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RichZ
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Replacing wooden bridge
12/18/02 08:25 AM
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One of the driveways on our property has a wooden bridge going over a creek. The deck is composed of three inch thick hemlock planks. Some of the planks are rotting, and it's time to replace them, but we don't want to have to do this every few years. We'd like to replace the wood with metal. My wife has checked out diamond plate, which is do-able but expensive. Does anyone have any other ideas? The bridge is roughly 18 feet long by 18 feet wide.
Thanks!!
Rich
"What a long strange trip it's been."
Edited by RichZ (12/18/02 08:26 AM)
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s1120
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Re: Replacing wooden bridge
[re: RichZ]
12/18/02 08:54 AM
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I would not go diamond plate. It would be a little slick, and VARY heavy to move. When was the last time you replaced the planks? I would think some thick hardwood would last a good long time. I know there are a few small saw mills around. I would think some nice thick oak would last a long time with some sealer. Plus wood is just nicer to work with, and just feels better under foot.
Paul Bradway
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beenthere
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Re: Replacing wooden bridge
[re: RichZ]
12/18/02 09:47 AM
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What is the construction under the 3" hemlock? Do you think the steel will last longer than wood?
Wood will warp some when first laid down, so keeping it loose so the planks can be turned periodically would, I think, be best. White oak would be a good choice. I suspect hemlock was used because it was cheapest and maybe didn't warp as much. The support for the wood deck is important to the amount of warp that will occur in the wood plank. Spray treatments of water repellant preservatives will prolong the life of the wood planks, especially if white oak is not used. But, as stated already, wood will be a better choice than steel (IMO).
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RichZ
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Re: Replacing wooden bridge
[re: s1120]
12/18/02 09:57 AM
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The bridge was there when we moved in 2 years ago, but I don't think the planks are more than 3 or 4 years old, maybe less. They rot quickly, because of all the moisture from the creek. All the research I've done does tell me that hemlock is best because it doesn't warp, is strong and more resistant to rot than many other woods. I just wnat to replace it once and never have to worry about it again, at least in my lifetime!
Rich
"What a long strange trip it's been."
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s1120
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Re: Replacing wooden bridge
[re: RichZ]
12/18/02 10:08 AM
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I just wnat to replace it once and never have to worry about it again, at least in my lifetime!
Well, sorry to tell you, but thats not going to happen.  Unless you pour concrete.
I have never worked with hemlock before, but I know white oak[white, not red oak] will last a LONG time wet. They have been using it for hundreds of years in wood boat keals.
Paul Bradway
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RichZ
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Re: Replacing wooden bridge
[re: beenthere]
12/18/02 10:40 AM
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Under the wood, the bridge is constructed of stone and cement pilings with crossbars made of old steel railroad tracks.(Our main road was once a railroad bed.) I would think that the steel would last much longer than the wood. Am I wrong?
Rich
"What a long strange trip it's been."
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RichZ
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Re: Replacing wooden bridge
[re: s1120]
12/18/02 10:43 AM
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Paul, are you telling me steel won't last any longer than wood??  How can that be???
Rich
"What a long strange trip it's been."
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s1120
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Re: Replacing wooden bridge
[re: RichZ]
12/18/02 10:55 AM
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Rust. To get steel that is going to suport weight, and last with years of rusting, it would have to be so thick, that the price, and the pain of working with it would be so great, that replacing a few boards every ten years or so would be a lot easyier. Plus, steel can get real slick. I would be afread to drive over it in snow, or the wet. Plus, wood just looks nicer. BTW, what goes over it? Cars, tractors? Also, how wide is the spacing, of the steel under it? They have that plastic decking on the market. I don't know how thick it would have to be, to suport cars, but its a thought.
Paul Bradway
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s1120
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Re: Replacing wooden bridge
[re: RichZ]
12/18/02 11:01 AM
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Also, just a little info. When they build a steel ship they can plan for how long it will be safe to use by knowing how thick the hull plates are, and how much will rust away yearly.
Just some usless info.
Paul Bradway
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RichZ
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Re: Replacing wooden bridge
[re: s1120]
12/18/02 11:06 AM
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The bridge is the main drive to our house. Our pickup and van go over it, as well as any cars and trucks of visitors. And of course our tractors go over it!!! That's the problem, I damaged one of the patches I've put on it, while removing snow with my backblade. The wood looks great, makes a great sound, but is a pain!! I've got enough farm work, meding fences and other work to keep me busy, without having to worry about this bridge.
I never heard of the plastic decking, that sounds interesting! Do you (or anyone else!) know anything about that?
Rich
"What a long strange trip it's been."
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s1120
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Re: Replacing wooden bridge
[re: RichZ]
12/18/02 11:40 AM
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web page
try this.....
Paul Bradway
Edited by s1120 (12/18/02 11:42 AM)
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JohnMiller3
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Re: Replacing wooden bridge
[re: RichZ]
12/18/02 12:41 PM
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Thats what Richie gets for buying a castle/farm beyond the moat... 
I'd stick with the wood... there has to be multiple sawmills up in your neck of the woods... besides "rough" white oak is somewhat cheap considering...
My buddy uses a sawmill in Albany County (oak) for refurbing/renewing trailer flatbeds...
(Stempel Saw Mill 872-0431, Berne) ... to get an idea of local pricing
Good luck Richie!
