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bigbukhntr
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Reged: 09/12/02
Posts: 74
Loc: north texas
raising cattle
      09/20/02 10:51 PM

we have just recently completed our fence on our place here in n texas, a pipe fence with non climb wire to keep our dogs in and most strays out....
so we are now considering buying a few cattle, mainly for pets as i dont see my family ever eating them, and also to keep our land ag exempt....
is there anything special we should know about raising cattle, such as feeding, certain breeds to stay away from, do we really need a good barn or will a 3 sided loafing shed do?
we have pretty good grass now and we are steady fertilizing/cutting it to improve it, and if we need to, the old man across the street will cut/bale it for us for $1 a bale so we hope to do that someday....
so my main question is, what is involved with the feeding process, just let em graze all summer or do we have to supplement in the summertime, and feed em hay / cattle feed in the winter?looking at 5-6 head on 15 acres we have....

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DUMBDOG
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Reged: 09/11/02
Posts: 286
Loc: North Dakota, Florida
Re: raising cattle new [re: bigbukhntr]
      09/21/02 01:05 AM

I do not know about down there, but up here in North dakota, that is only enough land for 3 cow/calf pairs.

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EJB
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Reged: 09/15/02
Posts: 243
Loc: Western, Massachusetts
Re: raising cattle new [re: DUMBDOG]
      09/21/02 07:00 AM

Wow...so are you saying, that in general you need about 5 acres per head? Is that only if you are not supplementing with feed/hay?

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cowboydoc
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Re: raising cattle new [re: EJB]
      09/21/02 07:55 AM

Shoot our ranch in Idaho you need 20-40 acres for a cow/calf pair.

With regard to the question on raising cattle yes just make sure they have plenty of hay or grass. If you aren't going to eat them there's no reason to grain them. Give them a good salt/mineral block and water and that's about it. You do need to worm them a couple times a year. Most of the wormers for cattle you can just pour on their backs.

NOW with that said raising cattle for market or to eat is a totally different story.

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Al_Wa
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Reged: 09/12/02
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Re: raising cattle new [re: bigbukhntr]
      09/21/02 10:37 AM

Bigbukhntr,

My grandpa used to say "aint no place on the farm for a critter that don't pay his way". I think that was pretty good advice.
Al

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bigbukhntr
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Reged: 09/12/02
Posts: 74
Loc: north texas
Re: raising cattle new [re: Al_Wa]
      09/21/02 11:06 AM

i am not trying to raise cattle for a living, so money really isn't an object.....i just want something for the kids to enjoy/take some responsibility in, and keep the rural feel to our place...

any particular breeds less troublesome/ less maintanence than others?

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bigbukhntr
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Reged: 09/12/02
Posts: 74
Loc: north texas
Re: raising cattle new [re: cowboydoc]
      09/21/02 11:12 AM

so we shouldnt have to buy range cubes or any other type of bagged feed if we dont care how fast they grow? is that the main reason to grain feed them, to put on body weight as quick as possible?
we have green grass 9-10 months out of the year down here..
i have about 75% coastal bermuda for them to graze on, so i can get by with just feeding them hay in the winter?

how about shelter, do they really need to be protected from anything? we dont have harsh winters, but it does get into the mid-teens sometimes in jan/feb..maybe snow once every coupla yrs....

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Al_Wa
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Re: raising cattle new [re: bigbukhntr]
      09/21/02 03:11 PM

I only have experience with two breeds, Black Angus and Herefords. Never had a Hereford get out and the only thing that would hold an Angus, was the freezer. If you want a challenge maybe Longhorns
Al

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DUMBDOG
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Reged: 09/11/02
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Loc: North Dakota, Florida
Re: raising cattle new [re: bigbukhntr]
      09/21/02 03:11 PM

Cattle can handle the snow, as far as protection for them, you do not need a barn for them in those kind of conditions, they can handle those low temperatures.

As far as breed of the cattle goes, stick with the smaller ones, you will find that cattle will get used to people and that the more that you work with them and are around them the better it would be. However they are not pets.

Twenty to fourty per pair in Idaho, now that is barren ground.

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poorboy
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Posts: 90
Loc: Eastern Kentucky
Re: raising cattle new [re: bigbukhntr]
      09/21/02 08:13 PM

After todays experience with the neighbors bull, I came to the realization of the whole India Brahma thing. They came to terms years ago that you can't fence for them without electric so they just let them run wild. Listen to Richard, he has some good suggestions.

Patrick

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cowboydoc
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Re: raising cattle new [re: bigbukhntr]
      09/21/02 08:26 PM

Couldn't agree more Al!!!

