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jimbrown
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Reged: 08/06/04
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Loc: Tombstone, AZ
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Snake Bit Dog
04/11/05 02:29 PM
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Well it is snake season here in Arizona and of course my silly dog sticks his nose right on the first Diamond Back that he sees. POW right on the nose. I put the dog in the truck and haul him off to the vet. Vet says only safe thing to do is anti venom but it is pricey. Ok I say stick him. Well about five syringes and a quart of IV flluid later he says ok take him home. And oh by the way that anti venom was $432. Gulp.
Dog (standard poodle) nose swells up like a bull dog and looks half dead by dark. Well next morning he is up and jumping and the swelling is gone appears to no worse for ware. Never know.
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gadgetman
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Reged: 03/30/03
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Loc: Richland, Georgia
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Re: Snake Bit Dog
[re: jimbrown]
04/11/05 05:14 PM
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When my dog received his bite from a rattlesnake (on the bridge of the nose of course) we called the vet. She said to wash it with alcohol and watch it for 15 minutes. If it started to swell real big to get him in as soon as possible. If nothing more than a knot then he would probably be OK. She said most snakes save their venom for stuff they can eat and don't waste it on big animals, just give a warning shot (so to speak). It can make them sick but usually not fatal. Ours appeared OK 15 minutes later and was fine the next day.
Maybe we should buy stock in that anti-venom stuff.......
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Fred
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Loc: NW PA
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That's very interesting, I'd never heard this before. Wonder if they play the waiting game with snake bit humans?
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mfaley
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We see our share of rattlers and our dogs, especially the dumb one who still can’t tell the difference between a rattle snake and a lizard, runs into more than his share. When he does get bit, about 2-3 times a year, we just pump him full of antihistamine, half an aspirin and watch him closely for half a day. For a while we went the vet treatment route but after talking with a number of vets the consensus was that it’s the most expensive possible route and one that does not tend to make a difference to most dogs that are a medium size or larger.
It’s my understanding that most adult rattlers don’t envenomate with every bite but, as was said, only do so when they are hunting or very threatened. It’s also my understanding that young rattles usually shoot a full load of venom with every bite so they are often more dangerous than a full grown snake.
So far we have had no problem with the dumb dog by using the less expensive route. It’s been 2 years and probably 5 bites so far so this way seems to be working.
Now if we could just get him to tell the difference between a possum and a skunk…….
   
Mark
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Hank
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Loc: near Wickenburg AZ
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Re: Snake Bit Dog
[re: jimbrown]
04/13/05 02:13 PM
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Funny this came up now. This morning's news (KPHO from Phoenix) mentioned a new rattlesnake vaccine for dogs.
I just stopped by to talk to our vet about it. He said it has been in use in California for a couple of years. He said it primarily protects the animal against the longer term effects of a bite. And that the short term effects still need to be observed closely, and treated, or not, as mentioned in this thread.
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Hank
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Loc: near Wickenburg AZ
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Re: Snake Bit Dog
[re: mfaley]
04/13/05 02:22 PM
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It’s my understanding that most adult rattlers don’t envenomate with every bite but, as was said, only do so when they are hunting or very threatened. It’s also my understanding that young rattles usually shoot a full load of venom with every bite so they are often more dangerous than a full grown snake.
That's my understanding, too, from talking with vets and many long-time AZ residents, plus reading online.
The venom is very valuable to the rattler, because it ensures a food supply. Adults can detect the size of what they're striking (given the chance), and adjust the delivery of venom accordingly. And, if it is too big for them to eat, they tend not to deliver venom at all, or very little. That ensures they have venom left to acquire dinner.
The baby rattler is not so good at this economy of venom, and delivers the full sac with every strike. And since their venom is fully potent, they can do more damage to a human/dog than an adult.
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jimbrown
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Loc: Tombstone, AZ
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Re: Snake Bit Dog
[re: Hank]
04/13/05 06:07 PM
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My vet said he had just gotten the vaccine in that very day. Of course no good for an already bit dog. I figure the bite and anti venom are about as good as the vaccine so all he is going to get next time is the IV and antibiotics.
I am not sure about the controlled bite theory. We had two horses die last year at the stable from snake bite. We had a cat get bit last year right betweent the eys It got the IV and antibiotics and lived. Looked kinda funny for a few days.
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Hank
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Re: Snake Bit Dog
[re: jimbrown]
04/14/05 09:00 AM
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I am not sure about the controlled bite theory
The caveat is "given the chance" the adult rattler will control the bite. Surprise one and you're likely to get the full sac.
We have a lot of Mohaves up here. They tend to react to you at a much greater distance, which is good, in a sense, because they get a chance to "size you up". But, they also tend to be much more aggressive. And, their venom is worse.
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mfaley
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Re: Snake Bit Dog
[re: jimbrown]
04/14/05 01:48 PM
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"We had two horses die last year at the stable from snake bite. "
What caused the deaths? Restricted air flow?
