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RobS
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DIY Masonry
09/26/03 12:56 PM
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OK folks, I need a sanity check...
My big project for next spring will be a brick patio. I'll design it over the winter so don't ask those kind of questions yet. My concern is in the construction. Is a full masonry patio realistically a DIY project? This is mortared brick, not dry laid pavers.
I am a very able bodied handyman. Never met a project I couldn't handle and usually handle quite well. I've also never laid brick (other than dry laid pavers). I've got some smaller projects I can tackle for practice but something in the back of my mind says brick work is more art than skill. At the same time, I know there is a high labor cost to having it done professionally and that always makes me want to try it on my own.
So, anyone tried it? Any masons out there with advice? Help 
Rob
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fivestring
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Re: DIY Masonry
[re: RobS]
09/26/03 02:14 PM
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That is one project I would hire out. Mortar changes the game.
If the foundation isn't packed tight, everything will sag and then collect water. Water will become ice in the winter, cracking something. In the spring, it's repair time, etc.
At least if you hire it out, you can get warranty and repair work.
Gary
Bluegrass Music ...
Finger-pickin' good!
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AndyF
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Re: DIY Masonry
[re: RobS]
09/27/03 08:58 AM
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Why do you want to use mortar? Historically, brick is usually laid w/o mortar so that it can move a little with the weather and also be repaired more easily when the time comes to do some repairs.
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ScottAR
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Re: DIY Masonry
[re: AndyF]
09/27/03 11:31 AM
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That was my question as well. There's a bank in my town that has brick sidewalks and courtyard. Every year areas have to be repointed. Hmmm Did the Victorians do it that way? Historical reproduction would be the only reason I'd do it that way. Pavers or stamped concrete would have less maintence.
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Stoneheartfarm
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Re: DIY Masonry
[re: RobS]
09/27/03 01:53 PM
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I don't think I've seen too many mortared patios. Winter freeze thaw cycles can bust up highways made of cement and blacktop. I would expect a similar problem with a mortared patio.
Is there a particular reason you want to mortar it? Strength, weatherproofing, keeping out weeds, or just appeal?
Steve
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AndyF
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Re: DIY Masonry
[re: RobS]
09/27/03 09:28 PM
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If you really want mortar, the best way to approach it will probably be as if you were doing tile. Pour a slab, bed the bricks onto the slab and then mortar. This will be a lot of work and with freeze thaw you need to pay close attention to drainage and proper pitch on the patio to ensure that water doesn't collect. You'll also need to consider how to best cut in your expansion joints.
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LazyJ_Arabians
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Re: DIY Masonry
[re: AndyF]
09/27/03 10:36 PM
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I got on a brick kick when I lived in my previous house and that's how I built a patio except I didn't bed the brick into the wet concrete. It was kinda hourglass shaped and of about a 20' by 10' dimension, well crowned, and had two expansion joints in the narrow part. I built a much coveted brick bbq/smoker off one end that was so big people first thought was a kid's playhouse with a chimney. All using antique brick that matched the house. Planters, flower beds, retaining wall, sidewalk, mulch bin, I even made a brick doghouse before I ran out of bricks. Slow going but just the brainless kind of work I enjoy and a good looking finished product. Proof you can get a little nuts living in the city with not much to do outside.
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RobS
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Thanks for the input guys, some interesting points to ponder. The only reason for wanting the mortared look is the historical aspect. The patio will be raised with brick on the retaining wall as well as brick "railing" topped with ironwork of some sort. Will include a brick outdoor kitchen area and built in grill/oven. I have considered pouring a slab for the floor to sit on. Have also toyed with the idea of ceramic tile for the floor which may be better in the long run anyway.
I'm still mostly concerned with my ability to lay brick (either vertically or flatwork) and have it look good. I know it's not rocket science but I suspect there is a bit of experience to having it look nice
Rob
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Stoneheartfarm
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Re: DIY Masonry
[re: RobS]
09/28/03 09:54 AM
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Rob,
I keep trying to remember those times I've seen the pavement torn up and the brick work underneath and for the life of me, I can't remember it being mortared. I would imagine there are different methods of laying those roads though, because standards for things were a lot laxer. So, maybe some places mortared and others didn't. But, all I can remember around here is a dry laid herringbone.
Steve
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RobS
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Steve, you're right. All the brick roads I've ever seen were dry laid as well. That is still a possibility for us though we've seen plenty of period patios and porches that were mortared in. Makes for a very distinctive look and feel that we both like
Rob
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dmccarty
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Re: DIY Masonry
[re: RobS]
09/30/03 03:17 PM
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Rob,
You might want to check with the local community colleges. I saw
some night time classes on laying masonary. I was thinking about
taking the classes for some of my projects. It might be worth
looking into.
Later,
Dan
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Chuck52
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Re: DIY Masonry
[re: RobS]
10/03/03 10:42 AM
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Rob,
Sure seems like horizontal exposed mortar joints would likely to be a maintenance nightmare. I just this spring/summer laid about 700 square feet of patio using concrete unipavers, dry laid on a sub-base of 4-6 inches of one-inch-minus road surface gravel covered with sand. If you prepare the sub-base well, the pavers, whether concrete or brick, can almost be dropped in place. All the paving bricks and concrete pavers I looked at were designed to have minimal spaces between. I used sand to lock in my pavers, though I might have gotten better results with rock dust. Water drains quickly through my patio and, presumably, follows the slope of the undisturbed soil away from the house. I will see this winter if freeze/thaw cycles cause problems, but I think my packed gravel sub-base should minimize that. In your climate, I would think that porous mortar joints would be a problem. Thinking of water-proofing the whole shebang?
Chuck
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Stoneheartfarm
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Re: DIY Masonry
[re: RobS]
10/03/03 06:26 PM
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Rob,
Were those porches and patios covered with roofs? Just wondering. That would relieve at least some of the problems associated with water freezing in the mortar joints.
Steve
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rhkirk
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Re: DIY Masonry
[re: RobS]
10/28/03 07:07 AM
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I live in west central Indiana and I have had no problems with my mortared patio. I poured a 4" slab which I left plain for a couple months until I could brick over it. I then set the bricks in mortar on top of the concrete. It is not very difficult. Good luck.
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