A three sided shelter will be all the cattle need. Get a milk cow breed like holsteins, guernsy, etc. They are nice and gentle.

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bigbukhntr
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Reged: 09/12/02
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Loc: north texas
Re: raising cattle new [re: DUMBDOG]
      09/21/02 09:38 PM

so what are the smaller breeds....that sounds like a good idea to us? herefords?

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DUMBDOG
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Loc: North Dakota, Florida
Re: raising cattle new [re: bigbukhntr]
      09/22/02 12:29 AM

As a kid growing up on the farm, we had a variety of cattle, herefords, black angus, and a few others. The herefords did seem more gentle than some of the rest.

But remember, when a cow has a small calf, they can be very protective.

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jtcweb
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Reged: 09/13/02
Posts: 53
Loc: SE Michigan
Re: raising cattle new [re: bigbukhntr]
      09/22/02 08:34 AM

I've seen mentioned other places about a breed called Dextor that is small. I don't know anything about them other then the person that wrote the article thought they were the best for "part-timers".

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Scott_IN_WVa
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Reged: 09/11/02
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Loc: Planet West Virginia
Re: raising cattle new [re: bigbukhntr]
      09/22/02 12:10 PM

Get yourself an Angus,small calves,fast growth,mothers have a good protective instinct,no horns and very rarely ever get pink eye.I hate to have to pull calves.Its hard enough to make money with live cattle,let alone a dead calf.Growing up we had Black Angus and a few years ago I had a herd of Red Angus.The only time we ever had a calving problem was we had a bunch of heifers got out and were bred too young.I have seen those Angus calves born in zero degree weather and get up and wobble around and find the teat and go to work,nature is amazing..............

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Phred
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Reged: 09/13/02
Posts: 104
Loc: Arkansas
Re: raising cattle new [re: bigbukhntr]
      09/23/02 12:23 AM

The other guys have some good insight.

I would just add that these things can be a hand full so be carefull.
A freind of mine lost an eye from a kick to the face. Lots of unpleasent surgery and he still can't see out of that eye.

You are talking about a ~1000 lb animal not a puppy.

Fred

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Scott_IN_WVa
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Loc: Planet West Virginia
Re: raising cattle new [re: Phred]
      09/23/02 11:57 AM

Yes they can hurt/kill you and not mean to,or the can hurt/kill and mean to do it.
I had a Hereford bull one time...he thought he was a puppy,I could climb right on his back and set on him in the middle of a field,no grain bucket to entice him...I even set the kids on his back and took pictures of them.Take a stick and scratch his belly or neck and he just absolutely loved it,on the other hand I had a Red Angus bull and you had to carry a big stick and watch him out of the corner of your eye,I thumped him more than once,just so he would know who was the boss.

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Argee
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Posts: 216
Loc: Northern Michigan
Re: raising cattle new [re: bigbukhntr]
      09/25/02 07:42 PM

so what are the smaller breeds....that sounds like a good idea to us? herefords?

You may want to take a close look at Dexters. A small breed that survive on marginal pastures. You can support two per acre. They are gentle. They finish out in the 900 to 1000LB range and yield 60%. Looks to be a good choice for small acreages.

Argee

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jtcweb
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Reged: 09/13/02
Posts: 53
Loc: SE Michigan
Re: raising cattle new [re: Argee]
      09/25/02 08:02 PM

Where are you at in MI? I am in Ypsilanti and would like to try a Dexter. How do they do in the winter? How much does a calf cost?

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Argee
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Reged: 09/12/02
Posts: 216
Loc: Northern Michigan
Re: raising cattle new [re: jtcweb]
      09/27/02 08:32 AM

I'm still in the research stage. What I've found so far is they're 2-3 times the cost of the average Angus or Hereford calf. My interest is raising them for sale and meat. Keeping the cows and one bull, culling the young bulls and converting them to steers for the beef.

I've raised both Angus and Herefords for beef. Taken to market at 1300 - 1500 Lbs and giving back a yield of 600 lbs of meat and less makes the Dexters an attractive breed for that purpose. The high end weight of a Dexter bull is 1,000 Lbs and the yield I'm told is 60%. Do the math, it's astounding you can support 1 Dexter per half acre versus 1 Angus or Hereford per 1-1/2 - 2 acres for the same yield. For the long term, based on that info alone, makes the Dexter a sound investment. Factor in their gentle nature and stable health record and you've got a people friendly animal that can be profitable to boot.

I've copied a short history on Dexters from various web sites I visited to give you some insight on this cattle.

