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rookie
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Horses outdoors only?
06/19/04 02:22 PM
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Hey, there! We are getting two horses - 3-year-old quarter horse geldings. As far as I know, they have been living in the pasture up to this point. I'm wondering if we need to have stalls in a barn for them, or if they will do okay in our pasture with a run-in shelter. We live in Northern Minnesota, so the winters can get pretty intense. I appreciate any advice. Thanks.
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RichZ
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Loc: Cambridge, New York in beautiful Washington County, next to Vermont
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Re: Horses outdoors only?
[re: rookie]
06/19/04 09:32 PM
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As long as you have a good three sided shelter, and feed them well, and provide plenty of fresh water, they should be fine. I have two quarter horse geldings and a Belgian mare. They all have free access to our barn, and to their pasture. They come and go as they please. I have stock tanks with water heaters in the barn, and the barn is very dry. Even in the winter, they like to spend most of their time outside, in fact, they're outside even more in the winter. They spend much of the middle of the day in the barn to escape bugs in the summer. Our winters here in upstate New York can be pretty intense, too.
Also, make sure they get plenty of good horse feed, besides hay in the winter.
Rich
"What a long strange trip it's been."
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gsganzer
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Re: Horses outdoors only?
[re: rookie]
06/21/04 08:01 AM
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A three sided loafing shed will work fine.
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Stoneheartfarm
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Re: Horses outdoors only?
[re: gsganzer]
06/21/04 10:53 AM
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This is a dumb question. (I get to ask them every now and then.  ) Why do they call them "loafing" sheds? Does anybody know?
Steve
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gsganzer
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Because the horse just loafs around in them. I've also heard them called turn-out sheds.
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mundamanu
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Re: Horses outdoors only?
[re: RichZ]
06/22/04 01:12 PM
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As everyone has said, the run-in shed will be fine. This may go without saying, but just in case it doesn't, make sure the open side is south facing.
In feeding them well, make sure you increase their hay (high quality) consumption and not their grain/pellet consumption. The digestion of hay generates quite a bit of heat whereas the digestion of grain/pellets generates little. I came across a pretty neat graph a few months ago that I forgot to save and can no longer find that showed how a horse's cold-tolerance changed according to its hay consumption. A horse eating little hay started to get cold in the low 40s (f) whereas a horse eating a lot of high quality hay was still comfortable in the low teens.
Also, make sure you monitor their water consumption when it is really cold. Since they have always been outside, I imagine it won't be a problem with the two you are buying, but we have a few horses at our barn that would rather die of dehydration than drink cold, not to mention nearly frozen, water. We humans stay warm in the winter hand carrying 5-gallon buckets of warm water from the sink for those pains in the behinds.
Blanketing is always an option. However, if you are going to blanket, you have to blanket consistently because blanketing retards the growth of a winter coat. That is not to say, however, that if you are going to have a week of -5F that you should not blanket because you haven't blanketed all winter. I, for one, would blanket at -5F, especially with only two horses to keep each other warm, but that is only because I am not used to seeing it go below 0F.
Anyway, have fun!
Edited by mundamanu (06/22/04 01:24 PM)
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RichZ
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Re: Horses outdoors only?
[re: mundamanu]
06/22/04 07:28 PM
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I have two open stalls that my three horses always have access to in my barn. Three can fit in either one, but one is large and roomy, and the other is a tight squeeze for the three of them, and naturally (if you know horses) they love to squeeze themselves into the small one.
I keep a 100 gallon stock tank in each, and in the winter I keep a submersable stock tank heater in each. It keeps the water form freezing, and actually keeps it warm enough for them to drink out of. It seems to keep it at the perfect temperature for them. That seems like a much easier solution than dragging it buckets of warm water!!!
Rich
"What a long strange trip it's been."
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mundamanu
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Re: Horses outdoors only?
[re: RichZ]
06/22/04 09:11 PM
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That seems like a much easier solution than dragging it buckets of warm water!!!
