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Metrologist
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Loc: MO
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New puppy
03/06/03 08:32 PM
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Hi All.
This is my first post here, I've been reading for a couple of weeks now.
We (my family) are planning on getting a new puppy this summer, a black lab. I have never owned a pet before so I am a little nervous about the whole thing. My wife grew up in a family with pets, so I am depending on her. We have two kids, a 5 year old and a 3 year old. We are planning on letting the puppy live in the house with us. I think I must be crazy.
What I would like to know is: What am I getting myself into? I would like any stories anybody might have about pups and dogs. I don't have any idea of what needs to be ourchased for the pup, I know a crate and food and water bowls. Also need chew toys? Don't want the house tore up.
That's another point, my house is three years old, built a lot of it myself. We planned on keeping the puppy in the finished basement, but I don't know if we can train it to stay down there. We have an open stairwell to the basement, no doors to close to keep it down there. But I also don't want to just leave it alone, I know it needs interaction. Maybe letting it into the kitchen might work. I just don't want it sleeping in my bed.
We chose a black lab because we heard it was good with kids and didn't shed as much hair as other breeds. But it will grow to be a BIG house dog I would imagine.
This is getting long, so I'll stop for now. I know I will be back with more questions.
Thanks,
Tom
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hazmat
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Tom,
Welcome to CBN! I have two labs 7 years (yellow) and 1 year old (black). First off don't be fooled, they shed alot, although probably less than a golden. I've found that the black hair is much more noticeable than the yellows.
Second, hit your local library and pick up a couple "how to train your dog" books. They will do a more complete job than I can letting you know what you are in for. There are a few different training methodologies, ie reward based, punishment based, or reward & punishment based (I use a "blended" approach). If you flip thru the books, you can ask more specific questions and there is a lot of experience here to answer them. One thing I highly recommend is an obedience class to get the pup properly socialized. Also get the dog from a reputable breeder (ask your vet, and friends for references). There is significant research that the puppies need human contact at x week etc. in order for them to grow up fitting into human society. A good breeder knows & does this. Don't be surprised if you have to wait several months or more to get the dog.
If you are concerned about chewing, you need to isolate the dog from the house. This means crating him when you aren't there. When we are home we use baby gates to keep him within our sight. he is just now getting "whole house" privelages. When they are little puppies they can't hold it all day while you are at work. I built a pen in the basement for our little guy and spread newspapers for him. This was a temp solution until my wife (a teacher) got out for summer vacation.
At 1 year old, the pup is still crated while we are at work & during the night. The older dog is free to roam the house (or yard) depending on the weather. We'd leave the pup in the yard (with shelter of course) during the day, but he is still chewing a bit, including the deck & clapboards on the house 
Don't know if your wife is at home or not. If not, the experts recommend scheduling a week vacation so that you can be around the pup when he arrives at your home.
Labs are great with kids, but puppies have to be taught how to behave within the "pack". Don't leave the pup unsupervised with the kids, untill he learns his manners (ie no mouthing the kids, rough horseplay etc.) I wouldn't leave my 1 year old unanttended with small children -- he is 75 pounds of pure energy!. The 7 year old is waaay more sedate.
I would advise letting your dog have run of the house as he gets housebroken and learns the "rules". The rules are whatever you make them. Ie, you are not allowed on the couch, bed, whatever. You can't go into that room (I'd gate it). My experience is that the dog & you are happier if hes around when you are home. One thing that helps make the pup easier to live with is proper exercise. A sporting dog such as a lab, needs a couple solid romps a day to expend his energy. We take ours for a 20 minute walk in the morning and "play time" - usually fetch in the evening. If the weather is bad & we cut short the exercise, the boys are much rowdier in the house.
Hope this answered some questions. keep them coming.
Here's a pic
PS read thru the threads in this forum, lots more info
Hazmat
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Boondox
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Tom, we have taken dogs into our home that were put into the basement, and had to put them down because they were so messed up mentally they could never be normal dogs. Your note raises all sorts of red flags, because a badly socialized puppy turns into a very large badly socialized dog. A dog that has not bonded to you or your kids (why should he, he was never allowed in the house) so one day, your kid has a cracker and is waving it around. The dog wants the cracker. Rather than respecting the kid because he loves the kid, he snatches for the cracker. With jaws that can unintentionally do a lot of damage.
