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GregMVT
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Chicken questions
02/12/06 09:18 AM
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Hi,
I have finally talked my wife into getting some chickens this spring. However, this is new to me and I have a lot of questions. The first issue is what kind? We live in Vermont and the winters can be a little cold so they will need to be able to winter here. Also we would not be raising any for meat, eggs only, so there would not be any roosters. We live on the edge of a small village and close to an elementary school but own 13 acres, mostly used as a sugarbush. How many chickens would an 8'x12' coop handle? We are considering 15 birds? Should it be insulated? Because of our location free ranging isn't a good option. I would like to fence in an area of our back yard. How high should the fence be and what kind? Are cats a problem? There are a number of them that "visit" us mostly in the summer. I think they are after mice that seem to like our pumpkins and tomatos. I think that's all the questions, for now but there will probably be more!!
Greg
Kioti CK30
19 chickens
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Bird
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Re: Chicken questions
[re: GregMVT]
02/12/06 09:51 AM
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Greg, it's been many years since we had chickens, and I'm sure you'll get some responses from folks more knowledgeable than I, but . . .
My family preferred white leghorns for laying hens. I don't know whether there's a big difference as far north as you are, but we had some freezing, icy weather in Oklahoma back then and I don't recall ever losing a chicken because of weather (except baby chicks, of course). Just be sure they have plenty of clean water and feed. Our chickens were free range, but roosted and laid eggs in uninsulated wood coops with one "wall" nothing but chicken wire (well ventilated). You can manage 15 in that size coop if it's kept clean, and as mentioned before, plenty of feed and water, but I think I'd prefer a dozen or less. However, if you're going to have a fenced outdoor area for them, in addition to the coop, 15 should be no problem at all. We always had a couple of cats around, but never had cats bother the chickens; dogs are another matter though. As for fence height . . . 6' will keep most chickens in, but a lot of people put chicken wire on top, too, both the keep chickens in and predators out. And if the chickens have anything they can get on top of to launch, they may go over a 6' fence; some fly better than others. When we had one that could fly too well, we clipped their wing feathers with scissors. If you do that, a 4' fence is plenty.
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JoeR
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Re: Chicken questions
[re: GregMVT]
02/12/06 11:36 AM
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I let my chickcens free range, but your garden with nice red tomatos would be a fine treat for them! Chickens love tomatos! And they like to dig in the garden for bugs. Dogs, foxes, weasels, raccoons, skunks, etc... like to eat chickens. Some cats will attack chickens too, but usually a large chicken can do some damage to a cat. Will your coop be stationary or on skids? I have mine on skids, and drag it around so the droppings don't build up. If it is stationary then think about what you will use for bedding material, and the droppings. Diatamaceous earth and lime are good odor and insect control in the coop. Think about egg boxes too.
If you are ordering chickens through the mail the minimum order is 25. They do this for warmth, and the hatcheries like to throw in a rooster since they are usually bigger and provide more warmth than the hens. Don't try going to Tractor Supply and picking out only hens. You will surely pick a rooster by accident. Certain breeds are sexed, while others are not. You will see this when looking through a catalog or on-line. Most likely the initial 25 will not all live. You may lose three or four. Also, you will need a stock tank or a large box to keep the chicks until they are around 6 weeks old. You can move them out to the coop once they lose their down feathers. Don't forget a heat lamp to keep the peeps warm until they are old enough.
Ideal hatchery and Mcmurray hatchery have some good starter information too.
Mcmurray link
Ideal hatchery link
Good luck,
Joe
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rfawkes
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Re: Chicken questions
[re: JoeR]
02/13/06 09:55 AM
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I keep 20 chickens and a rooster in a 16 x 8 house, but keep them in a fenced area so as to get the eggs laid in nesting boxes. I use 5 gallon buckets in a frame for nesting, as they are easy to pull out and clean. When you order 25 you will more likely get 30 as they always put in extra to account for losses during transit. After 10 to 12 weeks, take the excess birds, and you have chicken dinners. If you are not up to the task, ask around, someone will take them off your hands. I get my chickens from Sunray Chick Hatchery, best prices I have found, shipping from Iowa. I have golden comets and black sex link chickens for the brown eggs, which are in big demand here. I go up to the Legion Hall and say farm eggs today, and 2 minutes later I am sold out. It makes a great excuse to go to the Legion Hall.
