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RichZ
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Vinyl Horse Fencing
08/05/05 10:56 PM
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Has anyone had any experience with vinyl, three board horse fencing? I need to replace most of my fencing in my paddock and horse pasture. I have poor drainage in a lot of areas, and even locust posts eventually rot. I was hoping that the vinyl fencing would last just about for ever, unless it's not strong enough.
Thanks for any input!!
Rich
"What a long strange trip it's been."
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Pat
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Re: Vinyl Horse Fencing
[re: RichZ]
08/05/05 11:09 PM
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Some of the vinyl fencing is vinyl covers over other posts. Pick strong posts. I have seen some large areas around here fenced with vinyl and it is holding cattle as well as horses.\
 Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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MikePA
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Re: Vinyl Horse Fencing
[re: RichZ]
08/06/05 03:53 PM
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Hi Rich!
I looked into vinyl fencing a year or two ago and once I saw the price, I looked for something else, Horse Guard Fence using PT posts.
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rookie
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Re: Vinyl Horse Fencing
[re: RichZ]
08/06/05 07:18 PM
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In our climate vinyl can get pretty brittle due to extreme cold. We have been extremely happy with ElectroBraid rope on standard t-posts. It was easy to install, and the ElectroBraid is of very high quality. Our fence took a direct lightning hit a couple of weeks ago, and it took out the charger, but did not hurt the ElectroBraid at all. Unfortunately, it also blew through the breaker, traveled into the house, and took out quite a few things inside the house. We were bummed, but the fence was fine!
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Pat
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Re: Vinyl Horse Fencing
[re: rookie]
08/07/05 09:43 PM
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Rookie, There are ways of adding serious protection to your electric fence charger. It involves the installation of air wound coils (inductors) to impede the fast rise time pulse from the lightning as well as spark gaps to short out the components above the arc over potential of the gap. The addition of these components will not absolutely guarantee the survival of your charger or the prevention of propagation back through your house wiring... B U T... it will certainly lower your risk considerbly. It can protect you situations that otherwise may have smoked your charger and potentially caused mischief in your house (if on the same transformer.)
There are surge supressors that are to be installed at the breaker box to protect the whole house from surges coming in over your supply wires from the transformer. They are easy to wire to your breaker box. they are heavy duty MOV devices like the ones in spike supressor power strips but way larger... on steroids. A prudent move would be to add one on the load side of the breaker feeding the charger to absorb spikes that come into the box from the electric fence when there is nearby lightning.
These devices are available from the typical electrical supply houses where local electricians shop if not at the big box stores like Lowe's or Home Despot (uh... Depot)
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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mfaley
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Re: Vinyl Horse Fencing
[re: RichZ]
08/08/05 05:36 PM
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Rich, I dont know of any vinyl fencing I would use. I dont think its strong enough on the posts and for sure not on the rails. The rails usually just pops out when a horse leans on it.
One of the companies in our area started filling the posts with concrete but that makes it really expensive.
If you want a rail fence for horses I am not sure what your best option is but I like a good steel pipe fence with no climb on the inside or using no climb with "T" posts and good corner posts.
Mark
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Pat
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Re: Vinyl Horse Fencing
[re: mfaley]
08/13/05 10:00 PM
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Today I drove a few hundred miles in southern and south central Oklahoma. I saw several places where horses and other stock were in patures and paddocks fenced with vinyl fencing which looked to be in perfect condition although I know for sure some of the fences are not nearly new. I suppose not all vinyl fencing is created equal... Don't drop your consideration of vinyl because there is at least one manufacturer or installer that contributed to a substandard fence. They can't all be bad or I wouldn't see so much of it standing and looking sooooooo goooood!
I intend to replae some of my barbed wire fence in front of the new house with white vinyl fencing and it will be to hold livestock as well as look good.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
Edited by Pat (08/13/05 10:05 PM)
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mfaley
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Re: Vinyl Horse Fencing
[re: Pat]
08/15/05 06:35 PM
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Hi Pat,
I see it out there as well and maybe there is something out there that works. I just have never seen it. I do think that if you have a lot of area almost any barrier will work.
For me, its just not the right thing to do. There are ways to improve it but its not something I am comfortable with at this point.
Just because I am paranoid does not mean that my horse is not trying to get to the grass on the other side......... 