My experience, and I am no vet, is that generally when a horse gets bit it’s usually on the nose which can suffocate them when their nose swells shut. One of our local general vets said that you can stop this by shoving a large tube through their nose so they can breath.
I would also think that a large healthy horse would be pretty resistant to a snake bite unless it got a full dose into the blood stream.
I am no expert but there is not a lot below a horse’s knee that is soft tissue and I don’t think a rattler is going to get any higher than their knee. Where the horses either young or old?
Mark
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jimbrown
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Loc: Tombstone, AZ
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Re: Snake Bit Dog
[re: mfaley]
04/14/05 02:22 PM
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I think they were both bit in the nose or head and were out in a pature at the time so they may have well died of sufocation. They were not mine so I really do not know. they both belonged to the riding stable.
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mfaley
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Re: Snake Bit Dog
[re: jimbrown]
04/14/05 03:31 PM
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Either way it's too bad.
We try to keep a distance around the barn area where there are no plants or tall grasses. This helps us see but also exposes the rodents to the owls who, hopefully, keep the population down thus keeping the snakes away since there is no food source. So far that seems to be working.
Mark
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Hank
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Loc: near Wickenburg AZ
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Re: Snake Bit Dog
[re: mfaley]
04/14/05 07:10 PM
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to the owls who
Who, who, who We have a who't owl who perches on our roof every night. Wonderful to hear. And it's wonderful the rodents it takes away.
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Hank
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Re: Snake Bit Dog
[re: mfaley]
04/15/05 08:43 AM
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We try to keep a distance around the barn area where there are no plants or tall grasses
We did the same for the acre we have fenced in for our sighthounds. Cleared out all of the creosote bushes, and (this year) tall weeds. The rodents love to burrow under the bushes, and by keeping them down in the dog area, we hope to keep the snakes down as well.
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Pat
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Re: Snake Bit Dog
[re: Hank]
04/29/05 09:43 PM
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Hank, Do you have a snake fence? They seem to be popular in new construction in Wickenberg. Also there is snake repellent that comes in gallon bottles. It is dry not a liquid and is supposed to keep ratlers out.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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Hank
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Re: Snake Bit Dog
[re: Pat]
04/30/05 08:33 AM
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I have only a chain link fence for our doggies. It is scratched into the soil a couple of inches, but it is not a snake fence, as they can get through the chain link just fine. It serves to keep out the coyotes, but a true "coyote-proof" fence goes a couple of feet underground and turns a 90° angle out.
My strategy has been to limit the snakes' food supply where the dogs are; this means wiping out the creosote bushes, which attract rodent burrows. The dogs themselves (sighthounds) strive to keep their yard rodent and lizard free.
Also, every "snake repellant" I've seen has been primarily napthalene, which, as you know, is moth balls, and moth balls are much cheaper than any dedicated "snake repellant". I've scattered the moth balls far and wide, until last summer when I found a Mohave rattler snoozing right in the middle of a pile of them.
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Pat
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Re: Snake Bit Dog
[re: Hank]
05/01/05 09:37 AM
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Hank, I think a coule feet deep burried fence is excessive for even the coyote (or Wiley Coyote). Once underground you do have to go a fair distance horizontal outward with the fence or other barrier but not at so great a depth. Wiley, yes, but not rocket surgeons. The critters never seem to figure out that they could dig under if they only backed off a fair distance to start but it is in the opposite direction of their goal and seems to require more intellect than possessed. Easier by far to install too.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
Edited by Pat (05/01/05 09:46 AM)
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richardlu
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Re: Snake Bit Dog
[re: Pat]
10/05/05 08:54 AM
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A rattler bit one of our small dogs Sunday about two in the after noon, within fifteen minutes he had passed out. We ran in an called the vet and arranged to meet him at four. Meanwhile the dog came back around an was in terrible pain. He hollered constantly. The vet gave him several shots and said while he thought the dog would make it he couldn't be sure. He didn't have any antivenum as he said it was very expensive to keep an it didn't always work. So we took him home an he hollered until he finally died about two that night. He never did swell even where he was bitten. We are just sick over it, we can't get it off our minds.
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mfaley
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Richardlu,
I am sorry to hear of your loss.
I have heard that, depending on where the dog was bit, how much venom was released, and how quickly the venom spread, your dog might not have had much chance.
My heart goes out to you…….
Regards,
Mark
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lliefveld
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Re: Snake Bit Dog
[re: mfaley]
11/01/05 02:56 PM
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Here in California, there is a trainer who does Rattlesnake Avoidance training. We put our dog through it, and it was absolutely amazing. It took less than 10 minutes. Back home, we had a snake we had shot that morning, and we put it down on the road to see what our dog would do (we still didn't believe this really worked), and our dog immediately avoided it. I strongly recommend this for anyone that lives in rattlesnake country. Here's his website. There may be something in your area, too. I just googled for "rattlesnake avoidance"
http://www.patrickcallaghan.com/
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Fred
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That's amazing. I would have thought that a dog's prey drive would be too strong for this type avoidance training, but it only says snakes...
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