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What do I do?
03/25/08 11:02 AM
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Hi this is my first post. We moved from the city in GA to the country in AL in November of 2007. I now get to "live" with my horses. My delima. I have always had cats and dogs INSIDE. Always up to date on shots, wormings and spay and neuter. Now there is a stray barn cat. She had kittens 2 weeks ago in the barn. She finally let me touch her and I have been feeding her. Then she moved the kittens into some HEAVY brambles and thorns. Missed them a week. Found them and grabbed her and all 4 kittens. They are now inside in their own room. Kittens are 2 weeks old now. Mom and 4 kittens have been inside for 2 days. All are adjusting well. I called vet and will have mom spayed when kittens are 7 weeks old. DELIMA! I will socialize the kittens and have them fixed at 6 months. BUT HOW DO I PUT THEM BACK OUTSIDE? When the mom heals after her surgery, do I just open the door and let them out? We have 2 small inside dogs, 3 boxers inside and 2 inside cats. I have mom and kittens in a back room. they can't stay in there until kittens are 6 months old. I am freaking out over this, I am afraid hawks or owls will eat the babies. Everyone said I should have left the outside and left her alone. I just couldn't help it. Let me know what is the best I should do about trying to get everyone back outside after the mom has healed from her spaying. Thanks!
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Pat
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The following comment is NOT mean spirited.
Rural life is not a Disney production. Reality rules at times. Stuff happens. Life feeds on life. The less you make them into pets and the more wild you let them stay the better their chances of surviving. Predators just do what they have to do to "make a living", and aren't cruel or mean.
Unfortunately there is a constant stream of folks who think the natural laws should be repealed so their vision of a Disneyesque petting zoo will be established in place of the natural world where things eat each other. Sometimes there is just no safe way to have certain pets in the country and have a good chance of them living to old age when they are allowed outdoors.
Rather than to rail against nature's way, perhaps it might be better to keep pets inside or for outdoor pets chose ones with survivability due to their physical ability compared to the resident predators.
I have had various friends lose some really cute little animals that were just so lovable and precious it just about made me sick when they were carried off by coyotes. So what to do, hold neighborhood meetings to organize coyote extermination patrols and put out poison bait and traps and such? Do you try to rid the area of all birds of prey? (not legal) It might be better to get a grip on reality and not breed pets that are too easily confused for predator snacks.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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Re: What do I do?
[re: Pat]
03/25/08 12:21 PM
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YIKES! What you are saying is the truth! I just have to toughen up my skin. After mom is fixed, whoever of the 4 kittens who survives will be fixed too. They have a barn for shelter. Wish life was Disneyland!
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Pat
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I haven't wished life was like Disneyland since "The Pirates of the Caribbean" were made over to be politically correct and the pirates no longer took liberties with the wenches, hauling them off hoisted over their shoulders or such. Arrrr, me buckos!!!
You can only do so much and then whatever will be will be. Those cute little kittens will grow up into the natural born killers their genetics command. You will be happy if they take rodents because we don't value rodent lives so dearly but perhaps saddened when they take cute little songbirds, which they certainly will try to do.
Who are the good guys and who are the bad guys? I really like birds of prey and NEVER shoot them. They eat a lot of rodents, some snakes, and the occasional "nice" bird or game bird. Coyotes eat tons of rodents, a few rabbits, some persimmons, and on occasion will eat the navel out of a calf while it is being born. (This has been witnessed multiple times by a reliable source not just repeating a myth.) I have never shot at a coyote on my place (yet.) I do not search for poisonous snakes on my place but if I happen across one it is history. Non-poisonous varieties are not harmed. To a degree we all tend to play at being God, setting our own rules and punishments.
There are precious few actions anyone takes that are devoid of consequences, whether or not they are recognized, intended, or wanted. You choose to spend time and money on the kittens, perhaps unmindful of the hundreds of cute little birds they will kill over their collective lives. Another person might have euthanized them (humanely) and saved the birds at the expense of having no natural control over barn rodents.
