catch them there! CBN: Re: Well, I started feeling guilty - 02/01/03 09:04 AM I found cat poop on the gravel covered with snow next to the carport and some more under a bush next to it. It's time to start preparing the kids for when they find out the "cats wandered off I guess, that happens sometimes". I hate to lie to the kids, but enough is enough ! Post Extras:       Mosey Gold Member Reged: 09/12/02 Posts: 436 Loc: Southern Indiana Re: Please tell me about dogs [re: WVBill]       02/05/03 09:02 AM Edit   Reply   WVBill - I certainly won't deny that the cats saga has been very frustrating! In the heat of the moment I did say a .22 would be the best solution. But, I didn't use that method did I? There are a lot of people that would have. No one else I know of has every had their cats poop in their gravel driveway. It's impossible to clean up without wasting some gravel each time. You're criticizing me because I'm not willing to spend over $50 a week on something to spray on the gravel to keep the cats from pooping in it? Out of desperation I tried various methods of "training" such as locking them in their house, which worked for over a week and then suddenly stopped working. I went to great lengths to provide them with clean dry sand (trailer parked over it) within 20 feet of their house at the edge of the woods, but they still refused to cooperate and preferred to trot 100 feet to the gravel by the carport and poop there. I'm still convinced that cats are untrainable and it's because they are vindictive, ornery, and stupid! I'm not convinced that I'm not an "animal person" in general, I'm only convinced that I'm not a "cat person". If the cats would have at least been good playmates for the kids, then I would have been much more willing to be the one that they trained to take care of them, but they do basically nothing but lay around all day, which I now know is because they're nocturnal and have been up all night. PS: You said earlier that dogs "can get the concept of where NOT to go, but not the concept of where TO go." To me, that's a major difference! That's something that I can work with. If the cats could have at least done that, then it would have worked out. I've seen the cats go out to the woods, but not in the sand, and I'm fine with that. I've also seen them go in the mulch under some trees that are over 100 feet from the house, and I'm fine with that too. Edited by Mosey (02/05/03 09:08 AM) Post Extras:       kokopelli Silver Member Reged: 09/23/02 Posts: 103 Loc: maryland, usa Re: Please tell me about dogs [re: Mosey]       02/05/03 09:06 AM Edit   Reply   cats tend not be good playmates....it takes a very special cat to deal with kids. as for cleaning up in the gravel with out wasting any its really simple....get plastic bags verses paper at the grocery store and then use them....stick your hand in like a glove and pick it up...drop any gravel you might get...pull your hand through while holding the poop and then tie the bag in a not and throw away... thats what i do every day with my dog....just one more thing you have to think about if you want a dog by the way Post Extras:       kokopelli Silver Member Reged: 09/23/02 Posts: 103 Loc: maryland, usa Re: Please tell me about dogs [re: Mosey]       02/05/03 09:08 AM Edit   Reply   oh and i kept my rabbits for years without them ever not wanting to be played with...just have to take them out of the hutch all of the time so they are used to it plus if they dislike it ....it wont be until the kids are "ready" for a dog. say in about 7 years or so. Post Extras:       Mosey Gold Member Reged: 09/12/02 Posts: 436 Loc: Southern Indiana Re: Please tell me about dogs [re: kokopelli]       02/05/03 09:15 AM Edit   Reply   kokopelli - Thanks for the suggestion. But, if I drop any gravel that has even a little poop left on it, then the odor is still there and that will attract the cats back to the same spot. I don't plan to have the gravel around by the end of the year anyway, since I'm planning (hoping anyway) to have it concrete by then. It's the pooping right under the windows in the flower bed that is the major problem. VWBill claims a dog can be trained NOT to go in certain areas, so do you agree? If so, how is this training done? Please be honest and don't let your desire to keep me from even getting a dog bias your answer! Post Extras:       Mosey Gold Member Reged: 09/12/02 Posts: 436 Loc: Southern Indiana Re: Please tell me about dogs [re: kokopelli]       02/05/03 09:17 AM Edit   Reply   "oh and i kept my rabbits for years without them ever not wanting to be played with...just have to take them out of the hutch all of the time so they are used to it" OK, I'll keep that in mind, thanks! Post Extras:       kokopelli Sil