|
GaryM
|
|
Veteran Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/12/02
|
|
Posts: 1212
|
|
Loc: Warrenton, MO
|
|
Fiber Reinforced Concrete
09/27/02 11:34 AM
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
Do I want to use fiber reinforced concrete for the basement floor slab and garage floor slab? Someone told me that it doesn't finish as nice as concrete with no fiber.
The basement floor will mostly be carpeted and I intend to paint the garage floor with an epoxy paint made for garage use.
Gary
----------------------------------------------
Hey! Aren't you supposed to be working?
Post Extras:
|
|
DUMBDOG
|
|
Gold Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/11/02
|
|
Posts: 286
|
|
Loc: North Dakota, Florida
|
|
Re: Fiber Reinforced Concrete
[re: GaryM]
09/28/02 12:14 AM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
My new shop has the fiber reinforced cement, it does not have as nice as finish as regular concrete, but I think a lot of that has to do with who is doing the finishing.
Far less cracking than regular cement, I would highly recommend it. 
Post Extras:
|
|
GaryM
|
|
Veteran Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/12/02
|
|
Posts: 1212
|
|
Loc: Warrenton, MO
|
|
Re: Fiber Reinforced Concrete
[re: DUMBDOG]
09/28/02 06:33 PM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
When you say it doesn't have as nice a finish, is it suitable for painting? I mean it's not like a broom finish or anything like that, right. Just maybe not as smooth as a steel trowel would leave?
Gary
----------------------------------------------
Hey! Aren't you supposed to be working?
Post Extras:
|
|
jtd
|
|
Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/14/02
|
|
Posts: 95
|
|
Loc: SC, Aiken
|
|
Re: Fiber Reinforced Concrete
[re: GaryM]
09/28/02 08:49 PM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
Gary, my new workshop has a slab floor with fiber reinforced concrete. The finish is not as rough as a broom finish but somewhere inbetween that and a smooth finish. It's good for traction when slick but you probably wouldn't want it as a finished floor in a house.
Post Extras:
|
|
GaryM
|
|
Veteran Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/12/02
|
|
Posts: 1212
|
|
Loc: Warrenton, MO
|
|
Re: Fiber Reinforced Concrete
[re: jtd]
09/28/02 11:03 PM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
But it's suitable as a garage floor?
Did you paint or seal your slab?
Gary
----------------------------------------------
Hey! Aren't you supposed to be working?
Post Extras:
|
|
DUMBDOG
|
|
Gold Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/11/02
|
|
Posts: 286
|
|
Loc: North Dakota, Florida
|
|
Re: Fiber Reinforced Concrete
[re: GaryM]
09/29/02 03:19 AM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
It is very suitable for the garage, I have not painted or sealed my yet, still finishing off the inside.
Post Extras:
|
|
GaryM
|
|
Veteran Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/12/02
|
|
Posts: 1212
|
|
Loc: Warrenton, MO
|
|
Re: Fiber Reinforced Concrete
[re: DUMBDOG]
09/29/02 12:53 PM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
OK, thanks for the information. I think that I'll spec. fiber reinforcement for all the slabs. Basement, garage and patio etc.
Gary
----------------------------------------------
Hey! Aren't you supposed to be working?
Post Extras:
|
|
beenthere
|
|
Gold Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/30/02
|
|
Posts: 343
|
|
Loc: midwest
|
|
Re: Fiber Reinforced Concrete
[re: GaryM]
10/02/02 01:16 PM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
I have just finished within the last year, a garage floor and the 30' x 30'
apron in front of the garage. Both have fiber reinforcement, and
I would not want it for a basement floor (at least not with as much
fiber as the garage has). It brooms off well in the garage, and I did
NOT let them put a broom finish on the apron outside (they wanted to, but
I think that is mainly because they don't have to trowel it near as
well when they put on a broom finish!). I like the finish outside as well.
I do not think it is slippery with the fibers, and it is much easier to keep
clean.