I'm reminded of the song... "there aren't no good guys there aren't no bad guys, there's just you and me and we just disagree." (Or something close...)
Whether we like it or not, all our actions such as saving kittens, poisoning rats, feeding birds, or whatever, all have consequences. Every living thing in doing anything disturbs the delicate web of life that connects us all. We all, at best, can only do what we can in taking a path that does the least damage. The best you can do is to choose wisely and minimize negative effects.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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jimbrown
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Open the door and let them out. feedem in the barn if you want. We have three dogs and two cats and they come and go from inside to outside at will. You could not run any of them off. One of the cats (a bengal ) catches mice rats and whatever at an enormous rate. He catches them and feeds them to the dogs which just love the big rats.
Another lunch.
Edited by jimbrown (03/25/08 02:51 PM)
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egon
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Re: What do I do?
[re: Pat]
03/25/08 03:42 PM
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Just get some bigger cats! 
Egon 
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Re: What do I do?
[re: Pat]
03/25/08 06:38 PM
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Pat you are truely killing me. I cried when the 2 mice in the barn died (of what I am not sure) Try to be a little more easier with me. I am looking at my bottle of happy pills........
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Pat
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Re: What do I do?
[re: egon]
03/26/08 04:01 PM
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Egon, Bigger cats are not necessarily easer on mice.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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egon
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Re: What do I do?
[re: Pat]
03/26/08 05:14 PM
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That may be true but they may shift to eating coyotes for lunch!
Egon
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kellenw
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Re: What do I do?
[re: jimbrown]
03/26/08 06:17 PM
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jimbrown - Every time you show a pic of that cat, I am amazed by its beauty. Stunning specimen.
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jimbrown
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Re: What do I do?
[re: kellenw]
03/26/08 07:36 PM
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How about these?
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Pat
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Re: What do I do?
[re: egon]
03/27/08 11:34 AM
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I don't think I know the regulations where the cats are but if it were California you would probably be in violation of some law if your domestic animals ate a wild creature. Not filing an appropriate application and doing an environmental impact study can carry large penalties.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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jml755
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Re: What do I do?
[re: Pat]
03/27/08 11:58 AM
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Pat,
Shhhh, some beuracrat will hear you and decide they can make some money by requiring a "domesticated hunter" license for the mouser. Pretty soon, the cats will have to attend a hunter's safety class, only hunt mice between dawn and dusk (but not during mouse mating season, whenever that is) and wear orange vests with the license on the back.
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Pat
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Re: What do I do?
[re: jml755]
03/28/08 07:42 AM
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What about claw length and diameter (caliber) and on and on.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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Re: What do I do?
[re: Pat]
04/05/08 02:36 PM
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I am afraid to post anymore. Pat scares me. He is mentally and verbally on a higher plain than I. Is there room for more timid less learned people? Even where I posted on the cooking thread. I don't know how to make a brisket or even a roast for that matter. Take pity on me Pat and mold me in your image. You remind me of my older brother. He is very smart like you. I call him my "lobe". He got the other part of my brain I am missing.
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Pat
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"Take pity on me Pat and mold me in your image."
Be careful what you wish for!
You are much much too modest regarding your ability as a wordsmith. Your humorous sarcasm cast as praise is as good as I have seen around here in a while.
Not to worry though, I have a doctor appointment in a few weeks and if the voices coming out of the electrical outlets don't talk me out of it I will ask him to consider modifying my meds, especially the mellowing agents, I like it when I don't have to stay at the home.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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egon
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Re: What do I do?
[re: Pat]
04/06/08 04:31 AM
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Do you still require supervision when the fellows take your jacket off so you can type?
Egon
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Pat
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Re: What do I do?
[re: egon]
04/06/08 08:28 AM
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Egon, Do you not recall my recent comment about voice activated text entry? (We were discussing typing speed and such.)