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GregMVT
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Re: Chicken questions
[re: Bird]
02/13/06 04:57 PM
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Thank you for the information so far. Hopefully someone local will respond too. We can see snow here starting early October through late May. I forgot to mention that skunks and racoons are a problem around here, mostly skunks. If this works out I'll plant some extra tomatos for the chickens. I called the town manager today to find out if there were any restrictions. He said I would have to call him back tomorrow but he didn't sound to excited about it. Most of my property is in the village with only about 2/3 of an acre in the town and that isn't near the house. I think there is a zoning requirement for a 100 foot setback on livestock pens. If this is true then I am limited to where I can build the coop and still have it on level ground and not include trees/brush and a side hill . I wouldn't have a problem slaughtering the "extra" chickens, however my wife does. I'm not sure she'd be able to cook or eat them. There will probably be more questions.
Thanks again for you help.
Greg
Kioti CK30
19 chickens
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Bird
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Re: Chicken questions
[re: GregMVT]
02/13/06 05:12 PM
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Greg, since you're in Vermont, you might find this site of interest. A member of Countrybynet's sister website, Tractorbynet, who uses the name of Boondox is in Vermont and has chickens.
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egon
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Re: Chicken questions
[re: Bird]
02/14/06 06:29 AM
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Please note my knowledge is about 40 years out of date.
I'd suggest an insulated hen house that has access to electricity so water can be kept in cold weather. There should be some roosts in the henhouse as well as some laying cages that isolate the birds. Ventilation is important. Straw works well as bedding and cleans out easily. At least once a week. I'd suggest an open run attached to the hen house. Covered would be even better if you have predators. They can be let out to free range in summer but should be penned up at night. Winter time will depend on the temperatures. A set evening feeding time may make them easier to pen up at night.
In very cold weather they may have their combs or legs frozen if not properly housed. They should not be crowded and if any bird shows signs of being picked on it must be removed.
The hen house can be built on a slope.
Egon
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roujesky
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Re: Chicken questions
[re: egon]
02/14/06 09:10 PM
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My only 2 cents here is on breed. I have been extremely happy in the past with a breed called 'Production Reds'. They are a really pretty, reddish brown bird. They lay a really pretty brown egg. I think it is the most prolific brown egg laying breed. My feeling is that if you are going to the trouble of raising chickens for eggs, you might as well get a brown egg that is difficult/expensive to get at the store.  My experience is that sexing chicks is not an exact science and you will get at least one rooster. That is actually a good thing as a rooster will protect his hens from EVERYTHING. And the rooster is the most spectacularly beautiful specimen of a bird. Brilliant chocolate with a reddish tint and dark green tail feathers.
I live in Texas, but I have never heard about any temperature problems with any chickens.
Good luck, it is a lot of fun!
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Bird
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Re: Chicken questions
[re: roujesky]
02/15/06 05:31 AM
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In reply to:
you might as well get a brown egg
I know the brown eggs are more expensive at the grocery store, but can anyone tell me why they are or whether they are any better than a white egg? 
When I was a kid, we got a hundred of so baby chicks every year and dad got them cheap because he bought them from the Post Office. When chicks arrived, if for some reason they could not be delivered within a certain amount of time, the Postmaster sold them cheap. As a result, we got a variety of different breeds over the years. Most of the time, we had white eggs, but some years we had brown ones.
And there's a story my mother has always loved telling. When I was just a baby, we moved to Baltimore when dad took a job at the Social Security Administration, and lived in an apartment building where many of the other residents had never even seen a farm. She said there was a guy who came around about once a week with a push cart selling fresh vegetables and eggs. When one of the women saw him coming, she'd knock on the neighbors' doors to tell them he was there. And one day, a neighbor knocked on the door, told Mother the guy was out front, and "he's got a good price on eggs today, but make him let you pick out your own because he's got some that are so old they've turned brown."
