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Richard
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Any Veterinarians here for an 2nd opinion?
03/07/06 12:33 PM
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One of our dogs has recently been to see our vet so this is just to see if anyone has a 2nd idea.
We've all seen a dog do the "body shake" when they're wet. They'll shake their whole body AND perhaps at the end, keep their head shaking a bit, almost violently yet it's with specific intention.
Otis seems to have this head (only) shaking syndrome. Mind you all his shots are up to date, I took him to see our vet perhaps 8 weeks ago about this VERY issue and he could find nothing. He gave Otis a box of prednazone to take over a week... (I hate doing that proceedure, such a pain)
Anyways, the pills ran out, his head shaking continues. Last week, went back to same vet for his annual checkup/shots and all seems fine. Dr. even asked again about his head shaking and checked his ears again.
Here are the "symptoms"
Otis will be standing/sitting/laying down and just shake his head as though it were soaking wet (violently, yet with intent as mentioned above). He won't shake his body, just his head. He DOES NOT scratch at his head. We thought he might have fleas/mites/other in his ears which I guess is still possible but I'd expect our Vet to have noticed that.
During the night, poor Otis will be up almost all night with this intermittent and determined head shaking. Sometimes, he'll do it every 60/90 seconds for 10 minutes...then perhaps do nothing for 30 minutes.
Since he has floppy ears, they make the flop sound as he does it which helps to wake ME up during the night.
So, not only am I laying in bed feeling bad at his apparent discomfort (and again, he's NOT scratching at his ears/head at all) but I'm also feeling my OWN discomfort for not being able to keep a good sleep going.
I have a little video of this but as I found out, it's something like 13 mb's in size  . I didn't know my little digital camera would even HOLD something like that.
So, He's been to the Vet 2 times in last say, 10 weeks, everything "seems" find/dandy, yet he continues his tortured head shake at all times of the day. Given I'm not at home during the day, I'd venture to say it's worse at night. No evident signs of fleas/other in his head.
Is that symptomatic of anything that my vet might be missing? Should I ask doc to take a head scan?
Thanks for any thoughts
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egon
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Re: Any Veterinarians here for an 2nd opinion?
[re: Richard]
03/07/06 02:44 PM
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Can you get an opinion from another vet?
Egon.
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Richard
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Re: Any Veterinarians here for an 2nd opinion?
[re: egon]
03/08/06 08:09 AM
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Oh, I am intending that. It's a bit more difficult for me to do since I live so far out of town. I usually have to do it on the weekends.
I was just putting this up here in case anyone cared to opine on their thoughts.
When Otis contracted Blasto Mycosis, it was my wifes dogged determination knowing "something" was wrong that kept us taking the dog back & back to the vet.
Seems she (wife) caught it so early, the symptoms were just barely noticable on the xrays (seems blasto has a charasteristic pattern on lung x-ray)
Had the symptoms we noticed matured a bit more, the diagnosis would have probalby been a bit more quick. As it was, he sort of stumbled onto noticing "something" in the x-rays when we took Otis back the following time.
If indeed something IS going on there (and it may not be), I'd rather catch it sooner than later, as such, if anyone has a thought as to "hmmm... that might be an early indication of..." then perhaps, I can bring that to the Vet's attention given that he might not think about that right off the bat (as per the Blasto situation).
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GaryM
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Re: Any Veterinarians here for an 2nd opinion?
[re: Richard]
03/08/06 12:43 PM
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My first Black Lab did that. It was caused by ear mites and wax build up. There was a liquid that was dropped in the ear to kill the mites and soften/remove the wax. My wife treated that dog twice a day for a long time, then a preventive treatment every week or so. Drip in the liquid then hold and rub his ears.
Of course your dogs issues may be caused by something completly unrelated.
Gary
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Fred
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Re: Any Veterinarians here for an 2nd opinion?
[re: Richard]
03/08/06 03:14 PM
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Do the dog's ears smell? That's always a sign of ear problems, but you can usually see the gunk, too. Either way I can't believe the vet missed anything if it was just an ear problem, unless something got lodged deep down inside, outside of his scopes view. He did look into the dog's ears with a scope, right?