Post Extras:
|
|
wombat12
|
|
New Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/15/02
|
|
Posts: 8
|
|
Loc: West/central Pa
|
|
Re: Fiber Reinforced Concrete
[re: GaryM]
10/06/02 06:32 PM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
What is advantage to fiber? Does it hold up better to resist cracking? Reason I'm curious is I have a !8x20 shed I'd love to get a floor in but I'm afraid with cocrete it will get all busted up by frost(live in western Pa) any ideas? Thanks
Post Extras:
|
|
beenthere
|
|
Gold Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/30/02
|
|
Posts: 343
|
|
Loc: midwest
|
|
Re: Fiber Reinforced Concrete
[re: wombat12]
10/06/02 07:05 PM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
The fiber reinforces the concrete, giving it more tensile strength. If you want to add yet more strength, put reinforcing fence (wire) in the concrete as well. Do this on a good base and you should be able to keep the concrete from busting up. If concerned, I would also pour at least 5" thickness. The entire floor should act as a single piece, and float with any frost that might occur. If the shed is heated, adding insulation around the perimeter of the concrete pad will help hold the frost back too.
Post Extras:
|
|
Bayrat
|
|
Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/23/02
|
|
Posts: 83
|
|
Loc: Upstate NY
|
|
Re: Fiber Reinforced Concrete
[re: GaryM]
10/13/02 01:28 PM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
Gary,
I have a 40x60 barn with the fiber floor and no rebar. It was extremely hot the week we poured it and we had trouble keeping it from drying too fast. None the less, the crew completed most of it with a finish that is almost mirror smooth. There are some areas in the corners and around plumbing that could not be reached with the power trawler and show fibers sticking through, but even in a basement that was not going to be painted it would be ok. I have two areas that cracked, both where the sun was beating in through the overhead door openings, but they are not so severe that they are noticeable if you aren't looking.
Bayrat
Post Extras:
|
|
GaryM
|
|
Veteran Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/12/02
|
|
Posts: 1212
|
|
Loc: Warrenton, MO
|
|
Re: Fiber Reinforced Concrete
[re: Bayrat]
10/13/02 04:52 PM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
Thanks for the additional information. It's hard to know what's best as there are so many conflicting claims.
I'm hoping to use the fiber reinforcement in the basement and garage slabs as well as the garage turn around pad.
Gary
----------------------------------------------
Hey! Aren't you supposed to be working?
Post Extras:
|
|
Stoneheartfarm
|
|
Veteran Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 10/10/02
|
|
Posts: 792
|
|
Loc: West Central Michigan
|
|
Re: Fiber Reinforced Concrete
[re: beenthere]
10/13/02 05:15 PM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
If you want to work with reinforced cement on a small scale, the fiberglass is available in 1 and I believe 3 yard bags. I bought a 1 yard bag and it was about $5.00. The brand name was "stealth" and the stuff reminded be somewhat of the inside of a milkweed pod. Shiny white fibers about 1/2 inch long. With the average bag of sackrete being about 1/2 cu foot, it doesn't take more that a good pinch of fiber.
SHF
Post Extras:
|
|
tenebrous
|
|
Gold Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/11/02
|
|
Posts: 413
|
|
Loc: Geneseo, New York
|
|
Re: Fiber Reinforced Concrete
[re: GaryM]
10/13/02 06:47 PM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
In our new home we have an excellent finish on our concrete floors with the concrete mesh. On another project the fibers show all over the place. Different mason and a very different result.
Post Extras:
|
|
tenebrous
|
|
Gold Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/11/02
|
|
Posts: 413
|
|
Loc: Geneseo, New York
|
|
Re:The fiber glass is ea Fiber Reinforced Concrete
[re: wombat12]
10/13/02 06:58 PM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
The fiber glass is easier but the best system for a slab is still rebar and reinforcing wire. It is very hard to get a mason in our area to use anything but the fiber.
I do not have a slab in my barn because it is on fill and I want to wait for settling. I also want a rebar and reinforcing wire system but the masons are too busy to give me a quote. Strange I can get all the bids I want if I go with the fiber. I will look around in the spring and see if I can find a mason that still knows how the use rebar.
Post Extras:
|
|
wingnut
|
|
Gold Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/12/02
|
|
Posts: 260
|
|
Loc: mid-Michigan
|
|
Re: Fiber Reinforced Concrete
[re: wombat12]
10/14/02 03:14 PM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
I've never lived anywhere where I didn't have to worry about frost .... never built a garage pad or a basement or any other concrete structure without rebar ... and never had a single conscrete structure NOT crack. I always considered it a fact of life and just tried to make sure I put in expansion joints whereever feasible.