By the way, I live in Wolverine which is about 20 miles north of Gaylord and 40 miles south of the bridge.


"Dexter Cattle were originally from Ireland, and rescued from extinction in the 1970's to become a very popular animal with small acreage farmers around the world.

The Dexters are true miniatures, measuring between 38 to 40 inches high.

They are a dual purpose animal, producing both milk and meat, and are an ideal cow for the small farm as you can keep more Dexters per acre.

Their docile temperament is great for farmers inexperienced in handling large cattle.

Dexters' average milk production is just on 7 liters a day and grow to around 320 - 400 kilograms producing high quality beef ideal for the family freezer. "

American Dexter Cattle

"The importation of Dexter cattle to America is thought to have occurred long ago, but the first recorded importations arrived between 1905 and 1915 and numbered over two hundred head. A complete history of early herds, their owners and the transfer of cattle between owners is well documented in the ADCA Herd Book. Although the Dexter was an ideal homestead cow, providing meat, milk and power and found a good deal of popularity in that arena, as milk and meat production became specialized, the Dexter numbers decreased. At one time there were thought to be less than 5,000 in the world, but today, with renewed interest in small holdings, the numbers have risen to approximately 12,000 head worldwide. There are some 4,000-5,000 in North America at this time. The ADCA has nearly 400 members and registered 613 cattle in 1997.
The American Dexter possesses many desirable characteristics. It is still a very hardy animal, thriving in both hot and cold climates with little difficulty. It is tractable and easily trained, either as a pasture animal (kind on fencing) or a show animal (great with children and young adults). It is a thrifty animal and capable of thriving on a half acre per head of good pasture, given the typical Dexter's small size. Registered cows measure between 36 and 42 inches in shoulder height at three years of age, and weigh approximately 750 pounds. Bulls are slightly larger at 38 to 44 inches shoulder height, and weigh in around 1000 pounds.

Whether short or long legged (Kerry) types, both varieties are strong and, for their size, high volume, milk producers. They also produce an excellent lean beef when raised for meat. To be sure, there is less of it, and smaller cuts of meat, but the quality and coloring are usually exceptional.

Finally, because they are still a minor breed, but one in increasing demand for "suburban" and small farmers, they have held their resale value exceptionally well, and most supply and demand projections indicate that this is likely to be the case for some time to come. "




Argee

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poorboy
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Reged: 09/11/02
Posts: 90
Loc: Eastern Kentucky
Re: raising cattle new [re: Argee]
      09/27/02 08:17 PM

This is not about cattle but my wife is from ypsi, and the best sandwich I ever ate in my life was at the Big Buck Brewery in Gaylord. I think it was on the way back from the island. I can still taste it 4 years later. It was a corned venison sandwich and a fresh brewed beer. I am serious when I say I would drive the 11 hours to get another one.

Patrick

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Argee
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Reged: 09/12/02
Posts: 216
Loc: Northern Michigan
Re: raising cattle new [re: poorboy]
      09/27/02 09:28 PM

The Big Buck Brewery is still there, and they're still brewing beer and making that same sandwich. You don't have to drive all the way to Gaylord anymore. I think there is one in the Detroit area now. If you can't find it come on up, the color tour is on.

Argee

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jtcweb
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Reged: 09/13/02
Posts: 53
Loc: SE Michigan
Re: raising cattle new [re: Argee]
      09/28/02 08:47 PM

Do you know about what they cost? I'm thinking about just a young steer to keep.

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RMeadows
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Reged: 09/11/02
Posts: 43
Loc: Mulberry, Florida
Re: raising cattle new [re: Argee]
      09/29/02 08:00 PM

I just picked up three Herefords today, Meat, Chuck and Pumkin (pumpkin was bottle fed ). One was a bull and we de-bulled him upon delevery.

Cattle are pretty self caring, especally in warmer climents. I keep about 6-10 plus three horses on about 13 acres. Only work I do with the cattle in the occasional round up for worming and shots.

Roger Meadows
TiAnViCa Ranch
Mulberry, Florida

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Ranchman
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Reged: 09/30/02
Posts: 118
Loc: Texas
Re: raising cattle new [re: bigbukhntr]
      09/30/02 01:13 PM

bigbukhntr-

As you can see from the other guys, the number of cattle your land can support will vary wildly depending on region. Talk to your local Ag Extension agent regarding the appropriate # of cattle to run on your property.

The reason you should do this is that Texas law states you must says that your land (to retain 1-D-1 Ag Exempt Status) must meet the same intensity of use "...typical (of) prudent producers in your area."