Might even be something in the dog's mouth. That may cause it to shake his head, it's just that you think ears when they have floppy ears.
I'd make a drive to another vet.
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gsganzer
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Re: Any Veterinarians here for an 2nd opinion?
[re: Richard]
03/08/06 03:56 PM
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I didn't see where you mentioned what breed (or predominant breed) Otis is? Is he a lab?
Labs have a poorly designed ear that can let water get trapped when they swim. This then causes ear infections. The ears don't get a lot of gunk (like with mites), in fact, they can look spotless and clean. If you have a light skinned (skin, not fur) you might notice the insides of his ears are red and might feel warm. My yellow lab seldom scratched his ears, but he did shake his head frequently. This happens to us almost every spring when he starts swimming in the stock tanks on hot days. There's two types of drops you put in the ears. One is a cleaner (Epi-Otic) that helps dry up the water, the other is more of an oil based antibiotic (Tri-Top or Oto-max). It clears up after a few days of treatment.
You can find them on petmeds.com
Edited by gsganzer (03/08/06 04:18 PM)
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Pat
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Re: Any Veterinarians here for an 2nd opinion?
[re: gsganzer]
03/08/06 04:58 PM
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Have you ever shot around this dog or has it ever experienced loud noises. Tinitus is a possibility. Of course tinitus doesn't require loud noises to cause it but an exposure at some time to a loud noise can make it more likely.
Swim Ear is a product that my wife uses as she is prone to ear problems when she gets waer in her ears which has happened several times since she is open ocean SCUBA qualified. I also worked with a SURFER who surfed virtually every day and had to use drops i his ears afgter every wetting.
The ear flapping noise doesn't help you or the dog. Consider a sort of ski mask to restrain the ears. Panty hose or similar can make a sort of hair net which covers the ears. This is sometimes done to keep long haired dogs from getting their ears filled with debris like weed seeds and such.
None of the above are intended to in any way encourage you to delay getting a second professional vet exam from another vet. Wouldn't you hate it if the cause wasn't fixed and it drove the dog mad. Dogs can get "mental" from problems such as these and would require yoi to put it down or sedate it till its quality of life was severly reduced.
Best of luck for a speedy resollution,
 Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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Fred
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Re: Any Veterinarians here for an 2nd opinion?
[re: Pat]
03/08/06 10:51 PM
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In reply to:
Dogs can get "mental" from problems such as these and would require yoi to put it down or sedate it till its quality of life was severly reduced.
Well, I have to agree. Putting it down would certainly severely reduce its quality of life.
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Richard
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Re: Any Veterinarians here for an 2nd opinion?
[re: Fred]
03/09/06 05:22 AM Attachment
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Otis is (we’re told) a retriever mix. Other than a bath every now & then he rarely gets wet.
Fred: I’ve not noticed any smells in ear (not tried either), hadn’t thought about mouth angle and don’t recall my vet checking in there other than a cursory review of teeth.
Gsganzer, I’ll try to post pic of him but I could see him being considered light skinned
Pat: Other than my Klipschorns, he’s not around much loud stuff.
His ears WERE looked into by the vet using his little scope thing. They do appear to be pink but it looks more to me like a natural pink, rather than from being scratched.
Hoping on getting to vet this Saturday unless I can take him into work with me!!!
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Fred
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Re: Any Veterinarians here for an 2nd opinion?
[re: Richard]
03/09/06 06:20 AM
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Otis looks like a great dog, like a Golden mix maybe and I haven't met a bad one yet.
Let us know what they find out. I'm very curious and want to file the answer in the memory banks.
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Pat
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Re: Any Veterinarians here for an 2nd opinion?
[re: Fred]
03/09/06 11:33 AM
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Fred, Maybe you will understand it if I say it this way:
Dogs can get "mental" from problems such as these and would require you to: 1. put it down OR 2. sedate it till its quality of life was severly reduced.
I'm not sure how to address the issue regarding how death might be an improvement in quality of life but sometimes it can be.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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Richard
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Re: Any Veterinarians here for an 2nd opinion?
[re: Pat]
03/09/06 11:39 AM
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(drumming fingers)
Awaiting the return call of the Vet... (the one for the 2nd opinion...he's at lunch... THE NERVE!!!)