Regards,
Mark
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Pat
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Re: Vinyl Horse Fencing
[re: mfaley]
08/16/05 08:38 PM
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Mark, The way I was told is that some animals can smell the ozone put off by the high voltage of a fence charger. Cattle and some other animals can spell it and learn to avoid the wire with the ozone smell. You can fool them for a short time with a non-electric fence (electric fence turned off like during a thunderstorm or whatever) but soon they will challenge the inactive fence.
Goats and horses (and some other animals) apparently do not smell the difference and once hit a few times (very few for most of them) won't approach the fence to see if it is on or off unless thay are conditioned to "TEST" fences. In general they avoid "testing" electric fences once they have learned which are hot.
A nice good looking vinyl fence with a single hot wire (with a substantial charger) on standoffs on the animal side (or both sides if animals present on both sides) should function very well and look good too.
Of course, you might not want to "train" horses to avoid fences if you want them to jump or for other special circumstances. I was at an all day beef producers symposium Saturday (sponsored by the Noble Foundation and held in Ardmore, OK) and was joined for lunch by the ranch manager of the Cooley Camp Ranch and a couple of his associates. The above observations were the topic of conversation while we ate our delicious steaks. The Cooley Camp Ranch has changed ownership over the years since it was founded at the end of the civil war and is currently about 11,000 acres. Most stock handling is done on horseback and they keep an extensive ramuda.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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mfaley
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Re: Vinyl Horse Fencing
[re: Pat]
08/17/05 03:13 PM
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Pat,
I looked the ranch up and it seems like they run a good operation. It is interesting to me that more and more big ranches allow hunting. Seems like a good way to bring in pretty easy money.
It’s nice to see some ranches still doing most of the cattle work on horseback. The reined cowhorse I bought last year came off a 14,000 acre ranch along the CA coast where they still do all the cattle work on horse back. It does my heart good to see larger blocks of land still around and the old ways being preserved. I also think it does the horse a world of good to be brought up that way. I think they tend to be really mature without being burned out or training sour.
I get out to OKC almost every year and I sure like that area. One of these years I am going to load up the truck and take 6 months to see that part of the country. I like the folks in that part of the country and there are little gems everywhere. Like the bombing memorial in OKC……it sure made an impact.
Regards,
Mark
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Pat
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Re: Vinyl Horse Fencing
[re: mfaley]
08/18/05 08:11 AM
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Working stock from horseback is not only picturesque and sometimes fun, but depending on terrain and brush it can allow you to "git 'er done" when a macho belchfire 500 4 wheeler can't get there.
I have accrued some saddle time on a cutting horse. Let me rephrase that... I have been up on cutting horses but not always firmly in the saddle I don't always read the terrain and the stock's intent the same way the horse does and so when I anticipate a turn and begin to lean in to it and the horse goes the other way on a dead run, I have gotten a little light in the saddle. Never came off but came close enough to force me to re-evaluate my approach.
I think there are two schools of thought (at least two) on actually working stock with a cutting horse as opposed to a contest in a ring. I am of the opinion that once the horse is shown what animal you want and where you want to take it, let it do its own thing like on auto pilot until or unless you have need to exert control. I don't know what percentage of folks think I'm wrong but in general my experience is less than a good horse's and I can't often find fault with the results I got.
I haven't been on a horse for 10 years but I remember which end points in the direction of advance. A friend of mine leased a 2500 acre valley along the US/Mexican border just west of Tecate, BC Mexico (Yes, that Tecate of beer fame) The Mexicans used more riders in their operations but we technically advanced gringos still found use for horses.
Along there, much of the border wasn't fenced and was often ignored by riders from both sides. At roundup there were "prisoner exchanges" where both sides returned the other folks beef. The honor system was still working then. The US Border Patrol officers would set up on a hill at one of their favorite observation posts and watch all this innocent cross border activity and never bother anyone. They were looking for smugglers of illegal substances and people.
Oh, by the way... although the Cooley Camp employs a considerable number of folks they have 10 full time resident families with their own houses in addition to the bunk houses for others. A fair numbr live "off ranch" and commute to work. the ranch is close to good roads and has "open to the public" sales.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
Edited by Pat (08/18/05 08:14 AM)
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Bird
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Re: Vinyl Horse Fencing
[re: Pat]
08/18/05 08:47 AM
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In reply to:
not always firmly in the saddle
I've been there.  When I was a kid and had a plain old cheap untrained horse, but gentle and easy to ride, an uncle (farmer, rancher northwest of Oklahoma City) bought a pretty sorrel mare. It was the first horse my older cousin had been around; he didn't even know how to get the saddle and bridle on the horse, and the uncle wasn't around at the time, so I took the opportunity to show off a little. I saddled that mare and took off across the pasture at a gallop, intending to make a wide circle. And when I touched the rein to her neck, she doubled back so fast, it left me hanging out there in air hanging onto the saddle horn with one hand. I stayed with her, but dropped one rein; terribly embarrassing at the time.