While intended for people with physical handicaps rather than mental, they are nevertheless pretty handy in certain limiting situations.
Oh, and thanks for the PM regarding a source of cooked fava beans. That will be most useful, later. (preceding is thinly veiled sub rosa for those who are trying to follow the "inside" portion of the exchange)
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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egon
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Re: What do I do?
[re: Pat]
04/06/08 03:38 PM
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Uhh - what were you saying Pat?
I am waiting for Jass to find my package so I can open it it!
Egon
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Bird
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Re: What do I do?
[re: egon]
04/06/08 05:22 PM
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You guys are just lucky. I'm afraid my package got opened long ago, and all the contents spilled out and got lost.
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egon
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Re: What do I do?
[re: Bird]
04/06/08 07:23 PM
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Lucky Bird?
Mine is lost and Ive never even got to see it!
Egon 
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Pat
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Re: What do I do?
[re: egon]
04/07/08 10:06 AM
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Egon, Package, package.... I din't git no stinkin' package!
Pat
Pseudo epilogue... Although it can be highly entertaining to the denizens of greater temporal stature it may nevertheless be somewhat unsettling to the "malahini" who doesn't recognize the existing order or grasp the nuances of the "inside" exchanges.
(Now over to you Jazz...)
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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kellenw
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Re: What do I do?
[re: jimbrown]
04/07/08 11:55 PM
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Nice pics jimbrown! Wow!
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Re: What do I do?
[re: Pat]
04/09/08 04:23 PM
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OK! I am posting again. I am sticking my neck out there, the jugular, waiting on Pat to pounce............... can I join the club since I retired early on a MENTAL MEDICAL? Bet I got you all beat!
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Bird
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You mean you put on a better act than Klinger did?
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Re: What do I do?
[re: Bird]
04/09/08 05:12 PM
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Klinger was a wanna be. I am the real thing. I can only post once a week because it takes me the rest of the week to try and figure out what Pat is saying. I have to look up alot of words. Pat, I am a sponge, just soaking it up.
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Pat
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Anyone ever hear the old phrase, "First liar doesn't stand a chance!"
Well, now you have seen it in action.
Mam, I bow to your superior one undermanship. Would have used non sexist term but one underperson's ship didn't feel right.
Like just the right amount of a sweet desert, sometimes more isn't better.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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egon
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Re: What do I do?
[re: Pat]
04/10/08 05:28 AM
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With the proper cat the on site licencing agents may also be used to cut down on food bills!
Egon
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egon
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Aha -- some of us were born that way ehh!
Egon
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Re: What do I do?
[re: Pat]
04/10/08 08:57 AM
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I have been a robot for years. Reacting and not thinking. Now that I am no longer a cog, maybe I can start thinking again. My hands were also involved in the medical, but the mental was definitely approved with the hands. I enjoy your posts cause I have to really think. Something I haven't tried in awhile. My brother is so much like you. He is 55. Is that you or are you more ancient?
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Pat
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Gone, Did you post your age in your bio?
OK, big revelation... The year I was born it was such a shock to the US economy they couldn't afford to make pennies out of copper.
Yes, I was only joking about playing on rocks that hadn't cooled yet when I was a kid. Not quite that old but getting up there. My ET in the 440 has fallen dramatically. Retired early, haven't regretted it. Haven't been on a payroll this century.
MY hands were involved with things medical for a while. I designed and developed medical electronic instruments for a while, a couple blood analyzers (dual beam ultraviolet spectrophotometers) and a few lesser gadgets and a hot/cold therapy machine developed for racehorses but also marketed for people (sports medicine especially.)
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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Re: What do I do?
[re: Pat]
04/13/08 09:15 AM
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I am 43 and since retiring have gained too much weight! I had a no brainer job were I was just a mule. So cool the job that you did. Had to have a science and math brain for that. (Which I do not) Just trying to figure out what to have for dinner is a plague to me. You're the complete package, book sense with common sense. I have a little book sense.