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phxraptor
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Re: Any Veterinarians here for an 2nd opinion?
[re: Richard]
03/10/06 08:45 PM
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Your dog has an ear problem of some sort. See if your Vet will give you a prescription for Otomax and follow the label instructions.
Gettin Back To My Country Roots
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Richard
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Re: Any Veterinarians here for an 2nd opinion?
[re: phxraptor]
03/11/06 10:18 AM
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He's got mites! Saw them myself under the microscope, PRETTY things  .
As I was told, those can be transmitted from dog to dog (or cat) but they need close contact.
Close contact is just what I have between Otis & Chloe, or Chloe & Tubby, or Tubby & Newt (uncle's dog next door) or Otis/Chloe & Blacky the cat. You will notice that Otis & Tubby are not listed together... they both think they're each the Alpha male... creates interesting moments at times
Evidently, Chloe was clean (she was with us to and got a 'courtesy checkup').
So, Otis got 2 months worth of the medication (apply on back verses ear drops), Chloe, Tubby, Newt all got ONE application and Blackie got 7 (my understanding is these will replace her other stuff)
Anyways, we're going back in 3 weeks so the Vet can get an idea of how successful the treatments are/have been and to if need be, irrigate his ears, though he said he didn't think that would be necessary. Evidently it's a minor infestation rather than a big colony .
Interesting sidebar, he (Vet) said his trade magazine once had a story about another vet who found these and wondered just what they felt like to a dog...so he (the other vet) inserted them into HIS ears and then for like a month or so, kept sort of a daily diary as to the symptoms... even to the point of noting that evidently since the mites are right near the eardrum, they are LOUD!!
In addition to that, they had cycles of activity they went through which is clearly what we experienced with Otis (being more tormented at night)
Was very glad to hear that's all it is. I just got home and just finished giving ALL the animals (or herd as the vet called them) their medications. Vet said he was supposed to see them prior to giving it but since we clearly had a problem and they're all rolling around it wasn't unreasonable the others might have it... so (since I'm like 35 miles away from this guy) I figured I'd rather be safe than sorry and prefer to treat them all at least once.
Fortunately for me, while we were at the vet, Otis did the head shake several times, but ONE time in the mannor that concerns us. So the Vet got to witness the "something is wrong" headshake instead of the "I'm only adjusting my collar" headshake.
Thanks to all for your thoughts. I will admit, I was prepared to fork out $$ for x-rays & stuff, had this turned up negative. As it is, we're presuming this is the entire issue and as such, is now on the road to being corrected.
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Fred
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Re: Any Veterinarians here for an 2nd opinion?
[re: Richard]
03/11/06 11:13 AM
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That's a lot of treating being done
I'm glad they found the problem and I'll bet Otis is very glad
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Richard
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Re: Any Veterinarians here for an 2nd opinion?
[re: Fred]
03/11/06 12:26 PM
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In reply to:
That's a lot of treating being done
Ya, $300.00 worth 
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GaryM
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Re: Any Veterinarians here for an 2nd opinion?
[re: Richard]
03/11/06 09:02 PM
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That's a brave Vet. I know that I wouldn't have the guts to put ear mites in MY ears so I could know what it's like.
That's a man dedicated to his profession!
Gary
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Pat
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Re: Any Veterinarians here for an 2nd opinion?
[re: GaryM]
03/24/06 09:52 PM
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Gary, What if he gets curious about Ebola or hemoraghic fever????????
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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GaryM
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Re: Any Veterinarians here for an 2nd opinion?
[re: Pat]
03/25/06 01:47 PM
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He'd better write his report in shorthand!
Gary
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Pat
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Re: Any Veterinarians here for an 2nd opinion?
[re: GaryM]
03/26/06 01:51 PM
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He might not have a choice!
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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BlueRidge
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Re: Any Veterinarians here for an 2nd opinion?
[re: Richard]
04/18/06 09:29 AM
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He gave Otis a box of prednazone to take over a week...
Obviously, you need a new vet. If he missed something as simple and obvious as ear mites, it's not surprising that he'd be so stupid as to prescribe prednizone for head shaking!!! 
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