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Pat
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Re: Vinyl Horse Fencing
[re: Bird]
08/18/05 09:29 AM
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Bird, Yet more parallel experiences for us to mutually chalk up...
When I was a senior in highschool I dated one of my math teachers daughters, a bit. His son joined the navy leaving behind a registered quarter horse mare that was getting a bit green from not being worked. He invited me to come out and exercise her. The first time out she really didn't want to leave the barn/paddock and go afield. She fought the reins for nrearly half a mile but I was determined to show her who was boss. When I turned her to head back she wheeled around in a wink and accelerated to full speed in about three high G force leaps. I just managed to stay on board but happened to notice that my high school class ring (very important to a highschool senior) was just then falling off my finger. All that working with the reins had pushed it off my finger. Without a thought I threw my right leg over her head and bailed off. I hit at an angle and skied to a stop, not falling down. I retraced my skid marks and found the ring.
She was waiting for me at the barn. No one but me and the horse witnessed this tableu, luckily for my delicate teenaged ego. I was better prepared after that. Apparently the son had alternately been walkiing her across the pasture and running her back and I unwittingly repeated the activity, hence the lightning quick spin around and max acceleration run back across the field.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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mfaley
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Re: Vinyl Horse Fencing
[re: Pat]
08/23/05 07:20 PM
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It's widely laughed at every Thanksgiving that, when we were young, I single handedly taught my sister cranky Morgan mare that running full blast through a local apple orchard would scrap people out of the saddle. I am not sure how it could tell exactly what branches would clear the horn but still clear the saddle.
Lately it feels like the only difference is that now when I come out of the saddle its accompanied with a trip to the doctor to learn that, once again, I have broken a rib or two or three.
I sure need to quit making those sorts of memories......
Mark
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Pat
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Re: Vinyl Horse Fencing
[re: mfaley]
08/25/05 08:36 AM
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Mark, I had an older cousin in Mississippi whose horse my sister was riding. Long reins, one dropped, horse stepped on it at a run and threw sister off onto road and gave her a concussion. After returning from the hospital visiting her I hopped on the horse and went out jumping creeks. This horse knew the run under the tree trick too but I leaned way down next to his neck and only got a few scrapes and then ran and jumped him a lot more. This mount was a handful for a kid but was a real performer for my cousin. I fared better than my older sister.
I recall an old horse with about 4-5 little kids on it, bareback, just walking around the yard, parading for the parents. It walked out into a farm pond and layed down. Lucily It wasn't my turn yet.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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mfaley
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Re: Vinyl Horse Fencing
[re: Pat]
08/25/05 04:23 PM
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“I recall an old horse with about 4-5 little kids on it, bareback, just walking around the yard, parading for the parents.”
It’s amazing to me how many horses know when it’s a kid on their back and how quickly they can become great babysitters. I like watching a horse with a youngster on its back trying it darnedest to figure out what the kid is really trying to tell it……only to give up and slowly plod along. Watching something like that on a nice summer evening is a little slice of heaven.
Mark
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Bird
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Re: Vinyl Horse Fencing
[re: Pat]
08/25/05 07:05 PM
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In reply to:
I recall an old horse with about 4-5 little kids on it, bareback, just walking around the yard
Pat, I don't recall us ever having more than 3 at a time on a horse, but somewhere around here I have a picture of my dad and his 3 sisters on a horse like that when they were little kids just north of Ardmore.
And while I can remember very little about when I was a toddler, I do remember my grandmother putting me in the horses' feed trough while she milked a cow. My grandfather farmed with a team of horses; a bay mare named Nellie and a gray mare named Snip. They were both very gentle, but Nellie bit me (accidentally, I'm sure because I was feeding them out of my hand), and I did a lot of yelling for my grandmother to get me out of that trough. And from that day on, I liked Snip, but was scared to get near Nellie.
