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opie744
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Equinesaver- anyone using?
12/14/04 05:04 PM
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Has anyone used Equinesaver, any feelings good or bad one this supplement?
its 5 o'clock somewhere
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mfaley
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Re: Equinesaver- anyone using?
[re: opie744]
12/14/04 06:02 PM
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I dont have any real knowledge of that product though they sure seem to stuff a lot of things in it.
Is there something specific you are trying to accomplish?
Mark
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LazyJ_Arabians
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Re: Equinesaver- anyone using?
[re: opie744]
12/14/04 07:17 PM
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Never heard of it, certainly an all-in-one product. I'll warn you to take note of MSM/DMSO ingredient. The MSM is a more refined version of the old DMSO compound used for years. I would stay away from DMSO, too many links to liver and kidney damage. MSM is pretty much a wonder drug, a proven circulatory aid(basis of a myriad of benefits) and an anti-oxidant. I've used it for spells when my bad knee almost cripples me. But it comes with a caveat, it increases circulation so well it becomes a major factor with administering other medicines, antibiotics, antitoxins, wormers, etc. I learned this by losing a mare after my vet gave her precautionary antivenom for a moccasin bite and she fell over dead in my arms. He immediately asked me if she was on MSM, yes. I asked my GP doctor about it later and he told me several horror stories about patients who mixed MSM with heart meds and went into a tyrade about how the FDA should take control of such unregulated supplements.
I customize a feed and supplement program for each of my horses. Youngsters and expecting mares get vitamins, hoof problems get biotin, my old stud gets joint supplements. I've tried many, usually cheaper brands and I always come back to Farnam products, they've always provided obvious results. Vitaplus, Mare Plus, Horseshoer's Secret, Ivercare wormer, Go Max is great for working horses, and FluidFlex. There's dozens of joint supplements and I've personally chewed and drank many of them out of desire to relieve my own arthritic pains and for the sake of my aging dog and stallion. I'll guarantee there isn't a morning us three old men don't take a shot of Fluidflex to keep us lube'd up!
Get a complete nutritionally balanced feed(I'm sold on Purina products, Strategy or Omolene), mix it with a sweet grain if he needs more protein, fat, and calories, feed plenty of quality hay, and address supplements categorically as needed sums up my advice.
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LazyJ_Arabians
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It's not a supplement so I forgot to tout another of my favorite Farnam products, Hoofsaver. My horses were plagued by brittle and cracked hoofs during long, dry spells until I started using this product regularly. My farrier was awed by the results of my weekly applications, made his job much easier. Also its the best hand lotion you'll ever use, even better than Udder Cream. Hint, it works best if you heat it up a little before really working it in.
OK, I'm through now. Someone tells us about Equinesaver?
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mfaley
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"I learned this by losing a mare after my vet gave her precautionary antivenom for a moccasin bite and she fell over dead in my arms."
I am sure sorry to hear about that.  I did not even think that sort of reaction would be likely and thats something I will have to remember. Thanks for sharing that.
We used Purina for a long time but when a new feed store opened up in the area we won a half dozen bags of the Nutrena Empower. What a difference! Great hair coat, plenty of energy without being hot, adds weight and good quality. It seems to make the most difference at the shows.
Given the chance you might consider trying it though your needs might be different.
By the way.....I assume you rotate wormers. If you do, what is your rotation like?
Thanks,
Mark
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LazyJ_Arabians
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Re: Equinesaver- anyone using?
[re: mfaley]
12/15/04 03:40 PM
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I only worm four times a year. I give the entire tube for each dosing, disregarding the weight scale which for an Arab is significant. Ivermectin at the end of March, June, and Sept, then Quest at the end of December. Foals get Panacur according to weight once a month up until 9 months. Newly acquired horses get a Panacur Powerpak 5 day treatment while in quarentine. This is a program prescribed by my vet and supported by many fecal samples so keep in mind different climates and environments will affect your mileage. I'm also a big believer in manure management and pasture rotation. I like the Ivercare ivermectin because the applicator is nifty.
I think I've mentioned on here before a great trick for worming horses. Right before you worm them fill an old plunger with applesauce and give it to them, then get the real wormer and dip the end in the sauce. They'll be eager for it and are less likely to fight you or spit it back out.
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opie744
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Man, I can always count on you guys! I just want over-all health, he's older so I thought a supplement wouldn't hurt. Forgot to ask the vet(of course) and was trying not to bother her. Plus, they have thier own supplements, as I look around, seem sorta pricey. I have heard from others that they push thier own. 
its 5 o'clock somewhere
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LazyJ_Arabians
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Purina has been a trusted product in my family for three generations. I've seen too many horses, dogs, and cats live full healthy lives to question its quality. It'd be like stepping on grandpa's grave to consider anything else.
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Bird
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In reply to:
Purina has been a trusted product in my family
Absolutely no scientific knowledge on my part, but I'm the same way. We used Purina for raising rabbits and our dogs got Purina One. 
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opie744
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Purina has a Senior horse food? If I went to the feedstore, can I ask for it by Purina Senior for horses?
its 5 o'clock somewhere
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LazyJ_Arabians
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Re: Equinesaver- anyone using?
[re: opie744]
12/15/04 11:08 PM
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Purina Equine Senior, beet pulp based, my 25yo stud has been on a 10# a day ration for 10 years. I buy it by the ton twice a year. He gets ridden alot, most horses wouldn't need that much.