Then there is that 3 year old. A puppy is NOT fun for a 3 year old. What is fun for the moment, playing with a puppy at someone else's house, is NOT fun when you are 3, 4, or 5, and have to live with this bouncing bundle of teeth and muscle that knocks you down. Get down to the three year old's level and look at the world from knee high. Now imagine a puppy that weighs as much as you do, bounding off your chest. Taking your toys and chewing them. Knocking you over in the rush to play.
From a puppy point of view, your three year old is not fun either. Kids that age can hurt, unintentionally, but nevertheless, and after the child hurts the puppy, it is the puppy who gets in trouble, not the kid. Kids that age fall easily, they are clumsy. Even if they do not intend to hurt the puppy as part of exploring their world a small child can pinch, poke, or punch a puppy. There is nothing particularly vicious about it, the kids are just learning what is and is not Ok, but the puppy still gets hurt. If you're very lucky, the puppy will retreat and learn to avoid the children. You might not be lucky; we see a lot of dogs turned in because they bit a child that did not respect their boundaries.
Do you really have the time to take the puppy out into the world and properly socialize it? Does your car have room for you, the kids, the wife, and the dog, so you can all go to Home Depot for a puppy social; Do you have the time to work with the dog, day in and day out, for the next couple of years while it matures or might that time be better spent with your kids. Or finishing your house?
Someone else on the list is going to say oh, BS, my kids loved their puppy, and maybe they did. But you're not coming at this from any sort of comfortable point. This is totally new to you, and the temptation, if your kids start to hate the puppy, is going to be to put the puppy in the crate and leave it there. Which is going to have consequences.
Lastly, if you roll into the home of a good breeder, with good genetics and a good breeding program, the sort of breeder who wants to interview you and your family before letting you have one of her puppies you'll probably be advised to wait a couple of years until the children are old enough to really enjoy the puppy. Puppyhood lasts an incredibly short period of time, but what a puppy learns during that year, to year and a half, will have lifetime consequences. Childhood also doesn't last that long. A short wait, until the kids are physically bigger, and mentally older, will make a world of difference in how much they enjoy this puppy.
There is a great article on raising a puppy Puppy article
Tamara (Mrs Boondox) (Ragtag Golden Retriever Rescue)
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LazyJ_Arabians
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Re: New puppy
[re: Boondox]
03/07/03 10:57 AM
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Good stuff Pete! I'll echo the point about breeding. A dog is an umpteen year commitment, get the best you can possibly put your hands on. Difficult to comment on the issue with your young kids without knowing more about your experience with dogs and your time available to nurture them. I will say my dogs played almost as important a role in raising my kids as I did.
I've had 3 labs, my 80yo mother has a lab, my sister has a lab, 13 of my 14 cousins have at least 1 lab. All house dogs. I've had other breeds, outside dogs, but I'll always have a lab laying on my hearth rug. I feel that's the way they're wired, to be an integral part of the family.
Buck (yellow) 1976-1988 Beautiful, muscular, actually used for retrieving. My companion through my single adult years. and a chick magnet. Overheated on a dove hunt doing the one thing I couldn't stop him from doing, going all out.
Truck (black) 1985-1993 Almost ugly but very loving, bonded very closely with my young kids and was violently protective of them, met untimely demise due to poor breeding disposing him to hip dysplasia
Bozo (brown) 1990- Champion blood, gorgeous, extremely intelligent and talks like scoobydoo, has no clue that he is a dog. Lost his mother during birth and my then 5yo daughter bottle fed him from day 1, she is still quite verbally his "momma"
Be prepared to love a Lab as your own flesh and blood and they will reward you tenfold.
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tdenny
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Metrologist,
I will makes some comments on your post because we are in very similar situations except for my wife doesn't know anything about puppies either.
