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kentwiles4563
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Hauling horses around
06/22/05 02:25 PM
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We're moving to the country and we would like opinions on what kind of truck we should get. It won't be our family vehicle, more like a workhorse for hauling hay, horses etc.
I know we will need a 4x4 pickup truck. I don't want an extended cab because I'll need a full standard size bed. Can a Toyota Tacoma haul a horse trailer and two horses?
Should I get a 5000 lbs tow capacity or more?
Please share your experience.
Thank you much! 
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Bird
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There is no doubt that you can equip a Tacoma to pull 5k pounds, but personally, I'd go with a full size pickup, whether Toyota Tundra, Nissan, Ford, Chevy, or Dodge. Three-quarter ton is even better, but all the larger V-8 powered half ton trucks can pull upwards of 8,000 pounds.
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jwstewar
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See my response in the vehicles section.
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jimbrown
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First you need to decide what kind of horse trailer you are going to buy and how much it weighs. Next how big are your horses. Where are you going to haul your tack feed cooler and other stuff. I would not think of a truck that was not at least an extended cab. I have two trucks A GMC 1500 4x4 with 4.8 V8 It is rated to haual 7000lbs. It will but not very happily. I regularly haul two horses. It struggles to run the legal speed limit on I-10 It will not pull 4th gear with horses and trailer. I also have an Avalanch 4x4 with the 5.3 V8 it is rated for the same 7000lb it pulls a little better but is not great. You are going to need more truck than you think. If this is not a daily driver as you stated I would consider a used 3/4 over a new 1/2 ton. You will be a lot happier.
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mfaley
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I think the others are on track with this. Determine what your needs are and then the solution is easy to determine.
There are 2 separate schools of thought with horses/trailers/trucks. What can I get by with and what would be safe. Admittedly, I am in the “what is the safest” school.
We haul 2 horses at least twice a week for 100 mile round trip year round and then on longer runs from CA to AZ, NV, TX, OK. I can say that I would never haul with anything less than a ¾ ton diesel unless those 2 horses are mini’s.
“Most” of the time a half ton will work but it’s never the “Most” of the time situations that get you in trouble. It usually starts small….like fly bites one horse belly so he is kicking and biting to get rid of it. The horse next to him acts up and starts to scramble in the trailer. How is all that commotion going to treat you when you are running down hill around a corner in a lighter framed and lighter braked rig while trying to stop?
If your trailer is an aluminum gooseneck you might get by with a lighter truck but with a bumper pull you will find the trailer, even with good brakes, will push the truck.
I would agree with Jim. Look around for a good quality 4x4 diesel ¾ ton from Ford, Dodge, or GM. You will be much happier in the long run.
Personally I think you can find a good deal on a nice used Dodge ¾ 4x4 with manual 5spd for a pretty good price. And remember, if you take care of the engine 100k miles is not even half way through the engines expected life. I don’t say this to offend any Japanese truck owners. Its just that they don’t choose to built/import a rig that will haul heavy loads yet.
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BlueRidge
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Most people focus on how much you can pull.
How about how much you can STOP? Most trucks out there are woefully underbraked for the loads they pull.
Yes, absolutely figure out how much you intend to pull - that's got to be the first step. But then go looking for a truck that is rated to STOP that load.
And don't make the mistake that a friend of my father's did. He got the smaller engine thinking he'd save gas. Wrong. It was underpowered so he was always having to push the engine to its limit. He did NOT get better mileage, and it didn't last long, either.
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roho627
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I think the 2nd sentence in U'r 1st paragraph is the zinger! A work horse so I'd go with at least a 3/4 ton extended cab! As was mentioned, hauling & braking(stopping) needs to be in consideration and if U got a 100 or so bales of hay and start to stop, Oh well! Anyway a 2 horse outfit with trailering and hauling hay and feed, I just don't think U'r gonna be satisfied unless YOU start out with at least that! Brands(ford, dodge, etc) don't matter much but I'd stick with a diesel. . .
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MDSteve
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We haul 2-4 horses for trail rides every weekend. We used to have a bumper pull trailer but recently picked up a gooseneck and it is amazing. We feed our horses round bails that are stored inside a barn and can fit 2 in the back of my F250. I opted to get the crew cab because everyone in the family rides and didn't want to have to take 2 vehicles.