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GregMVT
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Re: Chicken questions
[re: roujesky]
02/15/06 05:58 AM
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Thank you for the information. I had been thinking about Buff Orpingtons since they have a lot of characteristics that I like/need. There are several reasons I prefer no roosters, I don't need neighbors complaining about the noise, I don't want to risk having eggs fertilized, especially if I end up selling any or giving them away. I also don't want to deal with aggressive birds, a sure way of them ending in the oven!!
Egon, if I could build on the side hill without having to cut any maples I would. I am planning on using woodchips, about 10 acres of our land is wooded, a lot of saplings that chip up good, at least it will save me the cost of buying straw and once they get moved to the compost heap and aged they should be great for the garden!!
Bird, Boondox's site is one the first ones that I found when searching for information on chickens in VT. I'm a member at TBN too and he had PM'd me about a woodsplitter and how it was doing for me. I'll have to ask him about his chickens and what he has. I'm not sure if there really is a difference between brown and white eggs other than the color.
Thank you!!
Kioti CK30
19 chickens
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egon
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Re: Chicken questions
[re: Bird]
02/15/06 06:08 AM
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Surely can not answere the question on brown versus white eggs but if you ask about yoke colour I sure know what I like. 
Egon
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GaryM
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Re: Chicken questions
[re: egon]
02/15/06 10:01 AM
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Anyone see the repeat of "Dirty Jobs" on Discovery Channel last night? Mike was at the McMurry Hatchery learning how to sex chicks.
Gary
----------------------------------------------
Hey! Aren't you supposed to be working?
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RichZ
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Re: Chicken questions
[re: GregMVT]
02/15/06 05:31 PM
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The only difference between white and brown eggs (other than the color) is that the shells of brown eggs are thicker, so are harder to break, and hold up better to rough handling. Nutritionally, they're exactly the same.
Rich
"What a long strange trip it's been."
Edited by RichZ (02/15/06 05:32 PM)
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rfawkes
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Re: Chicken questions
[re: RichZ]
02/16/06 06:00 AM
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My father wholesaled eggs from Kansas farms to Kansas City and to New York. In New York they can't sell a white egg, and in Kansas City they can't sell a brown one. There are certainly regional differences in the appearance that is favored, not the flavor. Eggs from chickens who can scratch the dirt, eat a bug and green grass have deep yellow orange yolks, where cage layed eggs typically have a light lemon colored yolks. The major difference is fresh eggs eaten the week they are layed taste better than those in the store that spend several weeks in storage before getting to your table.
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rfawkes
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Re: Chicken questions
[re: rfawkes]
02/16/06 06:04 AM
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I forgot to add that their is a nutritional difference between a cage layed egg, and a free range chicken egg. The cage layed egg has higher cholesterol than the eggs of a free range chicken.
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ALBALD1
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Re: Chicken questions
[re: GregMVT]
02/16/06 06:59 PM
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I got into chickens 2 years ago. I bought a book called "Storey's Guide to Raising Chickens". It has a lot of good basic info. However, the single best resource I've found for chicken info is at this website http://pub228.ezboard.com/bbackyardchickens
Those members are very friendly & knowledgeable, just like here, but focused on every aspect of chickens from coop design, to predator prevention, to different breeds, just everything. Anytime I've had questions, I've gotten multiple replies quickly. Personally, I would recommend Barred Rocks & Golden Comets. Thats what I have & they are both known as cold tolerant & good brown egg layers. However, there are many breeds that will fit your needs. I have a total of 11 hens now & consistently get 5-8 eggs per day without using added lights at all. My local feed store will order me hens when they order their spring chicks too. That helps me get around the 25 chick minimum. One thing I've learned is people like to talk about their chickens, so you won't have any problem getting info. Definitely read the many pages on coop building BEFORE you build. There are a lot of little things that make chicken raising easier, such as having access to eggs w/out going inside. Sorry such a long reply, but I like to talk about chickens too.
