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Mosey
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Well, I started feeling guilty
01/23/03 08:47 AM
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The battle continues, see Cats, I'm trying to make this work out, but, and Gravel driveway dust. I started feeling guilty that the cats were out in the cold with temps getting to near 0 F at night. So, the night before last, I hung a drop cord light with a 100W bulb in their house to take the chill off. I figured it would only cost about 10 cents a night. They seemed to like it and slept in there the night before last and last night. Before that they never slept in there and preferred to sleep on the lawn chairs in the breezeway, so it must be putting out enough heat to make a difference. My reward was to find more poop in some mulch around some white spruce trees next to the carport this morning. It wasn't there when I got home from work yesterday. I thought I had them cured of using that spot by watering it down good last week before it got cold so it would freeze solid and then putting "Havahart Repellent" on top. But, apparently the sun has been out enough lately to dry it off so they were able to dig in it. The "Havahart Repellent" probably doesn't put out any odor in extreme cold temperatures. Also, where I want them to go, I had loosened up the sand with my tractor and rear blade, so it was nice and soft for about a foot deep. The frustration continues!
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hazmat
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Re: Well, I started feeling guilty
[re: Mosey]
01/23/03 08:54 AM
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I figured it would only cost about 10 cents a night. They seemed to like it and slept in there the night before last and last night. Before that they never slept in there and preferred to sleep on the lawn chairs in the breezeway, so it must be putting out enough heat to make a difference
Minor price to pay to avoid the unpleasant situation of your kids finding kitty frozen solid on the lawn chair.
Just had an idea, since the kids wanted the cats, how about having them scoop the poop as one of their chores?
Hazmat
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Mosey
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Re: Well, I started feeling guilty
[re: hazmat]
01/23/03 09:27 AM
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"having them scoop the poop as one of their chores"
Thanks for the suggestion hazmat, but I don't want my kids to be the ones who get "trained"! It's not the kids fault that the cats refuse to cooperate.
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kokopelli
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Re: Well, I started feeling guilty
[re: Mosey]
01/23/03 09:52 AM
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seems like an act of futility.... training the cats where not to go while outside?
i would think it would be easier, quicker and alot cleaner to have the kids clean it....isnt that why you have them around?
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Mosey
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Re: Well, I started feeling guilty
[re: kokopelli]
01/23/03 10:09 AM
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"have the kids clean it....isnt that why you have them around?"
I hope you don't mean that the reason I have the kids around is so I have someone to clean up after the cats!
I assume you meant that the reason I have the cats is for the kids, which is true. I got them for the kids to play with and I don't mind having the kids be involved with taking care of them, such as feeding. But, allowing the cats to just take a dump anywhere they please and then having the kids clean up after them is not an option!
I know a few people that have outdoor cats. None of them have the problems I have. Their cats go into the woods or somewhere else besides the flower bed, gravel, yard, etc. The woods is not that far, less than 100'. There's sand and leaves for them to go in. They have never been scolded for being in the woods. They are constantly scolded for being in the flowerbeds or gravel. Any animal with a little bit of intelligence would figure it out by now! Yes, cats are untrainable and it's because they are just plain stupid!
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Hayseed
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Re: Well, I started feeling guilty
[re: Mosey]
01/23/03 10:33 AM
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I guess I am just lucky, Danny. The lot next door is vacant but will soon have a doublewide parked on it. The lady who owns the lot is a widow three times over. Her forth husband is a low i.q. idiot sot that I refer to as Donald the Drunk. (Having a drunk for a neighbor is not the lucky part, by the way.) I feed my outside cats on the porch. After they fill their bellies they immediately proceed across the property line and do their business in what will be my neighbors' backyard! It warms the cockles of my heart everytime I see them fertilizing their lawn!  I couldn't have trained them better if I had wanted to. 
Chris
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Mosey
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Re: Well, I started feeling guilty
[re: Hayseed]
01/23/03 10:51 AM
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Chris - I sure would like to know what attracts them over there! I'm fairly patient, but I'm running out.
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LazyJ_Arabians
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Re: Well, I started feeling guilty
[re: Mosey]
01/23/03 11:17 AM
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Try moving their house and feedbowl farther from the house. In my limited cat-training experience, they eat, sleep, and poop withing a territory. You can sometimes move that territory by physically moving #1 & #2 then #3 will follow with them. Strange how cats, moreso than any other domestic animal I've experienced, exhibit different characteristics among individuals. Some are loveable, trainable and others are hermits and very feral by nature.
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Mosey
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LazyJ_Arabians - That's a good idea and might help. But, I don't know how to accomplish it. If I move the house out near the woods I won't be able to put the light in it to heat it (without running a cord 100', which I'm not going to do), so they'll just stay up by the house anyway and sleep on the lawn chairs. If I put the chairs away, they'll sleep up by the house next to a crawl space vent where a little heat seeps out (they do that a lot now). I used to feed them out by the sand pile when we first got them, but they still pooped everywhere including up by the house. The only time I was able to successfully get them to poop in the sand pile was when I went out there with them every morning and evening and then gave them treats after they pooped. They go to the closest place, in spite of getting yelled at, kicked, ice cubes thrown at them, and picked up and tossed whenever I catch them there!
