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Hank
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training aids
09/13/02 03:14 PM
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Well, let's kick off a discussion.
We have a resident police K-9 (my wife's partner) who is trained/certified in several areas, including narcotics detection, search and rescue, evidence recovery, and most importantly (most requested) cadaver detection.
To maintain this level of expertise, we have to keep "training aids" on hand. We have a dedicated freezer for cadaver training aids....yes that's right...human body parts in a freezer...gross!!!
Honestly, though, I am astounded at the level of expertise this team exhibits. They are modestly rated as one of the top five cadaver teams in the US, and I am quite proud.
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DUMBDOG
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Re: training aids
[re: Hank]
09/13/02 03:17 PM
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I am sure happy that you have a dedicated freezer for the training aids. 
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Hank
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Re: training aids
[re: DUMBDOG]
09/13/02 03:34 PM
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[blue]I am sure happy that you have a dedicated freezer for the training aids.[/blue]
As I am!! I sometimes have to complain about the stink when they get out the "aids".
For her evidence search training, I have also provided her with various older weapons, with the firing pins duly removed.
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Hayseed
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Re: training aids
[re: Hank]
09/13/02 04:20 PM
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Hey, Hank! Use the neat new Instant Markup tool located under posting window!  Click on the color and put your comment between the ]brackets[. 
Chris
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Hank
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Re: training aids
[re: Hayseed]
09/14/02 04:59 AM
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Hey, Hank! Use the neat new Instant Markup tool located under posting window!
I guess this is the most appropriate forum for teaching old dogs new tricks
Thanks!
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GaryM
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Re: training aids
[re: Hank]
09/14/02 11:28 PM
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I can imagine where you get the "aids". But what do you do if the freezer fails and you need to call for repairs?
It'd give the Maytag Man a heart attack!
Gary
----------------------------------------------
Hey! Aren't you supposed to be working?
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Hank
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Re: training aids
[re: GaryM]
09/15/02 04:44 AM
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I can imagine where you get the "aids". But what do you do if the freezer fails and you need to call for repairs?
Haven't had that happen yet, thankfully. The aids come from a variety of sources, including an Internet site that sells human bones, local homicide scenes (the dirt from underneath where a body decomposed has excellent cadaver scent, once the scene has been released, of course), and the Body Farm.
What actually stinks the most is not the human cadaver material, but the "distraction aids". The dogs have to be heavily trained not to indicate on remains of other species, so the training makes use of dead animals, like pigs, squirrels, etc. Those are the real stinkers. (I just salvaged a fresh dead squirrel from the road in front of the house yesterday....turned it over for training  )
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cowboydoc
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Re: training aids
[re: Hank]
09/16/02 07:34 AM
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I'm really surprised that you can get body parts for that. When I was in school it was and still is extremely regulated. You can't even make a snide remark about the cadavers or you risked expulsion. When we were done with cadavers they had to be completely put back. Later when I taught some classes for the university I found out that the hardest thing for schools to get and keep was their cadaver license. The regulations to keep them were immense.
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Hank
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I'm really surprised that you can get body parts for that.
Why? It is a legitimate, law enforcement/forensic need. You cannot train with substitutes, and also be able to be certified to testify in courts. A cadaver dog's "indication" is considered probable cause to obtain a search warrant, if necessary, to tear down walls or dig up floors or property.
One bud of mine, who is a retired LEO, teaches classes in crime scene recovery (since that was his area of certification and expertise). One class involves recovering a buried victim, and the procedure is almost like an archeological dig. In some states he teaches, the local department (being trained) can obtain whole bodies from the medical examiner; these are usually unclaimed "john doe's". Other states are more stringent.
The Body Farm is another good example of cadaver material being used legitimately to further forensic science. It is the Anthropology Dept. at the Univ. of Tenn at Chattanooga. They take cadavers and parts and spread them out in their restricted outdoor enviroment (the Farm), and take copious notes and observations about how the bodies deteriorate under various conditions (soil, temperature, insects and animals, sun, etc). Then, when a body is recovered somewhere else, and the local PD or FBI has no idea how long they've been there, they have a "body" of knowledge to compare with in making a determination.
Actual body parts are pretty tough to obtain, and it is done via law enforcement departments.
The primarily available training aid, and I mentioned this earlier, is dirt or other material that has been in contact with a decomposing body. Fresher is better, but cadaver teams in this area have been successfully deployed on a 13 year old homicide (Michelle Dorr).
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cowboydoc
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Re: training aids
[re: Hank]
09/18/02 07:51 PM
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No need to get defensive. I was just surprised that you could do it is all with all the regulations that there are. Makes me wonder why the medical school had such stringent standards when you have them in your freezer. I'm not putting you down or anything just doesn't make sense the way the rules are sometimes.
I think it's great what your wife does. Personally I have no problem with it was just surprised.
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Hank
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No need to get defensive.
Sorry I came off as sounding defensive, Richard. I was just trying to explain, but I get long-winded at times
Both my Dad and Father-in-law were physicians, so I have been exposed to the standards you refer to.
I think the difference in perspective has something to do with that physicians are being trained as healers, and a definite respect for the human body is being instilled there, sort of in line with the Hippocratic oath. Therefore, medical schools make a big deal about the "sanctity" of the cadaver.
This is not to say that law enforcement officers do not respect the cadaver as well, but that their primary concern is to treat the remains as evidence, with all of the court-imposed rules that go along with that, such as chain of custody, etc.
Coming from a medical training background as you do, I can appreciate how you would be surprised about other uses for cadavers.
I did not really do the Body Farm justice, and it's in Knoxville, not Chattanooga. Here is a really good article from CNN about it.
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Pat
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Re: training aids
[re: Hank]
10/01/02 10:53 AM
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WOW, Interesting post! Hope it doesn't offend the squeamish. Those dogs and their human handlers do a terrific job for us. I am amazed at the ability some of the dogs demonstrate. I've heard that catfish are even more sensitive but of course they pose a tougher "working conditions" challenge than dogs. Some of the stuff the dogs are smelling has such romanitic names (NOT!) To name just a couple of the chemical compounds associated with decaying flesh, there is cadaverine and putricene (may not be spelled perfectly I haven't been around any of that lab work for decades).
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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Hank
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Re: training aids
[re: Pat]
10/01/02 02:34 PM
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chemical compounds associated with decaying flesh, there is cadaverine and putricene
Right. I have heard of, seen, and smelled both of these. To the non-discriminating human nose, it's just like the real thing.  But, to a discriminating canine nose (I am told), it is a different scent entirely. Which is why they are not generally used for training aids. It is, in effect, teaching the dog to indicate on a different scent.
I recently met a woman at a party who trains water-retrieving dogs. She keeps dead baby ducks in her freezer for training aids. 
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