On a new note, I took all the ferral cats this week and had them neuetered and spayed and had their rabies shots given. I used a humane cage. So easy to catch. HOWEVER, no one told me how to get them from humane cage to regular cat cages. In the process I was bit by to of the buggers. Had to go to the doctor's and get an antibiotic. Funny thing here, I thought they would give me at least a tetnus shot and quarentine the animals. NOT! Said rabies hadn't been seen here in over 13 years. So if you don't hear from me in 3 months, I have become rabid and have died. Fitting ending for me I think.
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Pat
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Country, Well, I'm glad I'm not the only one who has to struggle to understand what I am saying! Sometimes it is like having a swarm of bees buzzing inside my head, but well, there they are.
Your adventures in kitten sitting reminded me of my (now ex) brother in law the preacher. I was raising rats in a cage to feed to a horned owl I was rehabilitating for release. He goes up to the cage and sticks his finger in it near one of the rats and then asks if they bite. He was well bitten before he finished the question. A good puncture wound dripping blood profusely. I nodded and replied, yes.
You didn't refer to my age clue about the pennies so I don't know if you "got it." Lets go a different route... Depending on your zodiac sign, I could probably have legally bought a drink to celebrate your birth.
I only mentioned the medical electronics because it seemed to fit. I only did that for a couple years during my entrepreneurial and free lance consultant phase.
I have only ever "owned" 2 cats, a magnificient seal tip Siamese tom cat and one of his kittens. I gave the kitten to someone who lost theirs and the tom cat just went away and didn't come back. He was too friendly and probably got "adopted."
Apparently I have "joint custody" of at least three barn cats. as a neighbor lady who lives close to my hay barn has these cats and they hang out in my barn. I am not really a cat person but I don't mind the cats in the barn as I don't think they hurt anything and might even keep down the rodent population. I do take a "hard line" with any feral cats that use our bird feeders as adjuncts to their hunting grounds. Our intent in feeding the birds is NOT to indirectly feed the cats. It isn't a big problem as I have only shot two so far this century.
If I decided I wanted cats I have a ready source, a friend/neighbor guy who has multiple litters each year in his resident cat population and always finds homes for the excess. I have helped him place kittens but have not succumbed to their charms as of yet.
In case you have to handle any more of the little wild things, wear a couple layers of leather gloves. It may not stop their needle sharp teeth completely but it will sure help.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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egon
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Re: What do I do?
[re: Pat]
04/14/08 04:29 PM
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In reply to:
legally bought a drink to celebrate your birth.
Uh - I can remember buying bottles of pop at a quite young age!
Egon
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jimbrown
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Re: What do I do?
[re: Pat]
04/14/08 06:09 PM
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Pat Me 1943.
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Pat
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Re: What do I do?
[re: egon]
04/15/08 08:03 AM
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Egon, At times, forbearance too is a virtue, or at least the ability to eschew obfuscation.
If you are struggling with the difference between denotative and connotative meanings or had difficulty perceiving the context, let me state that I could have legally bought liquor (in additioin to soda pop.) If that doesn't do it for you, how about making legally binding contracts, or voting in national referenda, having reached my majority under the, then, law of the land.
Pardon my assumption that you are sufficiently versed in the above matters as applicable to the U.S. of A. to understand my meaning without needing further assistance in decoding the obvious. I really don't think it necessary to have it translated into any particular Canadian dialect.
I have little doubt there was any struggle on the part of the intended recipient to comprehend the magnitude of our age difference or the fact that I am most likely approximately in her parents generation.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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Pat
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Re: What do I do?
[re: jimbrown]
04/15/08 08:08 AM
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Jim, OK, OK. I admit it. Maybe I had help and was not solely responsible for having such an impact on the US economy as to force the change in the composition of the penny. As a young lad, seeing all those "funny pennies" in circulation and noting they were all of the same vintage as myself, and not having achieved a proper external world view, I was perhaps premature and hasty in deciding it was my fault. Heck, it could have been partly because there was a war on.