My grandparents moved to town when I was 3, so I don't know how old I was when Nellie bit me, but even after they moved to town, they still had chickens and a milk cow in town, and my granddad kept the farm, too. I was 5 when I saw my granddad putting a saddle on Snip one day, so I hot footed it out there to see if I could go with him, and he put me up behind him, but that was when I discovered that wherever we were going, he was going to be leading Nellie, and that's when I bailed out. I learned later that where he was going was to sell those horses.
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Pat
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Re: Vinyl Horse Fencing
[re: mfaley]
08/27/05 07:46 AM
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Some horses are great with kids and will make a well practiced circuit or just follow others if in a group and the kid(s) just have to sit there and enjoy. Other animals are pranksters and know they can get away with behaviors with kids that would NOT be acceptable with an adult. I have come across horses that "TEST" the rider and will perform well for a rider but act out with just a "passenger."
Pat
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Pat
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Re: Vinyl Horse Fencing
[re: Bird]
08/27/05 08:00 AM
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Bird, My grandfather on my mom's side was a farmer. My mom was born on the farm near Bray, Oklahoma (close to Marlow.) He never owned an internal combustion engine or drove a motorized vehicle in his life. He worked the farm with a pair of horses that were NEVER ridden. The quickest way for my mom or any of her 4 siblings to get in "Dutch" was to even suggest riding one of the horses. They were what fed the family and could not be used for toys. She said that she often thought he cared more for those horses than some of the kids but realized later it was those horses that fed the family and if there were to be any problem with thte horses it would cause severe economic hardship, beyond the typical circumstances of a relatively poor sharecropper during the great depression.
By the way Bird, were you ever amused by HOW WRONG John Steinbeck got it in the "Grapes of Wrath?" His stated location in eastern Oklahoma was never really such a desperate part of the dust bowl but was nearly a green paradise compared to western Oklahoma and the pan handle. Odd how movies and their poetic liscense get substituted for history and entire generations get sadly misinformed.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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Bird
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Re: Vinyl Horse Fencing
[re: Pat]
08/27/05 09:30 AM
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Gosh, Pat, it's been so long since I read Grapes of Wrath that I don't even remember just where his stated location was. But, yes, there's a considerable difference in eastern and western Oklahoma.
And I can't recall ever seeing my grandfather ride a horse except for that one time. I do remember him talking about the "sport" of riding while chasing jackrabbits and coyotes with dogs when he was a youngster.
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Pat
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Re: Vinyl Horse Fencing
[re: Bird]
08/28/05 08:05 AM
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BIrd, The movie version of the "Grapes of Wrath" is one of the primary sources of "information" that shapes the general impression many folks have of Oklahoma. It is almost as accurate of a way of learning about a state as watching "The Wizard of OZ" to learn about Kansas.
Western (shoot'em up) movies supposedly set in Oklahoma or the Indian Territories prior to statehood frequently have large high mountains or even snow capped mountains in the scenic shots. I'm sure you recall all those magnificent ranges prior to their inexplicable loss (can't seem to find them on maps or by driving or flying.)
While searching these days one may see lots of horse property fenced with vinyl fencing, though.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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Re: Vinyl Horse Fencing
[re: Pat]
08/28/05 10:09 AM
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Yeah, Pat, I think I've been in all the Oklahoma mountains and never did find those snowcapped peaks. Guess I just wasn't a very good explorer. 
And I know where there are quite a few very nice looking vinyl fences down here in our area; sure look good, but I don't recall seeing any livestock behind any of them. They all seem to be for decorative purposes only.
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Pat
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Re: Vinyl Horse Fencing
[re: Bird]
08/28/05 10:37 AM
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Bird, I see lots and lots of horses behind vinyl and some cattle. A few barbed wire scars don't seem to degrade the McDonalds experience and it is cheaper if you have cheap help for maint and chasing "out" stock.
I don't think the boys into stockers would be into vinyl. I eventually expect to take out the barbed wire in front of the new house and extend the "lawn" a hundred yards or two toward the north to "capture" some big pecan trees and fence it with vinyl. I will go with the price performance numbers but expect to buy less expensive vinyl and supplement it on the "stock side" with a hot wire. I don't see me getting into "stockers" so I don't need BUFFALO rated fence.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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egon
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Re: Vinyl Horse Fencing
[re: Pat]
08/28/05 04:07 PM
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even snow capped mountains
Global warming!!
Egon
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Pat
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Re: Vinyl Horse Fencing
[re: egon]
08/28/05 05:19 PM
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Global warming... so much for the snow but what happened to the big mountains?
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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