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qtkitty
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Reged: 04/15/05
Posts: 27
Loc: About 45 minutes East of Charlotte,NC
Alpaca's worth the Price?
      04/17/05 02:16 AM

Yes, i will admit it i am drawn to them they are just TOO CUTE!! BUT are they worth the begining price. I have been reading and researching and reading. Everything that i have read has said that alpaca is well worth the investment if you breed them. Is that really true if is it just a way for people to get you to buy their animals?


Alpaca fiber its self is only about $30 a pound ( given this is the lowest i found for a "coarser" grade i believe) and an alpaca can be shorn once a year and give 3-10 pounds of fiber. So that is basically $150 a year.

They say that a herd of up to 10 alpaca can live on one acre, although some articals say differently. They also are easy to clean up after since they go in 1-3 small areas in their pasture. Start up cost according to Alpaca Owners and Breeders Association are something like this:

Acquisition of one pregnant female and one young female $ 35,000
Insurance on animals, one year $ 1,100
Equipment $ 500
Small barn and fences $ 30,000
One year's feed $ 300
Veterinarian and miscellaneous reserve $ 1,100

TOTAL
$ 68,000
[Costs are rough estimates for comparison purposes only. Actual costs may be higher or lower than figures depicted, depending on a wide variety of factors such as geographic location, available pasture, climactic conditions, health of animals, etc.]

Sounds to me like the only way to make any profit at all from Alpacas is to breed them. As i have been reading i have read that "medium quality, medium cost " females can be the beginings of the bulk of the herd and then a "high quality, higher cost" male or a stud servicing with a "high quality, higher cost" male can result in "show quality" babies which will fetch higher dollar amounts then their mothers.

Females have 11.5 month pregnancy, so that would be a year til a baby was even born then weaning at closer to 6 months. If it is a female it would mean keeping it to breed which it will take 12-18 months for them to be old enough to mate. I guess over 5-10 years that would build into a profitable herd.

Then there are also tax benifits.

I still do not know if it is actually profitable though, in terms of farming are they profitable. And can you get people to buy them once you are looking to sell?

Michelle

Just a country girl at heart wanting that country life back and the farm of her dreams.

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RichZ
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Reged: 09/12/02
Posts: 558
Loc: Cambridge, New York in beautiful Washington County, next to Vermont
Re: Alpaca's worth the Price? new [re: qtkitty]
      04/17/05 09:13 AM

Michelle, in my opinion, alpacas are a shell game. My wife and I looked into them. With all the ads telling you how much money you can make, it's very tempting. But check out the market for the fiber. There is none. They say how you can sell the fiber for big bucks, but check to see if there is a market near you. In all likelyhood there is none.

The only way people make money with alpacas is by selling the crias (babies) to other people who are convinced that they'll make big bucks. That's why I call it a shell game. Since there is no real market for the fiber, this business of selling crias to other people to make millions will eventually bottom out.

It's sort of like the emu trade several years ago. Emu eggs were going for hundreds of dollars apiece and chicks were going for thousands. When it turned out that there actually was very little market for the emu meat and eggs, the whole shell game just bottomed out. I'll let Bird explain what happened to the emu market, he saw the whole thing first hand in Texas.

I think what happend with emus will eventually happen with alpacas.

The same thing happend with llamas. Everyone said how much their fiber went for, but there was no market. Now you can get llamas for hundreds instead of thousands of dollars. I intend to get a llama this year for a guard animal for my goat herd. I know several farms where I can pick up a good guard animal for no more than $500.

If you think alpacas are cute (and so do my wife and I), save your money and wait a while. The prices will come way down. We'll probably get a few as pets when the prices come down.

Rich
"What a long strange trip it's been."

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ObedienceGoldens
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Reged: 04/15/05
Posts: 26
Loc: New York
Re: Alpaca's worth the Price? new [re: RichZ]
      04/17/05 09:38 AM

Rich is right..
There is a big Alpaca farm here in NY.. We went up to talk to them..
Sounds really good.. then we did some research....
No fiber mills around here

There is absolutely no prophet in the fleece even at the high prices today.
Say it brings $40.00 a pound. You only get three to 5 lbs of fleece from each animal.
Figure out the cost of feed and vet bills and supplies.
Not to mention the investment in barn and pasture and you will see that there is no way
to come close to even breaking even.



"Old Enough To Know Better,Young Enough To Learn"

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Bird
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Reged: 09/12/02
Posts: 1694
Loc: Corinth, TX, USA
Re: Alpaca's worth the Price? new [re: RichZ]
      04/17/05 09:47 AM

Yep, Rich, some folks just killed off their emus to get rid of them, and some were known to just open the gates and turn them loose to get rid of them.