I'd be interested in seeing / understanding how fiber would be better than rebar ...
it's a shame that common sense isn't
http://www.dahlhausminiatures.com
Post Extras:
|
|
Phred
|
|
Silver Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/13/02
|
|
Posts: 104
|
|
Loc: Arkansas
|
|
Re: Fiber Reinforced Concrete
[re: GaryM]
10/16/02 10:34 PM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
Gary,
I have a 40x60 pad that is fiber filled. The little fibers do make it rough, but not that bad. I think it makes a good floor for a shop / garrage. Mine is 4" thick.
However, it did develope a very small crack almost the entire length shortly after being poured. I wonder if the old fashion rebar would not have been better. May have just been the mason who did the work.
I have not gotten around to sealing mine yet, but plan to. Why would you consider paint? In my expereince it is a pain since it chips off and starts to look bad after a realtively short period of time.
Fred
Post Extras:
|
|
jtd
|
|
Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/14/02
|
|
Posts: 95
|
|
Loc: SC, Aiken
|
|
Re: Fiber Reinforced Concrete
[re: Phred]
10/17/02 06:10 AM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
My fiber filled shop floor also immediately developed a small crack in it. It was very warm when it was poured and dried too quickly according to the general contractor - even with a sprinkler on it. The mix was probably too dry. The house pour was done on a cooler week. It used fiber filled concrete plus rebar and wire (due to some of the interior footings for loadbearing walls. It didn't crack at all and is quite smooth.
Post Extras:
|
|
egon
|
|
Veteran Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/12/02
|
|
Posts: 3031
|
|
Loc: Nova Scotia,Canada
|
|
Re: Fiber Reinforced Concrete
[re: jtd]
10/17/02 06:19 AM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
"dried too quickly according to the general contractor - even with a sprinkler"
Or perhaps there was not enough manpower/equipment to finish it in the time allotted.
Egon
Post Extras:
|
|
jtd
|
|
Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/14/02
|
|
Posts: 95
|
|
Loc: SC, Aiken
|
|
Re: Fiber Reinforced Concrete
[re: egon]
10/17/02 06:37 AM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
That is possible. I was on vacation when they poured the shop floor. My neighbor's watch the project when I'm not there and critique the work so I hear lots of things. Sometimes they are too quick to judge without complete information so I have to have a more balanced outlook.
Post Extras:
|
|
GaryM
|
|
Veteran Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/12/02
|
|
Posts: 1212
|
|
Loc: Warrenton, MO
|
|
Re: Fiber Reinforced Concrete
[re: Phred]
10/17/02 03:09 PM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
They now make these two part paints for concrete that are either epoxy or perhaps polyurethane. The come with color flakes that are sprinkled on to to make it pretty. I felt that the paint would provide a smoother, non-dusting surface that would be easier to maintain.
This is the stuff I've seen at True Value:
http://www.paintideas.com/product_info.asp?LinkCount=1&ProductId1=57&FLT=~0~
Gary
----------------------------------------------
Hey! Aren't you supposed to be working?
Post Extras:
|
|
Phred
|
|
Silver Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/13/02
|
|
Posts: 104
|
|
Loc: Arkansas
|
|
Re: Fiber Reinforced Concrete
[re: GaryM]
12/10/02 11:41 PM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
Gary,
You may be right that if the paint did not chip off it would be smooth and easy to maintain. Maybe you could get the same effect from a thick coating of clear sealer. That way if it wears off in places you won't be able to tell.
I have seen to many painted concrete pads that look terrible due to wear. The old paints never seemed to stick well enough. Perhaps the new stuff is better.
Fred
Post Extras:
|
|
Stoneheartfarm
|
|
Veteran Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 10/10/02
|
|
Posts: 792
|
|
Loc: West Central Michigan
|
|
Re: Fiber Reinforced Concrete
[re: GaryM]
12/11/02 10:38 AM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
You can also get the epoxy based coatings at Home Depot. Word of warning. They can be a bit slippery. I went up on a porch that had been epoxy coated. With an inch of snow on it, I slid from one side, right off the other.  But, I think you can add fine grit for traction. Of course, that negates the advantage of a smooth floor when it comes to cleaning up oil spills. On the other hand, it might keep that oil spill from cracking your noggin.
SHF
Post Extras:
|
|
GaryM
|
|
Veteran Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/12/02
|
|
Posts: 1212
|
|
Loc: Warrenton, MO
|
|
|
The contractor plans to pour footing for the new house on Friday or Monday, so I guess it's time to figure out if I want fiber reinforcement or not.