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RichZ
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Thanks, John. We have many local sawmills, and I ordered wood for the bridge from our closest onea few months ago, but he never got the shipment of hemlock. In the spring, I'll re-order the wood, and replace it. The former owners put all the boards butting up against each other, and I think if I space them, they may last a little longer, because they should have a better chance of drying out.
I just thought some kind of steel deck would last almost forever, but you and Paul don't seem to think so. Since you two guys are my buddies, I guess I'll have to believe you!
Rich
"What a long strange trip it's been."
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beenthere
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Re: Replacing wooden bridge
[re: RichZ]
12/18/02 12:49 PM
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In reply to:
""All the research I've done does tell me that hemlock is best because it doesn't warp, is strong and more resistant to rot than many other woods. I just wnat to replace it once and never have to worry about it again, at least in my lifetime! ""
According to the bible on wood, The Wood Handbook, hemlock is in the lowest class for being resistant to decay(rot). It ranks right in there with the firs, most pines, and spruce. Its warp characteristics are probably the only plus it has going for it. I would be willing to bet that white oak planking will be the best. The plastic decking will not likely be thick enough (it is now made in 5/4 for decks) to get the strength and stiffness you will be looking for. The steel will be very heavy, and if it was a good choice, there would be a lot of bridges with steel decking. There are some real good wood bridge plans around, as wood competes very well with concrete and steel. However, tradition and civil engineers, don't want to lose out to wood bridges. Even so, they are probably still out of the reach of what you want to invest in your bridge. (I will post a reference to recent wood bridge research and applications if I can find it)
You really should check into steel, just to be able to compare the cost to wood. Probably should get the cost of white oak as well as hemlock too. Then you will be able to make that decision as to which to go for. I would place bets on white oak as the best way to go. Its weight to strength ratio and decay resistance will be hard to beat, and will probably last for 15 to 20 years.
Now, if you put a cover over the bridge you will not have to plow snow off, and you will add additional protection to the bridge planking. Covered bridges are a real pride and joy for some, and serve a purpose.
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MikePA
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Re: Replacing wooden bridge
[re: RichZ]
12/18/02 12:53 PM
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As an alternative to diamond plate, what about steel grating?
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RichZ
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Re: Replacing wooden bridge
[re: beenthere]
12/18/02 12:58 PM
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Thanks, BT, I appreciate the info.
Rich
"What a long strange trip it's been."
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RichZ
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Re: Replacing wooden bridge
[re: MikePA]
12/18/02 01:00 PM
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Hi, Mike! Yep I was thinking about steel grating as well. I thought it might be more resistant to rust. I'll try to find some info on that, as well.
Rich
"What a long strange trip it's been."
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beenthere
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Re: Replacing wooden bridge
[re: RichZ]
12/18/02 01:06 PM
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You are welcome. and here is reference to the bridge program research by the USDA Forest Service.
http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/techline/VI-2.pdf
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s1120
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Re: Replacing wooden bridge
[re: RichZ]
12/18/02 01:09 PM
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Rich, Its just amazing how different, diferent types of wood can be. I unearthed a lot of info when I started getting into wooden boat building about 10 years ago. I always thought wood, was wood. WRONG! If you are board[get the pun. sorry] heres a link for you. woodweb
Paul Bradway
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MikePA
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Re: Replacing wooden bridge
[re: RichZ]
12/18/02 01:13 PM
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Hi Richie! Friends of ours have to cross a stream to get to their home as well. It's a one lane bridge with a steel grate deck. It also had rails on each side since it was about 15 feet above the stream. While the bridge was wide enough to get a full sized tractor across, it was not wide enough for a corn planter. This caused them to have to travel a rather muddy and roundabout path in the spring. My friend and his dad decided they would install a removable pipe railing to deal with this. However, this did not satisfy the township, who wanted a permanent railing. My friend and his dad went ahead with their plan anyway. All was well until the township engineer came out to inspect the railing. Since the slots the removable rails fit into were well down on the bridge structure, it was difficult to see the rails could be removed. The inspection was going along fine, until the engineer decided to lean on the railing. It didn't move much, just enough to scare the dickens out of the inspector who thought she was headed into the creek!
The next time I drove by their place, the township had installed regular guard rail on both sides of the bridge.
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RichZ
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Re: Replacing wooden bridge
[re: beenthere]
12/18/02 01:20 PM
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Interesting info, BT, thanks, again!
Rich
"What a long strange trip it's been."
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RichZ
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Re: Replacing wooden bridge
[re: s1120]
12/18/02 01:22 PM
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Paul, thanks for the website! I used to own an antique shop, and my speciality was restoring and refinishing antique furniture. I had to learn to identify and match different types and grains of wood. I'm always interested in learning more about wood.
Rich
"What a long strange trip it's been."
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RichZ
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Re: Replacing wooden bridge
[re: MikePA]
12/18/02 01:26 PM
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Good story, Mike! Part of my job is doing building inspections, and I have leaned on rails (and other building parts) that have moved when they weren't supposed to! Not a happy feeling! Luckily my bridge already has permanent railing on the sides.
I originally was thinking of a steel grate deck. I'll do a search and see what I come up with about that.
Rich
"What a long strange trip it's been."
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RichZ
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Here's a picture of my bridge. The railings are the same on each side, but wild grape is growing all over one side. The planks slide under the railing, and the bottom of the railing holds them in place.
Rich
"What a long strange trip it's been."
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Re: Replacing wooden bridge
[re: RichZ]
12/18/02 01:38 PM
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Neat bridge!
Here's a link to a study entitled 'Comparison of Bridge Deck Alternatives Using Life Cycle Costs'
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