Personally, I liked raising rabbits, but you have a similar problem with finding a market for them. I happen to be quite fond of rabbit meat, but how often do you see it in a grocery store? I started by buying a buck and two does, eventually had 15 cages and raised over 300 rabbits. I sold a few and ate a lot of them. I could sell everything I had to feed stores in the month before Easter, but very little market the rest of the year. The folks I bought my first breeding stock from said a truck used to come regularly from a processing plant in San Antonio to pick up the live rabbits, but then they went out of business still owing the breeder over $3,000. So now their only market is selling to kids for the 4-H and FFA. You aren't going to sell enough to make any money that way.

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qtkitty
Member

Reged: 04/15/05
Posts: 27
Loc: About 45 minutes East of Charlotte,NC
Re: Alpaca's worth the Price? new [re: Bird]
      04/17/05 12:38 PM

I thought that was weird to that they were trying to say the fibers would make the profit .. but no it is the breeding that does it.. of course neutered males go for $1000 some times for 2 of them, but the $300 a year price tag and the Maybe $150 a year you might make on just fibers does not make since, unless you are making clothes out of them, but then Heck just buy the fiber. Geeze.

Thats what i was thinking .. i would rather just stick with my rabbit plan. Basically they say you can make a profit with in a year if you live with in an hour of a rabbit processor( i am in the south east now .. but the closest processiong plant is 2 hours away which does $1 for fryers(4.5-6lb) and i believe $0.60 for roasters( 6lb+) not to mention that they are looking for growers because they can not meet the demand). Of course not having a farm yet leaves me at an advantage to relocate where there is a good demand. From everything i have read the rabbit market is getting good in the South East, because of chef and high end resturants. Gas prices now would make it not worth it unless you had a big shipment going and were very very close to the processing plant.

With rabbits it seems open to more diversification as well so it seems with the meat, feet, wool, furs, and show/pet market.

Pasture raised Deer are the same way there isn't really a market for them except in high end resturants. Supposedly you can make good money off of them if you can find a market as well.

Michelle

Just a country girl at heart wanting that country life back and the farm of her dreams.

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Stoneheartfarm
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Reged: 10/10/02
Posts: 792
Loc: West Central Michigan
Re: Alpaca's worth the Price? new [re: qtkitty]
      04/17/05 01:50 PM

The people we talked to did not say that the fiber would make the profit. What they said was "The fiber is highly prized by home spinners."

Since we don't know any home spinners and weavers, I don't know if this statement is true or not. But, even if they DO prize it, that doesn't mean they'll pay anything for it.

My guess is that you've got a few years yet before the fad fizzles out. Simple supply and demand. When there are enough breeders to supply the number of Crias desired, the market will sag and the breeders will take less in order to sell animals. Eventually, you'll be able to buy that 10k "value" alpaca for a couple of hundred bucks.

I couldn't find any market for the meat, fiber or anything other than the Crias. I talked with one breeder you has been picking up "rescue" animals to build a herd. Buying some at auctions for under $1,000.00. She's lost a couple to illness, but the rest have done alright. I did find out that there are different colors and types of fur and what is in today may be out tomorrow.

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Pat
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Reged: 09/15/02
Posts: 4904
Loc: SouthCentral Oklahoma
Re: Alpaca's worth the Price? new [re: Stoneheartfarm]
      04/17/05 10:17 PM

Alpacas, especially the young are cute. Lets see: llamas first then alpacas... I see the trend!!!

GET IN ON THE GRUND FLOOR FOLKS.....It is the next big craze (no not glow in the dark shoop shoop whistling hoola hoops...)

Yet another pyramid sheme. Viacuna (sp?) Yet another South American camelid, a cousin of the llama, alpaca, and camel. Remember you heard it here first folks!!!

There are a few emus living in the wild in Oklahma. One less now that the novelty wore out after several months at a friends farm. Emu just showed up and wanted to be fed. Got very demanding about being fed. Got very nasty about being fed, Got very dead.

Pat

"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"


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wingnut
Gold Member

Reged: 09/12/02
Posts: 260
Loc: mid-Michigan
Re: Alpaca's worth the Price? new [re: qtkitty]
      04/18/05 08:22 AM

Michelle .... the current alpaca "fad" echos that of the ostrich and the emu, and other exotics.
Look at the initial ostrich scenario:
To justify the extremely high prices for "breeding pairs", the seller points out what eggs are worth, what artists pay for eggs, how much a pair of boots with ostrich skin sells for, how every part of the bird can be sold - feathers for hats and art, eggs for crafts, etc, etc, etc ... and then they tell you how much the meat retails for. Oh, and how much you can sell breeding pairs for...
So ... you check it out and can't find a single person paying $50 for an egg, find almost nobody selling the meat 'cause nobody's buying, find out that you can indeed pay $1200 for a pair of full quill booots ... but you can also buy them at fire sale prices .... and pretty soon the math tells you that you will NEVER get close to breaking even, much less making a profit.
As Pat said ... if you are the first one into this ponzi scheme ... you should do OK ... as long as you also remember to get OUT before the saturation point gets close.