You can say that again. We do have the tank heaters in the stock tanks out in the turnouts, but the horses at our barn are all stabled at night (year round) in their own box stalls with 5-gallon buckets for water. The barn is unheated, so in the dead of winter the water coming out of the hose is around 32F and before long, an ice crust forms in the buckets (the heated 5-gallon buckets are too expensive for us, both to purchase and to run). Most of the horses just drink it cold and then break through the crust with their muzzles if they want more later, but those few that I mentioned won't touch the water unless it is at least 50 degrees. So, they get hand carried warm water at the 9PM feeding. That way they have water that they are willing to drink available while they are eating their hay. Obviously, that water will also get cold, but not before they've drunk enough to aid the digestion of dinner. Royal pains...but we love 'em anyway. 
I wasn't implying that you need to monitor your horses' water intake when it is cold. I know you know what you are doing. I've seen pictures of Rosie (but not the other two). She's a well-kept, healthy girl who is lucky to have such a doting father.
Speaking of fathers, when are we all going to get a thread detailing the experience you are having with all of those goat kids? And as polecat over on TBN says, we want pics!!!  
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cowboydoc
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Re: Horses outdoors only?
[re: mundamanu]
06/23/04 04:21 PM
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mundamanu,
They make insulated water holders that will keep buckets from freezing overnight. We have used them for years in the stalls and even on the coldest nights they don't freeze over. If you leave the water for longer than 24 hours it will freeze though when the weather is down in subzero temps.
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RichZ
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Re: Horses outdoors only?
[re: mundamanu]
06/23/04 09:06 PM
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I know, I really need to do a thread about the kids and their mommies. I'll do that soon!!
Tomorrow, my two mommy goats are being tested to get their star milker status. I'll include that in the thread, too!!
Rich
"What a long strange trip it's been."
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mundamanu
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Re: Horses outdoors only?
[re: cowboydoc]
06/24/04 05:42 PM
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cowboydoc, Thank you for the heads up on the insulated holders. I had not come across them before. They seem like they would definitely do the trick.
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DAP
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Re: Horses outdoors only?
[re: rookie]
06/30/04 02:58 PM
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I'm gonna buck the trend here.
In the natural world, wild horses do not have barns. But they do protect themselves with natural shelter. Further, the herd itself due to it's size serves to protect the individuals from the elements.
Horses seem to enjoy a 40 degree day the best. No bugs, no burn, etc.
Now I've seen horses turned out continually. They did not seem like happy animals to me however.
In the hot months, we as lot of folks do, turn our mares out at dusk just after the bug waves have quieted down, and turn them back in to their stalls around 9:30 am. Occassionally, we leave em out for a few days straight due to good weather/bug conditions. They are visibly eager to go back to their quiet clean and comfy stalls after a coupla/few days continuously out in the paddock.
If you are making a decision to keep them out there for a reason, that's one thing. If you HAVE TO keep them out there because you have no barn stalls, that's entirely different. Asking a vet to float some teeth, de-thrush some frogs, have an internal exam in a lean-to in the middle of Februray might be a little optimistic.
Same for farrier chores. If you shoe or trim, doing this with frozen hooves out in a pasture during bad weather is a good way to lose a farrier.
Horses are all suseptible to 'kidney winds'. Being wet, icy-cold and blown on is bad for any horse and a lean-to or loafing shed may not always get them outta the elements, no matter which direction it's facing.
Doug
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cowboydoc
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Re: Horses outdoors only?
[re: DAP]
07/01/04 09:03 AM
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Research shows your theories to be wrong DAP. Horses live longer, have less health problems, and less behavioral problems if they are outside and on pasture. Several studies have shown the worst possible scenario for a horse is being in a stall, especially in the winter. A three sided lean-ton with a roof and open to the south is the best way to keep horses.
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gsganzer
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Re: Horses outdoors only?
[re: cowboydoc]
07/01/04 09:51 AM
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I'll second that. Let them free roam and seek shelter as they please. All of the folks I know that keep their horses in stalls seem to have hoof, colic and stall injuries.
My horse is allowed to free roam in a pasture with a loafing shed. He feeds on pasture and I only throw hay in late summer and winter when the forage has dried up. I give him one scoop of 12% pellets daily as a thanks, but no thanks. It just keeps him coming around when I walk out into the pasture.
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egon
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Re: Horses outdoors only?