Steve
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Pat
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Re: Hauling horses around
[re: MDSteve]
07/23/05 05:57 AM
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kentwiles, Oregon huh? Mountains... YOU NEED a diesel with a good exhaust brake. Diesels have zero compressive braking, i.e. no "back drag" when you take yoiur foot off the accelerator. A loaded diesel on a decent downgrade with turns is a recipe for disaster. In addition to the good exhaust brake you want all wheels on the trailer to have good brakes and you want a good brrake controller. The difference of 20-40 bucks on the controller can make a night and day difference in performance. Anyone who suggests a 1/2 ton truck for your needs is just not doing you a favor... PERIOD!
Don't be afraid to get an automatic. You may want to add a tranny cooler but automatics are used an aful lot in heavy duty towing operations and work real fine. They are much better that a stick for less experienced operators. Driving with a load on is way different from empty but an auto makes it pretty simple.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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Michael
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Pat is dead-on with this one, nothing less than a 3/4 ton. I had the pleasure of owning a Tacoma 4wd, it was a great truck but there is no way that I would pull anything more that a lawnmower or ATV with it. I now have a 01 Chevy K2500 HD, it will pull anything that I could throw at it. Also, I can't speak for Dodge or Ford, but Chevy and GMC offers the tranny cooler as standard equipment on automatic models as well as a tow-mode that runs to a higher RPM before shifting gears.
You ARE a redneck if... you knew someone whose last words were "Hey y'all, watch this!"
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Pat
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Re: Hauling horses around
[re: Michael]
07/31/05 09:19 AM
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Michael, For most "normal" towing the tranny cooler (in the radiator on my 1 ton Dodge/Cummins 4x4 or is a dually a 6x6? with automagic tranny) is fine but for really rugged service an added heat exchanger (tranny fluid to air with thermostatic controlled fan is a good idea.) It will extend the life of the tranny and the fluid. A linear increase in tranny temp gives an exponential decrease in fluid and tranny life once you get beyond normal operating temps. It is hard to OVERCOOL your tranny and using a thermostatic controlled fan on the cooler is a good idea.
It can help a lot in more extreme situations like hot weather, heavy loads, hills, etc and will cause no harm even if it is not needed. I think it is a win win way to go. If you never tow more than several hundred pounds and don't ATTACK steep grades and stay away from full throttle climbing hills (opting for lower gears and lower speeds) then you probably will not gain much from an additional tranny cooler. If you really GO FOR IT then I recommend an additional tranny cooler. If you don't put on many towing miles and trade your trucks in at really low miles then you probably don't want another tranny cooler. I'm driving a '97 Dodge/Cummins that is just getting well broken in.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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FL_Cracker
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How much you can pull is only 1/2 the problem. How much can you STOP. Most people try to get by with as little truck as they can and will regret it later. It you plan to travel any distance don't shortcut the truck. You want to be able to tow the trailer and do it without a struggle. That make it easy and comfortable for the driver. If you go gooseneck I would go for the 3/4 Ton (I.E. Ford F250) A diesel pulls great on long trips. If you are only doing local pulls to the horse shows or trails (5-10 Mile) you may be able to get by with a 1/2 Ton (I.E. Ford F150) With a 1/2 Ton I would stay with a bumper pull type trailer. Make sure you get the right hitch and always use a brake controler. Stopping is more important than going.
I would rather have an older 3/4 Ton than a brand new F150 when it comes to towing. I have hundreds of thousands of towing miles under my belt and I can tell you that I hated every mile I towed something with too small of a truck.
Good Luck,
Hunt, Fish & Play to avoid WORK
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Michael
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Re: Hauling horses around
[re: Pat]
08/03/05 02:33 PM
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Pat,
That is why my HD is a standard shift.
You ARE a redneck if... you knew someone whose last words were "Hey y'all, watch this!"