Oh, and you were a cute kid. The car was pretty neat too.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
Edited by Pat (04/15/08 08:09 AM)
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Re: What do I do?
[re: Pat]
04/15/08 02:26 PM
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Assumptions can lead to less than the desired results!
Egon
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jimbrown
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Loc: Tombstone, AZ
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Re: What do I do?
[re: Pat]
04/15/08 04:56 PM
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A 1941 Ford V8 delux. my dad paid $600 for it new.
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Pat
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Re: What do I do?
[re: egon]
04/16/08 12:23 PM
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Yes, Egon, as you said and I quote, "Assumptions can lead to less than the desired results!"
Correctly made they can make an otherwise impossible or difficult problem solvable. All of science and engineering is rife with simplifying assumptions. There is risk, but "well done" assumptions can be practical, economical, and useful.
Without simplifying assumptions even the simplest interactions are too complex to deal with computationally.
Recall my favorite Einstein quote... "Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler." Ahh, hinting there at the last to avoid oversimplification.
I don't think any of us could make it through the day (unless in a coma) without making thousands if not millions or billions of assumptions.
Assumptions are and have been both misunderstood, under appreciated, and inappropriately the butt of sophomoric humor but without them we would all grind to a halt in moments.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
Edited by Pat (04/16/08 12:25 PM)
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Pat
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Re: What do I do?
[re: jimbrown]
04/16/08 12:37 PM
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A very nice car. We must remember that $600 was real money back then.
One of those in restored condition would cost a mint today.
I remember when my dad paid $4000 (if I recall correctly) For a 1959 Buick that looked like the Batmobile, black with chrome trim that started as headlight rims and went all the way back to tail fins that would have provided sufficient lift to fly if the car would have gone faster. As it was it easily topped 120MPH.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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Bird
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Re: What do I do?
[re: Pat]
04/16/08 12:42 PM
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Pat, do Oklahoma vehicle titles still show original new cost? I know they did 50 years ago and my first car, a 1946 Chevy 2 dr. sedan, originally cost just a little over a thousand dollars. Of course it was 10 years old with 90k+ miles on it when I got it in Marlow, OK, for $75.
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Pat
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Re: What do I do?
[re: Bird]
04/16/08 12:49 PM
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Bird, I don't know. I haven't paid enough attention, I guess.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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jimbrown
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Re: What do I do?
[re: Bird]
04/16/08 06:12 PM
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Bird My Dad's second new car must have been a 1946 Chevy. What ever the first year they sold them after the war. They were in such demand that he had to sneak down to the dealer on a Sunday when they were supposed to be close to pick it up. later traded that for a bright maroon 49 mercury. Now that was a good looking car wish I had it today.
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Re: What do I do?
[re: Pat]
04/17/08 09:30 AM
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I new there was "clue" about your penny remark, but I tried to research it and gave up! I am a Leo. Funny you had a siamese. I have had a siamese since I was 5. I was the weird cat lady at one time. I had 10 that were all closely related in age. My ex husband would make some horrible err and bip bam boom, I had another siamese. They all lived out their lives inside, the last dying at 19 years. With pure breds comes lots of genetic sickness. I was tired of the heartache of loosing them. Then a kitten showed up and hubby and kids fed it. Tried to let it be an outside cat, but it killed chipmunks and birds and now FAT LOUEY is inside. Coming home from where I used to board my horses, in a raging thunderstorm, a small cat was standing in the road SCREAMING. My 6 year old came unglued and now Annabelle lives with Fat Louey. I didn't want no more "stinking cats". Yesterday, a new cat, NOT NEUTERED, strolled up. I give up!
Thank you for telling me to use gloves. Sad thing is, I had a pair of leather gloves beside me the whole time. Guess I should change my name to DUMBBLONDE!
Edited by gonecountry (04/17/08 09:32 AM)
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