I'm leaning toward fiber for the garage, but not in the workshop.
Gary
----------------------------------------------
Hey! Aren't you supposed to be working?
Post Extras:
|
|
Stoneheartfarm
|
|
Veteran Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 10/10/02
|
|
Posts: 792
|
|
Loc: West Central Michigan
|
|
Re: Fiber Reinforced Concrete
[re: GaryM]
12/11/02 06:36 PM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
My fibered concrete cracked. On the other hand, I've seen re-bar reinforced concrete crack, too. Maybe the solution is to go with rebar reinforced fibered concrete?
SHF
Post Extras:
|
|
jmattox1
|
|
New Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 04/17/03
|
|
Posts: 4
|
|
Loc: Indiana
|
|
Re: Fiber Reinforced Concrete
[re: wingnut]
04/17/03 03:29 PM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
Just started to post so sorry so late in response on the dates.
But i got to say if concrete cracks than the base is unstable. I can show you very large pours of concrete that hasn't cacked in over 20 years.
It is simple the secret is in the base.
Example:
1) 24X24 Garage poured in 1964 no cracks.
2) 30X40 Basement floor poured in 1965 no cracks, and not 1 control joint but 4 floor drains.
Jon
New to country and loving it.
Post Extras:
|
|
GERARD
|
|
Silver Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 03/08/03
|
|
Posts: 103
|
|
Loc: upstate NY
|
|
Re: Fiber Reinforced Concrete
[re: jmattox1]
04/17/03 06:49 PM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
Don't think it's QUITE that simplistic but I agree 100% a sound, compacted and non settling base is very important. The mix, cure rate, and water retention is also as important. You could pour concrete over concrete but if you do it in 90 deg weather, direct sun and don't keep things damp you're going to get shrink cracks and a crumbly concrete that isn't going to hold up well. Concrete's pretty amazing stuff when you consider the Roman aquaducts are still around and we can't stop a garage floor from cracking sometimes!!!  (PS What's the second most consumed product in the world?? Yup, concrete, water's # 1)
Post Extras:
|
|
GerardC
|
|
New Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 03/19/04
|
|
Posts: 12
|
|
|
|
Re: Fiber Reinforced Concrete
[re: GaryM]
03/27/04 02:18 AM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
I did my garage floor with "FRC" last summer. There are NO cracks in it and I DO NOT have any expansion joints!! The finish can be anything you want. I had mine done with a "light" power trowel. I have a "light" sandy finish. Great for traction yet doesn't hold the dirt. Easy sweeping.
Post Extras:
|
|
Pat
|
|
Veteran Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/15/02
|
|
Posts: 4904
|
|
Loc: SouthCentral Oklahoma
|
|
Re: Fiber Reinforced Concrete
[re: GerardC]
03/28/04 01:57 PM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
Basically there are two kinds of large pours of concrete, those that have cracked and those that are going to crack.
Fibers help control/reduce cosmetic cracking but do not, no matter what you may have heard. replace rebar.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
Post Extras:
|
|
GerardC
|
|
New Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 03/19/04
|
|
Posts: 12
|
|
|
|
Re: Fiber Reinforced Concrete
[re: Pat]
03/28/04 06:33 PM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
Only time will tell. I'm sure eventually that some may appear. But, so far we are good as gold.
Post Extras:
|
|
Pat
|
|
Veteran Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/15/02
|
|
Posts: 4904
|
|
Loc: SouthCentral Oklahoma
|
|
Re: Fiber Reinforced Concrete
[re: GerardC]
03/29/04 08:21 AM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
Gerard, You are fortunate that you don't have any cracks, yet. That's nice. I know several people who plan to live forever and so far so good.
I was really happy with my mom's 24x26 garage slab as it was crack free too. It was crack free for over 3 years but has a crack right down the middle now. Of course with our good use of rebar the crack will remain cosmetic and never open up or cause a structural problem. My 175 linear feet of cast concrete basement walls 10 ft high are crack free after almost a year. unfortunatley I don't have a single slab anywhere that is crack free except sections of porch slab that had control joints sawed into them. Some of the control joiints have cracks (doing there job) and some don't, yet. (Emphasis on YET)
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
Post Extras:
|
Previous
Index
Next
Flat
Threaded