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Pat
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Re: Hauling horses around
[re: Michael]
08/04/05 08:39 AM
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In many situations in the hands (feet?) of a skilled operator, a good manual tranny with a decent clutch is a superior solution, more robust, less inclined to break, and way cheaper to repair if ever needed. There are exceptions. There are off road situations and special circumstances (long steep slipery boat ramps) where the best manual driver is outperformed by a moderately skilled driver with an automagic tranny.
Starting up from a dead stop with a heavy load on a steep hill is not easy for a manual driver or on a clutch but toss in so-so traction and the automagic tranny usually wins. Still, on ballance, with a skilled driver a manual works fine and provides circulation enhancing lower extremety exercise, especially with a narrow range diesel which requires lots of shifting.
The "big rigs" are going AUTOMATIC... and claim equal or better mileage and maint costs. I wonder if it is also a statement about the current crop of drivers but should keep that snide remark to myself. OOPS!!!
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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Bird
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Re: Hauling horses around
[re: Pat]
08/04/05 09:25 AM
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In reply to:
The "big rigs" are going AUTOMATIC... and claim equal or better mileage and maint costs. I wonder if it is also a statement about the current crop of drivers but should keep that snide remark to myself. OOPS!!!
Of course, at my age, a lot of my information and knowledge is dated, but I can remember when the tow ratings for pickups were higher with manual transmissions, then later went higher for automatics. When I started in law enforcement in 1964, the City had nothing but manual transmissions. We got our first automatic transmission police sedans in 1969. And eventually, but gradually, the City started changing to automatic transmissions in just about everything, even the packers on garbage trucks. Instead of a PTO off the transmission, they used hydraulic pumps run off "fan" belts. And the main reason for the change to automatics was lower maintenance costs. I think it's always cost more to have an automatic transmission repaired than to have a manual transmission repaired, but one of the city mechanics told me it's actually easier to repair the automatics if you know what you're doing.
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Pat
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Re: Hauling horses around
[re: Bird]
08/04/05 09:21 PM
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Bird, I guess that just about kicks the last prop out from under the SUPERIOR MANUAL TRANNY myth. Of course some makers hitch a puny auto tranny to Cummins torque monster and the result can be a disaster in need of after market assistance. The original auto tranny in my Dodge/Cummins freewheeled in 4th gear which made the use of an exhaust brake useless until after market equipment was installed.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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egon
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Re: Hauling horses around
[re: Pat]
08/05/05 05:23 AM
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You mean someone is going to miss the arm through the wheel, both hands on shift levers and double cluching thingy???
Egon
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FL_Cracker
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Re: Hauling horses around
[re: egon]
08/05/05 07:21 AM
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You know, just because Grandpa and good old Dad ALWAYS HAD ONE doesn't mean it was the best way...
Sorry Grandpa and Dad ~ they have come up with better stuff
Hunt, Fish & Play to avoid WORK
Edited by FL_Cracker (08/05/05 07:22 AM)
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Bird
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Re: Hauling horses around
[re: Pat]
08/05/05 09:34 AM
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In reply to:
The original auto tranny in my Dodge/Cummins freewheeled in 4th gear
Pat, there are so many different transmissions, even among the same manufacturers that I haven't kept up to date with them at all. When my brother had the Matco Tool distributorship, he had a GMC Topkick with Cat diesel (200hp I think) and an Allison transmission. He never had a problem with the transmission, but I didn't like it because it was one of those that free wheeled when you let off the accelerator. The engine and tach dropped back to an idle and you just kept rolling except for the brakes. When he got out of that business the guy who replaced him on that route got a Freightliner with a 300hp Cat and an Allison automatic. I drove his route for him for a week while he took a vacation and that Freightliner was a pleasure to drive, and when you let off the accelerator it felt much like the engine braking you'd expect with a gasoline powered vehicle and as it slowed down, you'd feel it downshifting before you stopped.
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Pat
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Re: Hauling horses around
[re: egon]
08/05/05 09:38 PM
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Egon, I once won a small bet by being able to start the engine, drive a distance using all forward gears, and then stop a pickup without ever touching the clutch. It was lightly loaded and I got 'er done. Not good practice for day to day operations but I can shift without a clutch, much less needing to double clutch, which I can.
