CountryByNet.com Forums :: Sleepy morning on the farm

EJB,

You missed my point. I don't care if a person is a hobby farmer or a professional farmer. One is not better than the other or anything else. I also never used the term hobby farmer or professional farmer. I said making a living and counting on your operations to make a profit makes a big difference in how you do things and the freedom to do those things. Alot of things can be done a small scale basis and you can make a little money, ie farmers market. But can you make a living with a farmers market? Most cases no. Can you make a $30-50k a year job of it, pay your health insurance, have a 401k, put away for your kids education, take 2 week vacations to Hawaii, etc. NO. You can't even do that for the most part on any farming/ranching operation!!! You can make a little cash and profit from your crop. But most people don't take into account all of their expenses. They just look at it that they made a profit from the expense of putting in the crop. It's also impossible to do some of the things large scale that you can do small scale.

It's easy to make decisions based on how you "might" make money. Rich Z is a great guy and I respect the way he does things. Rich also has a nice place, quite a few acres, and some nice animals. If he had to make the payments from his farming operation opposed to his regular job he might not be able to afford his place or have all the animals that he has just for pets. But he's having fun and enjoys the way he's doing things so that's great. I consider Rich a friend. I don't agree with his views but I respect the way he's doing things. I'd have Rich over anytime to my place and I'd help him out anyway that I could. But to make a living from it or pay for Rosie's feed or to make it a model for others to follow to make a farm work is not there. He's trying to figure something out to make it profitable his way and I wish him luck. But he couldn't have gotten everything he has now from running his place the way he does.

I guess I'm a little more hardened than alot of you because it's been my family and friends that have tryed to the bone to make farms and ranches work. I've watched them lose it all even though they worked 20 hours a day. Then I have seen environment. and wholistic farmers/ranchers come in and buy the place and run it to not make a profit but to try and put other farmers/ranchers out of business so their rich friends can come in and buy the ground. Then they turn the place into a sanctuary and horde all the elk and deer, buffalo, etc. They build fences, cut off water supplies, etc.

Now certainly everyone has the right to buy land, do what they want to, etc. My only point is that it's a completely different story when the money to run the ranch has to come from the stock or crops you raise and you don't have a regular salary to fall back on. Everything I make doesn't go into a stock portfolio, well a little of it but not much, it goes into buying land and cattle. I could never, even with help, have gotten what I have from trying to make it as a rancher. I only make it because of my "real" job. Heck I don't even consider myself a "real" rancher. I guess I have too much respect for the guys and gals that make this work without a regular job to consider myself equal to them. I saw it growing up and I knew I would never be able to make it that way. I didn't want to just take over a place. I wanted to earn my place. I'm no different than any of you out there that has a regular job to pay for their farm/ranch.

With regard to making it work from govt. payments. Well if you'd like to see our entire farming economy collapse then you can sure do away with farm programs. I don't know one farmer that thinks they are a good idea. You need to know the whole story here as well which is way beyone the scope of this forum or my time to write here right now

. The commodity price is just about completely controlled by the govt. and a few commodity buyers. The govt. has allowed there to be a monopoly in commodity buying. As a farmer you have one or two choices to sell your crop to. The govt. has developed the farming subsidy program to control the price of food. Allowing commodity brokers to monopolize was part of this process. Then the govt. can also control and know every little thing about your operation when you get govt. money. As a person actually making a living from the land you have no choice but to participate in govt. programs. Without them any farmer out there would be broke in a year or two. Believe me farmers fight every year for control of their commodity and the market.

You've already seen alot of the outfall. That is why so many of you can buy land now. It used to be that farmland would stay in a family forever. If it was sold it was sold in big lots. Small guys couldn't afford to buy 200 or more acres. Now kids that grew up farming know that farming/ranching is an extremely tough life and they see what it has done to their families. That land is then sold off when their parents, grandparents die. It's subdivided and now people are able to buy small tracts of land. The land itself anymore is worth more than a person could make at farming or ranching. You can't buy land anymore and expect to make the payments to farm it and make a living. Thus you see one of two things happen. The big farms/ranches get bigger and bigger developing into major corporations. Then you see smaller "hobby" farms crop up. You can't make a living from the ground but people see it as a good way of life and have fun farming a little piece of ground. Nothing wrong with that. But remember we still need the big farmers/ranchers to make the food that really feeds the world. I guess I'm just a voice here that points out the other side. I don't mean to put anyone down so please don't take it that way, but none of the people on this board, myself included, are what I would call a real farmer or rancher. We're doing what we want we want the way we want to do it because that's what we want to do with our free time. We aren't doing it to make a living.

I also challenge you to show me a "real" farmer that you are talking about that actually pays the payments for the land, equipment, etc. and makes enough of a profit to support a family. Yes some guys make a "little" profit with farming but it's not enough to make their land payment, buy their equipment, and put money in the bank to live on. It's easy to make a little money on a part-time farm because you don't consider everything. You don't take into consideration the price it cost to get the land and your house. You didn't make the money for the down payment from farming. You probably didn't buy the equipment with money from farming either.

There is mostly certainly a distinction between part-time farmers and ranchers. It's a huge difference. You have a freedom and decisions that you don't have when you have to depend on your crop/livestock for a living. There is a very slim margin to making a living with farming/ranching. You have to take advantage of every avenue available to you to make it all work. Everything you enter into is not done for "fun" but is done to make a profit so you don't lose your place. Is one better than the other? Certainly not. Everything and everyone has free choices. I may not like the ideas and the way alot of people run their places but that is not my choice and everyone is free to do with their place what they feel is right. I'm not condmning or judging anyone. I'm just pointing out the other side in alot of this. I don't dislike or disrespect anyone on these boards. I think it's great that everyone is getting into farming/ranching and enjoying the land. Just remember the guys that have to make it on the basis of their land alone and not a regular job. These guys are my heroes I guess. They know they could make more money, work half the hours, and have less stress and a regular income. Yet they choose to live the life they do. Yes it's their choice but they are still to be put on a different level than those of that do this as a side job. Are they better people than you and I are. No. Everybody has their job and place in society. No job in my opinion is any better or worse than another one. But I do feel feel farmers/ranchers deserve some respect and I don't think we should compare ourselves to them or put our places on the same level.

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