We got a puppy against some recommendations and now I know why we were told we should get a rescue dog instead of a puppy. Puppies are a ton of work and can be a little trouble with small children. Not because they don't like the kids but....
I have 3 kids ages 1, 5, and 8. The puppy (now 10 months old) comes in the house but usually only when the two younger kids are in bed and I use baby gates to limit her access to rooms I am in. Boondox is an expert and clearly correct when he mentions how tough they can be on kids. I have a Rhodesian Ridgeback (about lab sized). She loves the kids but even when she's not trying she could easily knock them over or worse.
My dog sleeps in the basement and is kept there during the day while we are at work. My basement is not finished yet although I'm currently in construction mode. My house is also less than 3 years old and I was very concerned about puppy demolition of it. The best advice I can offer here is as Hazmat said, you need to keep an eye on the dog at all times. They are puppies and love to chew anything they can get ahold of. Labs are also known diggers so if you are really fond of your plants, your wife's flowers, and other outdoor items beware.
I've spent a ton of time with the dog (alot more than I ever realized would be required). I can't imagine not having her around but there is always cleanup, training, etc...I'm looking forward to the days when she can be inside all the time with the entire family but we just aren't quite there yet. Best of luck 
TD
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Boondox
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Let me elaborate a bit on the need to find a good breeder, not just some fool who breeds them as a cash crop (and many if not most pet shops get them from the latter sort).
Raised properly, a dog will become part of your soul. But without sound breeding, the elder years come early and painfully. Molson, my Alpha male, and devoted companion, was a product of a poor breeding program. This magnificent dog, faithful hunting partner, fierce protector of my family, and the dog who saved my life by pulling me out of an icy well when I fell in head first a few years ago, is going blind and deaf now. His hips bother him so much I spend part of each night massaging him. He's only ten. Far too early to say goodbye. It tears me apart inside watching his decline.
Tetley, my 108# lap dog, my gentlest dog, was also a product of a profit-based breeding program. At five, his hips are so bad we'll have to give him bionic hips in the next couple of years. The surgery will cost nearly $6k. But he's my child, and I won't hesitate to write the check.
Glenfiddich at 8 came from a top breeder. He has never been sick a day in his life and can still leap far into the air after a tennis ball. Tuppence, my $1200 wonder pup and daughter-dog, also came from a top breeder. Expensive? Heck yeah! But both of these two will be healthy and physically active till the day they die. Knowing they won't suffer like Tetley and Molson is worth a small fortune to me!
Do your research. Ask questions. Get references. Visit my Website to see what makes a decent breeder...and why they can be so darned picky about where their pups go.
And remember that it might have fur, but a pup is just another form of child. Raise it with as much love and kindness as you show your human children.
Pete
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Handyman
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Hello and welcome...
I've only been here a few months and these are a bunch of great guys here and very informative, but like anything or anyone else they forget to mention the obvious about certian breads because they learned to expect certain traits or personalities.
Labs are beautiful dogs, but they are also a outdoor dog. They need to run. They are a sporting dog and like most working dog, they will become distructive and annoying if they are bored.
You might get lucky and get a mellow dog or you might have the displeasure of a hyper dog.
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Metrologist
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Loc: MO
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All:
Thanks for the welcome. I know I am in for a lot with the new puppy. My wife is a teacher and has summer off, that's our reasoning on getting the pup the first of June. She will have time to work with it. A couple of other things, our basement is finished. It is where we spend a lot of time during the day. Not as much as upstairs where the kitchen is. That's my thinking for letting it in the kitchen. We have a laminate floor there, so messes should clean up easily.
As for outside, that was my vote for the dogs home. But I also like the idea of hanging out with my pal in the evening by the fire. We have 5 acres of timber for the dog to run when it's ready. We also live on a cul-de-sac with little traffic of any kind. We already walk the road in the summer for exercise. Just have to get used to walking in bad weather also.
On using a good breeder, we are looking now for the right one. We have a couple of contacts, and will be talking with them. I live in MO, the puppy mill capital of the country so I know to stay away from the "factory farms".