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tbolt
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Ever thought of Auracanas, they lay colored eggs. various shades of blue,green, and pink. They are called the easter egg layers and the eggs are supposed to be lower in cholesterol. My choice would be Buff Orpinton or Black Australorp for brown eggs but I like setters too. As far as pure egg production I'd have to go with Sex Links. The young pullets are gonna lay some very large, double yoked eggs regardless of the variety. After eating the brown eggs and especially after cooking a few cakes with them you'll not want any more white eggs from the grocery store. The Australorps and Buffs are very tame easy natured chickens, even the roosters. The picture is my layig house and run, run being constructed out of dog wire to keep out varmints. One of the few snows weve had in several winters.
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GregMVT
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Re: Chicken questions
[re: ALBALD1]
02/19/06 05:31 PM
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I ordered the Storey's book from McMurray's and finished reading it today. A lot of information in there for a beginner. Also signed up at Backyard Chickens the other day. A friend told me there is a feed store not to far from me where I could order chicks, not sure what/where they order from. I work at a college that has a small farm, chickens/sheep/oxen. The farm manager said he might be odering some this spring so I could put my order in with his. I'll have to check the Discovery Channel and try to catch that show. Think they rerun them fairly often. Think it would be interesting.
Thank you all for the information.
Kioti CK30
19 chickens
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ALBALD1
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Re: Chicken questions
[re: GregMVT]
02/19/06 07:48 PM
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Just about any hatchery I've heard of has a wide variety of choices. I would just talk to whichever one you are more comfortable w/ & find out where they order. Chances are the hatchery they order from will have a website & you can see what they offer. My local feed store starts ordering a few weeks before Easter. I guess thats a popular Easter present. They had a special where you bought a bag of feed & 6 assorted chicks free. Thats how I got started, but I don't recomend that, cuz you can't choose the sex. That was the first lesson learned. Too many roosters will wear the feathers off the hens. I'll tell you now, build the coop as big as you can now. Those chickens are addictive. You will probably want more after you get started. Also, you might want to hatch your own at some point. Its nice to have room to block off a corner for a broody hen to set eggs for you. I've raised day olds in my garage & let a hen raise some. Its a lot easier if the hen raises them. She regulates temperature & protects them from other chickens. Good luck.
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lliefveld
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Re: Chicken questions
[re: Bird]
02/24/06 11:35 AM
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In reply to:
we moved to Baltimore when dad took a job at the Social Security Administration,
I know this is off-topic, and I apologize for it, but I couldn't help but be struck by this..... my dad worked for the Social Security Administration in Baltimore also... I think it was around 1938 +/- 3-4 years.
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lliefveld
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Re: Chicken questions
[re: rfawkes]
02/24/06 11:41 AM
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In reply to:
Eggs from chickens who can scratch the dirt, eat a bug and green grass
Does the flavor of chicken meat differ depending on what they eat? A friend of mine said he bought some free-range chicken meat at the store and it tasted 'funny' to him.
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Bird
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Re: Chicken questions
[re: lliefveld]
02/24/06 12:09 PM
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That is a coincidence. My Dad worked there from late 1940 to sometime in 1943. Being Oklahoma country folks, they did not like living in an apartment in Baltimore.
Now I don't know exactly what happened, but Dad always joked about "civil service" jobs and requirements. He said he took a civil service exam applying for a job as a poultry inspector and they offered him a job in the Social Security Administration.
He also said that they told him when the temperature hit 90, they closed the office and sent everyone home. He said that seemed silly to him since he'd worked in the fields on the farm when it was over 110. But he said they quickly learned about the difference in humidity. With no air-conditioning, when it hit 90 everyone just looked for a place to sit in the grass in the park in the shade until sundown.
And even in those days, a lot of city folks knew absolutely nothing about farm life. Mother says she mentioned to a neighbor about milking the cow and giving me the warm milk straight from the cow, and the neighbor said, "You mean you gave that baby milk before they put the cream in it?"
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