It's a lost cause. The main reason I post updates is just in case some other unaware person is considering getting outdoor cats this will warn them not to!
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wingnut
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Re: Well, I started feeling guilty
[re: Mosey]
01/23/03 12:39 PM
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well, if you do figure out how to potty-train those cats, I'd be interested .... I have 5 barn cats that refuse to go outside and defecate. They sneak along the walls in the stalls and dig into the bedding ... which is ok ... or get into the tack room when I'm not looking or ... worst of all, in the hay. I'm at the point now of saying "if the hay is on the ground, it doesn't get used for feed".
Oh well, I haven't seen a mouse around for years .... and they refuse to wander away ... so I guess I'm stuck with them. At least they don't eat a lot ....
it's a shame that common sense isn't
http://www.dahlhausminiatures.com
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RichZ
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Re: Well, I started feeling guilty
[re: wingnut]
01/23/03 02:11 PM
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Pete, we recently got two barn cats, because our barn is infested with mice, and I've seen some rats, too. The kittens have just started killing some mice. If they wipe out our mouse problem, I don't care where they poop!!! 
By the way, we've had them for a few months now, and I have not found any poop. They're hiding it pretty well!! 
Rich
"What a long strange trip it's been."
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Mosey
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Re: Well, I started feeling guilty
[re: Mosey]
01/23/03 02:19 PM
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I guess I just got some "lemon" cats! Life could be bliss if I'd have gotten some other ones. Just my luck I guess.
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Inspector507
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Re: Well, I started feeling guilty
[re: Mosey]
01/23/03 05:48 PM
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Danny,
I've been trying to "train" the 2 that I have here. They are indoor cats, so I have a little more control than you do I suppose. But one day you'll realize as I have..........my cats "allow" me to live here, they need me for their food. Other than that.........they're so independent. I love 'em to death though......and one day they'll hopefully accept the dog I brought into "their" house.
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Maggie
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Re: Well, I started feeling guilty
[re: Mosey]
01/24/03 12:32 AM
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Mosey, you are probably not ever gonna get the cats to go just where you want them to go. Cats are independant by nature. And those commercial repellants are not worth buying, as they don't work. The only thing I've been able to find that will keep the cats from pooping in my flower beds is cheap black pepper. Get the cheapest, coarsest ground black pepper you can find and sprinkle liberally where you DON'T want them to go. A couple of times of sniffing this stuff and they will get in the habit of going someplace else even when the pepper is gone. Good luck!
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Mosey
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Re: Well, I started feeling guilty
[re: Maggie]
01/24/03 08:14 AM
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Maggie - "cheapest, coarsest ground black pepper you can find and sprinkle liberally where you DON'T want them to go"
I will certainly give it a try! Thanks!
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Re: Well, I started feeling guilty
[re: Mosey]
01/24/03 10:06 AM
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Set a cat litter tray by the trees...wherever they like to do their stuff at etc...and see if the will use the litter tray.....
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Mosey
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Re: Well, I started feeling guilty
[re: Steel_Wheels]
01/24/03 11:30 AM
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Steel_Wheels - Thanks, but we've already tried that. We had the litter box about 30 feet from the house, under a tree. The problem was the smell. It's very humid here in Indiana, so the kitty litter stayed damp, even though it didn't get rained on (and of course it got soaked when it rained), and it just didn't absorb the smell. We'd have to clean it out every day, which is not an option, we have better things to do than clean up after a cat all the time. That's why I wanted to get it farther from the house. My neighbor had an outdoor cat (that died of old age last year) and he said she never had a problem with going that from the house.
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Stoneheartfarm
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Re: Well, I started feeling guilty
[re: Mosey]
01/24/03 11:47 AM
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Danny,
This just goes to prove that while dogs have masters, cats have staff 
Steve
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cowboydoc
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Re: Well, I started feeling guilty
[re: Mosey]
01/24/03 02:47 PM
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Yes, cats are untrainable and it's because they are just plain stupid!
That is the truth!!! I have done everything short of shooting our cats for getting into the garage. Just about everytime we open the garage door up the two cats run inside. Never mind that they've paid the price a 100x they still keep doing it. The dog it took one time of trying that and he won't even go near the garage door now when it comes up. But those stupid cats will do it every time. 
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Mosey
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Re: Well, I started feeling guilty
[re: cowboydoc]
01/24/03 03:52 PM
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We're having the same problem with them getting into our garage. For a while it was no problem, we let them in because they just slept on an old rag or something. But, about a month ago they started jumping up on the bench or Jeep, then up to the rafters. They knocked stuff over, wouldn't come down when called, and hid up there. So, now we have to keep the garage door shut all the time, which is going to be a pain in the summer. That, combined with the rest of the trouble they cause, such as having to keep the flowerbeds around the house covered with mothballs, netting, chicken wire, or whatever - it's slowly but surely coming down the inevitable: the cats have to go!