Thanks for the help so far, I hope to learn a lot more from you all. I won't let this puppy experience turn into the two kitten saga of Moseys' 
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tenebrous
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Hi Tom,
You are about to make a big decision. The selection of the breed is very important and should not be made without learning as much as possible about each breed.
My father raised and trained dogs. I have spent over fifty years showing, training and just plain living with many breeds. My family has also been involved in the rescue of dogs whose owners did not understand to what they were committing.
First of all Labs are great dogs that shed. Shot hair does not mean that a dog does not shed. There are several breeds of various sizes that really do not shed their coat but lose hair like us humans. We have two Giant Schnauzers in our family and at a hundred pounds each, these are big dogs that do not shed. I lose more hair in the shower each day than they do in a week. However I could never recommend a Giant to you as they are wonderful dogs but can be very difficult spelled STUBBORN.
On the other end of the size scale are the Yorkies, Silky Terriers, Poodles, Westies, Mini Schnauzers and many other non shedding small breeds. Some in the middle would be Bennington Terriers, Irish Terriers,Standard Schnauzers, Standard Poodles and again several more medium breeds. There are several sites that are full of information on the various breeds. Start at the American Kennel Club site and do your research.
After you have selected a few breeds start looking for a breeder in your area. Please don’t buy from a pet store or a puppy mill, you may well regret it. Find a breeder that shows their dogs and who carefully breeds to improve the quality instead of just turning out puppies. I always recommend buying from the best available breeder even if you have no plains to show your dog. Every high profile breeder sells puppies that are not show quality but are wonderful dogs. They will not win in the conformation ring but that is just a beauty contest. What you get in a pet quality puppy is almost as pretty but the same quality breeding for temperament and health.
OK, Tom reality time is here. My wife and I are still working on our new home and the dogs have put the first scratches in the bamboo flooring. As I said Giants are big dogs. One sleeps on his bed next to my side of our bed and the princess sleeps on the foot of our bed. That is us now about you. Please include your dog in your family. Right now my wife, Jane, is watching TV and has two Giants at her feet. Our dogs are not allowed in the living room or the guest bedroom. That is not a problem because Jane does not allow me in the living room either. To restrict a dog from being part of the usual family activities is to say that you do not want a dog. These creatures need to be loved and played with in order to be part of the family. IMHO a dog is just another member of the family but they will never ask for the keys to the car.
Lastly, training, training and more training make for great kids and dogs. Start early and get professional help. Many of the pet chains offer inexpensive classes and most are very competent.
Tom, you are about to find that a dog will steal your heart and all you have to do is pick the right one. Good luck, you are about to start a quest that should, if done correctly, give your family a loyal companion.
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I also had two wonderful labs, now deceased, who were absolutely a part of the family. Since my wife and I don't have children the labs became OUR children. We would dress them up for the holidays, Christmas, Easter bunnies, Thanksgiving pilgrims, etc. They brought so much joy to our lives. Boy do we miss them. It's been several years now that they are gone but the pain still runs very deep. As far as shedding goes, as previously mentioned DEAR GOD DO THEY SHED!, yet we learned to vacuum the house every day.
A pain, but well worth it. A special thank you to other members who posted here, very nice comments on the care and love given to their pets.
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Boondox
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Here's my little Tuppence catching some z's.
Pete
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Alan_L_Texas
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My daughter has a black lab male. One of the smartest dogs I have ever seen, and with help from a professional trainer he follows rules very well. He will stay in "his area" until my son-in-law tells him its OK to go elsewhere. He stays close by when we are romping around on our land. A very good dog.
However, the amount of energy in this dog is unbelievable!! He wants to run, and run some more. You can throw a stick or toy in the tank (pond) over and over and the dog will continue to retrieve it and beg for more and more exercise. He will flat wear you out.
Alan L. - Texas
North of Mustang
South of Bugtussle
On the Banks of Buck Creek
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Alan_L_Texas
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The only breed I know much about is cocker spaniel. We've had several, and have one now. Great dogs, they love exercise, some (the one we have now) love the water and going swimming and retrieving in the water, and they love to run, and go walking in the woods. But they aren't near as hyper as labs, and enjoy being lazy (labs have their moments too).