My wife also thinks they're the cutest thing since miniture horses were invented ... but I quickly put my foot down. Sure, if you go to the state fairs you'll see handcrafted alpaca stuff for sale .... but how many are buying? I guess if you can get one/some cheap, and like to shear, spin and card the wool yourself, and enjoy making things .... it might be a fun hobby. But, as a "career" .... you're coming to the gate way too late as the saturation point is behind us already.

pete

it's a shame that common sense isn't
http://www.dahlhausminiatures.com


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qtkitty
Member

Reged: 04/15/05
Posts: 27
Loc: About 45 minutes East of Charlotte,NC
Re: Alpaca's worth the Price? new [re: wingnut]
      04/19/05 01:29 AM

I think it would definately be interesting to have one as a pet/side hobby when they are a hundred or a few hundred.

They are definately cuter then Llamas * shudders * those guys can be mean cusses !!

Michelle

Just a country girl at heart wanting that country life back and the farm of her dreams.

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wingnut
Gold Member

Reged: 09/12/02
Posts: 260
Loc: mid-Michigan
Re: Alpaca's worth the Price? new [re: qtkitty]
      04/19/05 08:05 AM

Oh, they are cute, for sure. I'll just hope that it's a while before they get down to the "few hundred" mark .... the miniature horses keep me busy and poor enough for now!

it's a shame that common sense isn't
http://www.dahlhausminiatures.com


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PaladinZ06
New Member

Reged: 04/19/05
Posts: 3
Re: Alpaca's worth the Price? new [re: qtkitty]
      04/20/05 12:27 AM

I'm certainly in prime alpaca territory. I am still getting my feet wet with them, and only have 3 for the last 7 months or so. That being said, here are some tidbits from my research and experience:

You don't *need* a barn for alpacas if you live where it is warm. You will need something like a tractor shed, carport, or some other kind of thing they can hide under.

You don't *need* to feed alpacas any fancy food whatsoever. We tend to think "prize animals need prize food" but all alpacas need is plain grass. Not even nutritional grass - just plain grass. It is what they are built to eat. The fiber stays thinner (read: better). Fat alpaca=fat fiber.

Alpacas should be sheared before it gets too hot. Fortunately where I live it doesn't get that bad really so they missed a year of shearing. I am shearing them soon though.

An alpaca ranch near me sold one (stud) last year for $114,000

OTOH I bought 3 boys (ungelded) for $900 ($300 each) from cattle farmers that thought they'd try them out. I think they thought they were boring.

The fiber is wonderful stuff. It really is. You can make a little money selling it if you can amass enough of them, but you are ultimately competing with South American imports - they have way way more.

In South America it is typically "Logan's Run" for alpacas. They get 7 years of life and are killed for meat. They also have a lot higher cria mortality rates. I have 2 teddy bears made from alpaca hide and they are LUXURIOUSLY soft. (but I can't let the dogs near em because they know they used to be animal skin)

Even bad alpaca fiber is better than most cashmere. This is undeniably true. Visit a farm and ask to touch (if the alpaca will let you) the oldest alpaca they have. It will be very soft.

Male alpacas will fight with one another, especially gelded. They have a linear ranking system. No chief and everyone else subordinates, more like #1 through N.

It is not the size of the alpaca in the fight. It is the size of the fight in the alpaca. This is true at the 60+ alpaca ranch down the road. There is a wee little guy that will boss around ANY of the other alpacas.

I've never heard of an alpaca spitting at anyone ever. People have been caught in cross-fires on rare occasion though. They are more gentle and timid than llamas by a long shot. They are faster than they look.

Crias are susceptible to being eaten by coyotes, wolves, wildcats, wild dogs. A llama, donkey or great pyrenees will do wonders. You can have a llama AND a great pyrenees but anyone will tell you donkeys and dogs don't mix.

Mountain lions and bears will go after adult alpacas. Then it is definitely good to have a llama AND a great pyrenees.

(back to the economy of them)

It IS a shell game of sorts. Some people are making great money off of the alpacas. The economy is probably not going to implode quite like ostrich or emu because there is an asthetic beauty to them that people will continue to value. The market will certainly fluctuate and I wouldn't go dumping money into it to turn it into a serious income personally. If I can make $1000 of profit a year off of them - I'll be more than happy.

They do need occasional worming medicine, nail trimming, and the males often need their battle teeth cut. I am going to have all of that done at the same time as well as shear them while they are drugged. Mine are decent sized males and won't just sit still and be sheared. They are too strong. They have to be bascially tied down. Calmer ones can be sheared in a squeeze chute.