The "raising or keeping livestock" clause might allow you to keep the Ag exemption if you have "pet cattle" , but better to check with the authorities on that one as well, otherwise you might need to think about butchering 'ol Bessy.

Not sure if you're aware of it or not, but there are some pretty serious ramifications with regards to taking property out of Ag production. (5 yrs backed differential taxes @ 7% interest, which can mean some big bucks).

Hope this helps.

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cowboydoc
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Re: raising cattle new [re: Ranchman]
      09/30/02 01:54 PM

I don't believe that it would, at least not in any state I"ve lived in or on a federal level. You have to be involved in the production of a product to qualify for an ag exemption. This means raising livestock to sell, raising a crop to sell, raising the livestock to support a business, ie a hunting ranch, raising horses to sell, zoo, etc. There has to some type of production going on. If there isn't then you cannot qualify as an ag. exemption.

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Ranchman
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Reged: 09/30/02
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Loc: Texas
Re: raising cattle new [re: cowboydoc]
      09/30/02 04:54 PM

Cowboydoc-

I suspect you're right. I figured that it would probably make more sense for him to check with the "proper" authorities before he made any commitments. (sure hate to see a multi-thousand dollar mistake based on any advise I threw out! )

Personally I don't think the "wildlife management" clause would get him that exemption either since it is such a small tract of land, but I'm not sure on that one either, so it would make sense for him check with the State on that one too.

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timb
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Loc: Southwest PA
Re: raising cattle new [re: Argee]
      02/05/03 12:00 PM

(bump) Argee (or anyone else) did you ever get anywhere with the "miniature" breeds?

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earthmother
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Reged: 10/16/02
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Loc: Cambridge, NY, in the beautiful foothills of the Green Mountains.
Re: raising cattle new [re: bigbukhntr]
      02/05/03 02:38 PM

I never had cattle for a pet although we would like to get one some day. We were thinking of Scotch highland. They are very rugged, but a cold weather animal due to the long hair. we were going to get a steer (castrated male). Due to size of the animal, it's not a pet for cuddleing with, but I've seen some very gentle animals. If you decide to get something for a pet, see if you can work with the farmer before the animal is born and have the calf imprinted and handled from birth, and buy it very young. I would think a steer would be better than a heifer because you don't have to contend with hormones. Dexters are very small, and at first I was considering them , but they are very expensive. They are also hard to find. You may consider a small breed of the "normal" cattle, such as a Jersey. Try going to some shows and speak to people there about they stock. Good luck.

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Argee
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Loc: Northern Michigan
Re: raising cattle new [re: timb]
      02/05/03 02:49 PM

Tim,

Been out pricing them and plan on aquiring some this spring. I'd like to start out with a few heifers and start building a herd. Think I'll go with artificial insemination and cull all the bull calves, turn 'em into steers and raise for meat. Just ordered a half dozen hogs also.



Argee

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Argee
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Loc: Northern Michigan
Re: raising cattle new [re: Argee]
      02/05/03 02:53 PM

I've got some names picked out for the hogs.

Pork Chop, Hambone, Riblet, Bacon Boy, Tasty to name a few. Any other ideas as these are going to be pets for tablefare.

Argee

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EJB
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Loc: Western, Massachusetts
Re: raising cattle new [re: Argee]
      02/05/03 03:05 PM

Just curious, we are thinking about raising some sort of cattle this year too (probably just one); is there a particular type that would be best suited to getting it in the spring, and butchering it by late fall? or do they all need more time than that?

Don't want to have to feed a very large animal over the winter...and during spring/summer/fgall I have plenty of land for grazing.

Thanks.

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Argee
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Re: raising cattle new [re: EJB]
      02/05/03 03:14 PM

We've done both Hereford and Angus that way. Buy them from the sale barn in April, contain and grain through October or November.

If you get two animals they keep each other company and have better dispositions. We only kept a side for ourselves and sold the others by hanging weight. You'll end up having your meat payed for and a little money in your pocket for your trouble. Make sure you make an advanced appointment with the processor so you can get them in on schedule.

Argee

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Argee
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Re: raising cattle new [re: EJB]
      02/05/03 03:19 PM

I have plenty of land for grazing.


Figure 1-1/2 to 2 acres for an Angus or Hereford. A month before processing put them in a stall and pour the grain to 'em. About 2% of their body weight per day divided into 2 feedings about 12 hours apart with a leaf of hay each time.

Argee

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timb
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Loc: Southwest PA
Re: raising cattle new [re: Argee]
      02/06/03 07:05 AM

Randy,

I'll be real interested in what you think of the Dexters once you've got them on site. The smaller or even miniature breeds seem to have a lot of benefits for my sized homestead.