I can heel and toe as well.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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Pat
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Re: Hauling horses around
[re: Bird]
08/05/05 09:49 PM
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Bird, With the after market kit on the tranny (or with my new tranny) you can lock up the torque converter in any gear with no problems (except you need to be out of the after market aux OverUnder Drive) so the exhaust brake can function just fine to really hold you back (not quite as good as a REAL Jake brake but pretty good.) It automatically unlocks the converter when your speed drops to the set point so you don't shudder and yank the rods out.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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egon
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Re: Hauling horses around
[re: Pat]
08/05/05 10:53 PM
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Pat:
The double cluthing is for for downshifting so the gears wil mesh.
Going up the range dose not require double cluthchin.
Egon 
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Pat
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Re: Hauling horses around
[re: egon]
08/06/05 06:38 PM
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Yes Egon, I know, I have done plenty of double clutching and I know exactly what it does and why. Some of my earlier pickups had synchro-smash in 2nd gear and above but compound low (AKA granny) NON SYNCHRO for first gear. If you wanted to shift into low while moving you needed to adroitly double clutch to avoid "grinding a pound."
As regards driving in all forward speeds from a dead stop to win the bet, I down shifted to lower gears back a ways from an intersection so the way would clear before I arrived and I avoided having to stop.
For the uninitiated among us, double clutching is shifting to neutral, letting the clutch up to spin up the tranny gears, then depressing the clutch again and completing the shift to the next gear. It is a skill mastered by successfull drivers in "THE OLD DAYS" and is becomintg a lost art due to automagic transmissions.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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Bird
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Re: Hauling horses around
[re: Pat]
08/06/05 07:13 PM
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Pat, do you remember when the first cars had a synchromesh first gear? My 1964 Dodge Dart did not have it yet, although our 1963 Ford police sedans did. Ford Motor Company used the Dallas Police Department for tests in the '60s. I heard (no proof) that Ford developed the synchromesh first because the Dallas Police tore up so many of the others. We had some interesting tests being done by Ford after I joined the department. While the '63 and '64 Ford sedans were all black and supposedly equipped the same, they had steering wheels of different colors; black, blue, red, and white. When officers got out of the car, it was quite common for the cocking thumb on their revolver to hit the steering wheel, so they got scarred up pretty quickly. The different colors supposedly were different rubber/plastic compounds for Ford to see which held up best. Some cars had different colored distributor caps, or a top radiator tank painted a different color, etc. We got some Chevrolet police cars in 1966 and I think that was the first year for their manual transmissions to have a synchromesh first gear.
And like you, I've done some shifting without using the clutch. The first half of the school year that I drove a school bus, my bus was a 1952 International (oldest bus in the fleet), and it was pretty easy to run through the gears without clutching. The second half of the year, I had the 1959 International (newest bus in the fleet). And it wasn't difficult to do on my '37 Plymouth either.
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Pat
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Re: Hauling horses around
[re: Bird]
08/07/05 10:10 AM
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Bird, Great stuff! No disrespect but... If the police can't tear it up in their daily use it is pretty robust stuff. Smart move on the part of the maker to use cops as guinea pigs (as close to a pun as I dare get)
So you are coasting down to a low speed in second gear, way below where the engine develps good HP and torque, anticipating a stop... B U T... you need to punch it and take off code 3 after some miscreant. You can grind a pound off the gear teeth trying to JAM it in first gear (non synchro low) or if skilled like Bird, throw a quick adroit double clutch and catch low and peel out.
The bet I won for driving the distance without ever touching the clutch, included starting the engine from a dead stop and stoping at the other end. A lightly loaded (empty) pickup Ford F-100 with 6 cyl and 3 speed on the column will start right up in low gear without using the clutch. Stoping was braking to the edge of lugging the engine in low and killing the ignition and stabing the brakes to end its agony.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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Bird
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Re: Hauling horses around
[re: Pat]
08/07/05 12:03 PM
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In reply to:
A lightly loaded (empty) pickup Ford F-100 with 6 cyl and 3 speed on the column will start right up in low gear without using the clutch.
As would lots of the cars with the 3 speed on the column. And, unfortunately, you're right; if the police can't tear it up, nobody can. 
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