They don't make much noise - unless they fight and then you'll get maybe upt ot 20 minutes of alien screaming. I don't think the sound carries that well but your neighbors will know. In the summer for me it has happened maybe 1 time every 2 weeks. No big deal.

Alpacas don't rip out the grass like horses do. Their poop doesn't stink and looks like rabbit pellets. Even fresh stuff is only stinky if you are standing in it and is still way less odiferous than any one of my dogs' piles. It is great fertilizer. They pick spots to pile their poop in. Mine picked basically a line extending down the middle of the pasture from the far fence to the barn. Right now it looks like I spilled a line of fertilizer down the middle.

In summation: If you want critters that don't need a lot of attention, eat but don't destroy grass (aka save you from mowing), can provide you with some very soft fiber, and are generally friendly they are great. Unless you are going to take a breeding program very seriously and show your alpacas all over the place, then just buy bargain basement alpacas and be happy with them. I've never heard of an alpaca that was un-manageable. NEVER TAKE A FREE LLAMA. There are lots of nice llamas, but there are also a fair number that are only really appropriate to use as natural mowers.

Best of luck!






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drpepper
New Member

Reged: 09/21/02
Posts: 8
Loc: Texas Panhandle
Re: Alpaca's worth the Price? new [re: PaladinZ06]
      04/20/05 05:45 AM

For what's it worth. I saw an ad in our local "Thrifty Nickel" last week. Nine llamas for $1400.00. Haven't seen any running loose as of yet. In the past, I've seen emu's and pot bellied pigs that people just turned out.

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qtkitty
Member

Reged: 04/15/05
Posts: 27
Loc: About 45 minutes East of Charlotte,NC
Re: Alpaca's worth the Price? new [re: drpepper]
      04/20/05 02:51 PM

YAY maybe soon they will be as cheap as a sheep WOOHOO

Michelle

Just a country girl at heart wanting that country life back and the farm of her dreams.

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twstanley
Gold Member

Reged: 09/27/02
Posts: 260
Loc: NE of Kansas City, Missouri
Re: Alpaca's worth the Price? new [re: qtkitty]
      04/21/05 10:04 AM

Our horses don't destroy grass, neither do our cattle. I think the cases where you see cattle and horses on bare ground is where their were to many animals in to small a space for to long and the grass was eaten/trampled to dust.



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Pat
Veteran Member

Reged: 09/15/02
Posts: 4904
Loc: SouthCentral Oklahoma
Re: Alpaca's worth the Price? new [re: twstanley]
      05/01/05 09:13 PM

A GOOGLE search on camelid has about 29,000 hits. About all you would ever want to know about alpacas and lamas (and camels and vicunas and guanacos.

GET IN ON THE GROUND FLOOR!!! be the first in your area to breed viacunas and or guanacos, two under represented (in the US or Canada) members of South Americas camelid group (cousins of the llama, and alpaca and of course the camel too.) You can get in before prices shoot up or the market is saturated, breed up a goodly sized herd than when the TV ads start hawking them you are positioned to capitalize big time!

Also... All camelids are similar, in having 37 pairs of chromosomes. All of the New World camelids can be crossed to each other to produce fertile offspring. So you can cross in various manners and percentages between llamas, vicunas, guanacos, and alpacas and have unique offerings to sell and sidestep competition (for a while.)

Pat

"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"


Edited by Pat (05/01/05 10:11 PM)

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egon
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Reged: 09/12/02
Posts: 3031
Loc: Nova Scotia,Canada
Re: Alpaca's worth the Price? new [re: Pat]
      05/01/05 10:40 PM

.
Bactrian Camel .


Don't see many of these around. They should excell in cold climate.

A few people do make a living with Bison.

Egon

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qtkitty
Member

Reged: 04/15/05
Posts: 27
Loc: About 45 minutes East of Charlotte,NC
Re: Alpaca's worth the Price? new [re: Pat]
      05/02/05 12:58 PM

I looked up the Vicunas, they look like mini alpaca. And Vincunas are the wild relatives to alpacas. The fleece is supposedly 13-14 microns from wild Vicunas, where as Aplaca have 15-45 micron hair.

pictures:
http://www.glaa-alpaca.org/news/vicuna/vicunas.html

Guanacos are the wild relatives to llamas.


Pretty interesting * nods*

Michelle

Just a country girl at heart wanting that country life back and the farm of her dreams.

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Pat
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Reged: 09/15/02
Posts: 4904
Loc: SouthCentral Oklahoma
Re: Alpaca's worth the Price? new [re: egon]
      05/04/05 09:08 PM

Egon, I noted that some of the web sites for the South American (and I don't mean Texas!) camelids are for Canadian breeders.

pat

"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"


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