You get the idea, spend your money on a good chow that has the basics built in, baseline the ration to the chart on the bag, adjust it up or down gradually as needed using body fat as a guide, and then figure out if you need supplements for specific problems. Always change a horses diet as gradually as possible. Consider custom mixing Senior with a 10-12% oat based sweet feed at 3 to 1 or so to economize. Make sure whatever you might mix does not have corn, corn is tough for any horse to digest, much less an older one.
How old is this horse and what is his current diet?
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opie744
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I'm glad we talked , his prior owner had him on rolled oats and cracked corn, a coffee can of each. I wanted to get him on Senior food so I slowly changed to 1 coffee can of senior and 1/2 cracked corn and 1/2 rolled oats. He does need alittle more weight and I was told to worm him. Getting the stuff today.
its 5 o'clock somewhere
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mfaley
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Its amazing to me how many people dont quarentine new horses and just throw them in a pasture. In the long run that seems like more work than just seperating them for a while.
We had a big old paint horse that hated wormer so we put molassas on the end. I sort of like the apple sauce idea as well. Have to give that a try.....
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opie744
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Re: Equinesaver- anyone using?
[re: opie744]
12/16/04 02:02 PM
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He's our only horse so he must have come to us that way, unless there is another way to get it.
So Lazy J, is there human Fluidflex?
My grandma had terrible arthritic pains too, god bless her.
Or do you boys just line them up?
I wish she would have known about something that might have worked, the pain took her before god did.
Take care.
its 5 o'clock somewhere
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opie744
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Re: Equinesaver- anyone using?
[re: opie744]
12/16/04 05:06 PM
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I thought of another question, when I get that feed, do I mix it slowly in w/ the feed I have been using? should I slowly mix out the cracked corn but keep the rolled oats?
its 5 o'clock somewhere
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LazyJ_Arabians
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Re: Equinesaver- anyone using?
[re: opie744]
12/16/04 10:01 PM
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Corn and oats. Cripes, thats like feeding your family pasta and potatoes every meal.
I'd love to say drop the corn today but unfortunately you can't. The fungi inherent in corn cause changes in the gut's enzyme characteristics and its those enzymes you must not throw out of balance. Lets say mix a third of each and gradually replace the corn with the senior until you get to two parts senior and one part oats. Oats are nutritious, but they must be cooked to make the nutrients fully available to the horse. Rolled is good but you want to make sure they've been steamed also. Ideally they should be steamed and crimped.
Overwhelmed? I think your horse is in for some noticeable improvements in his health.
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opie744
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This is what I love about this board, invaluable infomation.  Thank you, being a newbie I need this. I will begin doing this tomorrow. I have to say, his coat already looks better w/ the every other day brushing and adding the senior feed I have. Always striving for better, we all want to feel our best. I'll get him there. THANK YOU!!
its 5 o'clock somewhere
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opie744
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Re: Equinesaver- anyone using?
[re: opie744]
12/16/04 10:18 PM
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Owning my own horse has been a childhood dream and when I was young I surrounded myself in the hopes of it, then there came a time where it didn't seem possible so I let it go. Now, a reality, I feel like I'm playing the catch-up game. I read tons of books too but alot of this stuff just isn't in there or they hit you w/ so much tech. stuff I have a hard time making heads or tails. AND I am smart, educated lady, but WOW! For some its a lifestyle they have had the benefit of living, thats what I want to feel like in a few years and give to my daughters if they choose to love the dream too.
its 5 o'clock somewhere
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mfaley
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Re: Equinesaver- anyone using?
[re: opie744]
12/20/04 01:35 PM
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Reading your post I started thinking about how have learned what I know (as depressingly limited as it is). What strikes me is that the best way to learn is find people that can help you DO things. Some of the fairly simple things you can learn and develop a really good basic foundation by reading.
But so many things are really best learned by DOING with the help of someone more knowledgeable. Funny little things like:
1. How well does a saddle fit
2. Where does a saddle sit
3. How tight to tighten a cinch
4. How to tell if your horse is off.
Then there are harder things like:
1. How do you collect up a horse
2. How do you get them to separate their feet from each other
3. How do you get a horse to be polite and respectful while setting new shoes
4. Knowing when your horse is tired/sick as compared to run down (physical vs mental)
Then there are some of the really hard things like:
1. fixing bad habits started by either you or someone else
2. getting horses to do most things willingly
3. Being fair and firm while knowing where that line is with different horses
Find someone you can spend time with, around horses, that can help you learn how to do things. Maybe a local college has a horsemanship program, maybe there is a local club you can join, and perhaps you can find someone’s Grandpa who was raised using horses. If you can attend a clinic from a good horseman it might help you feel more comfortable and confident. Based on your posts you have heart and desire which is great. Now temper those two with patience and you will really be on your way. It sure sounds like you are doing a good job with your horse.
One thing to think about when you are around horses…..Soft and slow hands will get you there a lot sooner than any other way.
Mark
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opie744
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Re: Equinesaver- anyone using?
[re: mfaley]
12/20/04 01:51 PM
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Thanks loads, my trainer has been a great help and she gave me her Farrier and Vet, so I hope I'm on th road to becoming more knowledgeable. I'm going to try to look up one of those horsemanship classes you refered to. That sounds like fun.
You and Lazy J have been great helps and like you said earlier, most horse people really want and do help! It is good to find good people around.
its 5 o'clock somewhere
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