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Al_Wa
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Re: Well, I started feeling guilty
[re: cowboydoc]
01/24/03 06:50 PM
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When the kid's were real young, they had this cat that bit me when I was feeding it. It landed in the middle of the garage door and then came back and bit me again. Fortunately it was Easter and when they noticed him missing I told them the Easter Bunny needed a helper. They no longer buy this, but it worked for several years. (Danny 86 days to Easter )
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Stoneheartfarm
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Re: Well, I started feeling guilty
[re: cowboydoc]
01/26/03 12:29 PM
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My cat used to claw on one leg of the coffee table. She was yelled at, swatted, sprayed with water, and everything else I could think of. Finally, she would claw at the table leg and stare straight at me. The instant I started to move, she would run away.
Therefore, I believe they can't be too stupid. They're smart enough to mess with us. 
Steve
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Ever see them in a circus...Ringling Brothers ???Amazing....what they get them to do...the trainers say they use a whole different approach to training a cat.....
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Stoneheartfarm
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Re: Well, I started feeling guilty
[re: Steel_Wheels]
01/26/03 04:52 PM
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I'm not 100% certain that you can ever train a cat. You can only get them to cooperate.
Steve
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Hank
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Re: Well, I started feeling guilty
[re: cowboydoc]
01/27/03 03:08 AM
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Yes, cats are untrainable and it's because they are just plain stupid!
Yes, cats are untrainable, but it is not because they are stupid. They are actually quite clever animals.
How are you defining "stupid"...that you cannot train them to heel, or canter, or walk through a gate?
I would suggest the stupid end of the stick is the homo sapiens who tries to "train" a cat. No offense to Mosey, who is still learning
Edited by Hank (01/27/03 03:10 AM)
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Mosey
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Re: Well, I started feeling guilty
[re: Hank]
01/27/03 10:52 AM
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Hank - I'm not trying to train them to do anything complicated like "heel, or canter, or walk through a gate". I'm just trying to get them to understand that if they poop in location "A", they get punished and if they poop in location "B", they get fed and no harm comes to them.
I decided to try what LazyJ_Arabians suggested. I moved their house to the edge of the woods. I mounted it up on a tree about 3' up and put a ramp for them to easily climb up in it. I faced it so the sun will shine in it during the day. I hauled a bunch of fresh dry sand from the kids sandbox (that needs to be replaced anyway) out to the sandpile and then parked my trailer over it to keep the sand dry. I moved their feed bowls to right under their house. I folded up and put all the lawn chairs in the garage, so there is no comfortable place for them to sleep near the house now. Starting on Saturday, I feed them out under their house now.
I also watered down the mulch real good Saturday, since it finally got up above freezing, and then it froze that night and has stayed cold so it's frozen solid now and they can't dig in it. The dry sand is the only place they can dig (besides the loose leaves in the woods).
So far, this is working. They eat and stay out by the woods for a while after they eat. They do come up by the house after a while. We got about an inch of snow and I don't see any cat tracks in the mulch, so they have been staying out of there. Tiny still remembers her training from a few months ago when I would go out to the sandpile every morning and evening and then give them treats if they pooped in the sand, because now when I go out there to feed them she still heads for the sand first and tries to go before eating. Tiger eats right away though. I think I blew it a few months ago when I thought I had them trained and started feeding them up by the house. I should have kept feeding them back by the woods. I won't make that mistake again.
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Hayseed
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Re: Well, I started feeling guilty
[re: Mosey]
01/27/03 11:44 AM
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Sounds like you have developed a good plan of action, Danny. If this approach fails put in a flowerbed near the woods in the area that you want them to do their business and maybe they will use it out of spite! Of course I am suggesting using reverse psychology on animals that do not understand human concepts (or do they???) but, hey, whatcha got to lose?! 
Chris
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Al_Wa
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Re: Well, I started feeling guilty
[re: Mosey]
01/27/03 01:28 PM
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Danny,
I am impressed. Tree House, sand box, first name basis (Tiny and Tiger), you are a stick with it guy.
Hope this works out for the better.
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Mosey
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Re: Well, I started feeling guilty
[re: Al_Wa]
01/27/03 01:52 PM
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Chris - I sure hope it works. I'm running out of patience! Sometimes I can't help but think they do some things just to spite me. This is probably their last chance though. I might try planting some catnip, I heard they're supposed to like the smell.
Al_Wa - Thanks for the encouragement. I was cooped up in the house for too long due to the cold weather anyway, so when it got above freezing, I was ready to get out and do some kind of project anyway. Plus, I'm trying my best to make this work out for the kids sake.
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Training/ conditioning .....whatever.....
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Mosey
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Re: Well, I started feeling guilty
[re: Steel_Wheels]
02/01/03 08:04 AM
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Well, I knew it wouldn't last. I found cat poop on the gravel covered with snow next to the carport and some more under a bush next to it. It's time to start preparing the kids for when they find out the "cats wandered off I guess, that happens sometimes". I hate to lie to the kids, but enough is enough!
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Re: Well, I started feeling guilty
[re: Mosey]
02/01/03 12:14 PM
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lots of luck.....
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