[re: gsganzer]
07/01/04 12:23 PM
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Back a few years draught horses were turned loose in the field when not required for work. In winter they did not have a water supply other than snow. They had to rustle food on their own from the fields or strawpile. No sheds or any shelter other than trees. They managed quite well.
Egon
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gsganzer
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Re: Horses outdoors only?
[re: egon]
07/01/04 02:03 PM
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Back a few years draught horses were turned loose in the field when not required for work. In winter they did not have a water supply other than snow. They had to rustle food on their own from the fields or strawpile. No sheds or any shelter other than trees. They managed quite well.
Those horses have really come a long way. They can probably thank the ACLU and the "Horses Union".
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egon
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Re: Horses outdoors only?
[re: gsganzer]
07/01/04 06:41 PM
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Nope.
Different type of horse.
Egon
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mfaley
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Re: Horses outdoors only?
[re: rookie]
07/08/04 07:29 PM
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Rookie, I assume that these are horses you are going to ride for fun on the trails etc and, as such, will spend most of thier time in pasture. That being the case, I agree that a good 3 sided run in with a tall roof is a good way to go. Facing south is also recomended as long as you dont have any unique wind patterns that blow rain/sleat/snow in that direction. If that is the case, then you might seal off part of the front or reorient as needed.
If these are show or performance horses then you might not be able to get away with the good advice you have recieved here for keeping them in pasture. Its not unusual for performance horse events to go into Dec and start in Feb. so a barn is the way to go to keep them in "Show" condition.
We dont get nearly as cold as you will but we do have to pull ice off the tops of the water buckets. I like the idea of not having automatic waterers so we know how much they are drinking. You can find insulated buckets, heating elements and watering systems at places like Valley Vet Supply, Stateline tack, etc.
When it gets cold make sure they can get water and feed them a good bale feed that has not gotten wet. We usually feed 3 times a day such as 7am, 5pm and 10pm(keep it as consistant as possible in terms of timing, proportions and feed). The late feeding they get a light feeding of something like oat hay so they have something to munch on.
BTW....congrats on the new additions! Have fun and be safe.
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opie744
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Re: Horses outdoors only?
[re: RichZ]
09/22/04 09:44 PM
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Do you have to worry about coyotes at night w/ horses. We seem that have at least 5 different ones here on our land and seems like the only time I see them is when my husband is not around to take care of them...
They have gotten a few hens and we are trying (unsucessfully) to give them lead poisoning. 
That is why we put ALL of our animals in the barns at night. We know that the coyotes usually go for the easy prey but we don't know when they easy prey is hard to find and they go for harder prey. 5 is a pack and I (before we realized what was going on  )watched 3 stalk the 30 plus deer that feed in the fields.
its 5 o'clock somewhere
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RichZ
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Re: Horses outdoors only?
[re: opie744]
09/23/04 07:13 PM
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Opie, we have plenty of coyotes around here, but I've never heard of them bothering horses around here. There's plenty of small critters for them. Also, I keep a radio on either a talk station or music station that is not instrumental. The human voice is supposed to keep coyotes, wolves and foxes away. It does seem to work, before I hung the radio on my hen house, I always had foxes and coyotes hanging around, looking for an easy meal. Now they keep their distance. So...if you're worried about coyotes, keep a radio on that can be heard in your pasture.
Rich
"What a long strange trip it's been."
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mfaley
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Re: Horses outdoors only?
[re: RichZ]
09/24/04 01:28 PM
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We have a lot of coyotes in our area and the only thing they worry are the goat/sheep and smaller animals. The only thing they might go after would be a young or hurt horse.
They would have to really be desperate and pack up to get to a horse. I used to worry about them but now I dont pay much attention. I actually worry more about our dogs getting to the bait and traps our neighbors set of coyotes than I worry about the coyotes themselves. Even when we lost some sheep to them I did not mind having them around.
Mark
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opie744
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Re: Horses outdoors only?
[re: RichZ]
09/24/04 06:50 PM
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Thanks for that idea, we'll try it. We just saw two different ones in the last two days. They must be moving in this area, we're not sure why, being new to this. Haven't really seen any in the mid to late summer.
its 5 o'clock somewhere
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