We have a 6 year old that we got from a well respected breeder who shows her dogs. However he had 3 herniated disks and had to have back surgery back in December. He is fine now, but I guess you can never be sure.
I think many cross breeds that you might get at the animal shelter can be very healthy, as they don't have the inbreeding problems some pure bred dogs can have. We've had our share of those too, and they never had any health problems at young ages.
Also, although they have long hair and have to be groomed, our cockers have never shed much at all.
A little more laid back than labs, they are very affectionate dogs.
Alan L. - Texas
North of Mustang
South of Bugtussle
On the Banks of Buck Creek
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Boondox
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Alan -- You're right about labs. What an incredibly muscular, driven dog! My goldens do well in field trials, but they finesse their way around obstacles and when they leap into the water they only make it about 8' from shore. The labs just run thru obstacles, and their water entries are easily twice the distance of our goldens! As for the shedding, give me a golden any day! Our vacuum has no problem with the long fur, but the short thick fur of the lab stays on the carpet. 
Cockers are nice dogs, but they have a little trouble with four feet of snow. 
Pete
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flatius
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have lotsa of patience and it will pay off in having a great dogs.
labs are fantastic.....we just got out 2nd one.
8 weeks old. "gracie". a real "biter/nipper" now.
i wear the "battle scars" on my hands,arm,legs!!!
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rabbitrae90
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I have a yellow lab and it sleeps in our basment with the door open and he's fine. You just need to teach him to stay down there.
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Boondox
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Re: New puppy
[re: flatius]
06/26/03 05:22 AM
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Yeah, those puppy teeth can really hurt! Here's a lesson we learned from watching our dogs interact. Yelp. That's right. When the pup bites or nips, just yelp in pain and refuse to play for a few minutes while you "nurse the wound." Most pups quickly learn that they are causing pain and that if they want to continue playing there are limits to the mouth thing.
Pete
Ragtag Golden Retriever Rescue
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Metrologist
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Re: New puppy
[re: flatius]
06/26/03 08:56 PM
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I see this thread is back up top again so I thought I would give an update. After reading the responses here, my wife and I decided to see about an older Lab. We checked around, but found none right for us. In searching, we came across a breeder that had a female that was bred for the first time. The puppies were born at just the right time for us. The new mom had five in the litter, one boy didn't make it. Of the other four, three were females and one male. The breeder kept the male for show purposes. When we looked at them to choose, one female had already been spoken for. We had two to choose from. One just looked right, so that was it. Oh, it is a yellow lab, we changed from wanting a black lab to yellow during our researching. We are happy with her. Her name is Goldi. Goldilocks is what the kids came up with. She is AKC registered, and comes from a long line of champion labs on both sides.
Now to living with her. We brought her home the second Monday in June, so everything about her is still a learning experience. My wife is reading about four different books now about obedience and housetraining. Goldi has a crate in the kitchen where she sleeps. She is doing well housetrainig, where we allow her out of the crate when we are in the kitchen and she has done her business outside. We are learning her sounds and temperament when she signals she needs to go potty. The kitchen is gated at one end, but the other doorway is not. She is learning to stay in the kitchen pretty well, unless a toy is left outside the doorway in view. Am training the kids to keep their toys picked up. Goldi's crate in the kitchen is positioned next to the stairrailing and the living room, so she can see us there in the evening reading the kids' books to them. We also have a 10 x 10 kennel outside for her when we are gone longer than an hour. Shorter trips away, she stays in her crate. She has no problem going into and staying in her crate. As she gets housetrained, she will have greater access to the rest of the house. We are learning a lot about her, she seems really lazy right now. She will not walk very far, just drops down on the ground. She also sleeps alot, I figure that's just a growing puppy.
Well, this is a long post. Will stop for now. All in all, very happy with our decision right now.
Tom
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Metrologist
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Try to attach a picture of Goldi.
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