Depending on how things work out with our place and possibly leasing or buying the adjoining land (the other "half" of the family farm) I'll have only somewhere between 10-25 acreas that will likely stay in pasture. Even in reasonably "lush" PA there's a limit to how many head can be kept here without buying more "outside" hay.

Been a while since there's been beef on the place, my wife's grandfather always had a couple of spring-to-fall steers or so, but that's been twenty years or more back, so even her family is "rusty" and I'm a novice at cattle. A small "herd" of the smaller breeds would seem to lend themselves well to both farm and family size.

Let us know about the Dexters once you have them. Nobody I know of around here is running any of the small/miniature lines.

Tim

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Argee
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Re: raising cattle new [re: timb]
      02/06/03 07:27 AM

Tim,

They say Dexters are ideal for small acreages. The one thing holding me back at the moment is their cost!!!! $1200 for a heifer calf. When you compare that to what you could pick up an Angus or Hereford calf for ($500) it's hard to swallow. But the $1200 is for absolute purebreds with papers. Inasmuch as I'm going for a meat operation some tainted strains might be the answer. If there are a few white spots here and there on the critters, it probably won't change the taste of the meat.

Argee

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timb
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Loc: Southwest PA
Re: raising cattle new [re: Argee]
      02/06/03 08:44 AM

Yep they are expensive to get into - but I kinda hoped that selling off the excess/bull calves once things were under way would help recoup some of the initial outlay. (Assuming the calf price stays pretty stable for these breeds for some time yet). Did you look into any of the other "small" or bred miniature breeds before settling on the Dexters?

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Stoneheartfarm
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Re: raising cattle new [re: Argee]
      02/06/03 06:08 PM

Argee,

Hog names? How about Christmas, Easter and Thanksgiving?

Steve

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Stoneheartfarm
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Re: raising cattle new [re: timb]
      02/06/03 06:24 PM

Timb

What do the bull calves sell for? I don't know about cattle, but with goats, does typically sell for a lot more. In fact, we've turned away 3 bucks that people wanted to give us, simply because we don't have any use for them. For instance, a heifer might run $1200.00 and a bull calf if you wanted to sell it without a heifer might be $50.00. If you're breeding and stocking someone else's herd, you can probably get more out of the bulls. But, if you're building you own herd and just selling the bulls, you might have to take what you can get.

Can anyone with some of these critters answer this?

Steve

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Argee
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Re: raising cattle new [re: Stoneheartfarm]
      02/06/03 06:46 PM

Hog names? How about Christmas, Easter and Thanksgiving?

Not bad, but it gave me another idea for one.....Dinner!

Argee

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Argee
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Re: raising cattle new [re: timb]
      02/06/03 06:54 PM

Did you look into any of the other "small" or bred miniature breeds before settling on the Dexters?

Yes, I looked into Jerseys. They are smaller framed breed and don't seem to have the meat yield potential of the Dexters.

The other reasons that make me lean toward Dexters is they can thrive on marginal pastures. According to what I've read, farmers of old used to put them out on poor weed infested pastures to clean them up. And lastly they are the original minatures that everyone else is cross breeding with.

Argee

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Stoneheartfarm
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Re: raising cattle new [re: Argee]
      02/06/03 07:58 PM

.....Dinner!

Mmmmm, Breakfast!

Steve

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cowboydoc
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Re: raising cattle new [re: Stoneheartfarm]
      02/06/03 09:23 PM

Typically with cattle a steer will sell for more than a cow or a heifer. A bull and cow usually sell about the same. Heifers sell for more, but steers sell for more than all of them. In order of what you want to sell then would be steer, heifer, cow and bull. Now all of that goes out the window if you're talking about good breeding stock. If it's a good looking bull that could be a herd sire it will bring far and above what the others will. We are not talking about great differences though unless they are calves which bring the most. On average there's probably less than a 10% difference between average cattle.

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Stoneheartfarm
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Posts: 792
Loc: West Central Michigan
Re: raising cattle new [re: cowboydoc]
      02/08/03 01:31 PM

Cowboydoc,

RFD TV has been running the cattle auction lately. When these guys are bidding on a herd, say 600 animals, all expected to weight about 700 pounds at delivery, and delivery to be 2 months away, is the price bid per animal, per hundred weight, or what? I'm seeing bid prices of $75.00 to $90.00. The last I heard, bull calves around here were under $100.00, but that is for whatever the farmer is trying to get rid of, and they are considerably under 700 pounds.

Why do steers sell for more? Seems like heifers would be more desireable as you can keep the strain going.

Steve

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