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jasonf
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What is the correct height of horse fence?
06/27/03 12:26 PM
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Guys:
I have gotten my 8 foot long post (4x4 PT) and have set them about 3 feet deep. This leaves me with 5 feet above, and I have put on some 1 x 6 rails and the fence looks kinda high to me.  I was wondering, since I have a road right in front of the fence, do I leave it as a 4 rail fence that is 5 feet tall so I prevent then getting out and killing someone on the road?  I am going to be boarding other peoples horses, as well as my own, and am wondering if the fence is the right height.
I have read that a stallion fence should be 4.5 to 5 feet tall, and I would appreciate other peoples experiance with this. Especially people who already have horses, and are either happy with a 4 foot fence of who wished that they had gone for a 5 foot. I have only put up 4 sections of rail so far, and used only 1 screw in each poard at this point to make it easy to remove them and lower the rails, if that is the way to go.
As usual I am grateful to all who reply  ....
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GERARD
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Re: What is the correct height of horse fence?
[re: jasonf]
06/27/03 02:16 PM
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Go with the 5 foot. You're better off having one a little tall than one a little short and getting an energetic young warmblood that thinks 4 foot is just a challenge. Our warmblood jumped 4 footers regularly when he was a two year old. Unless you KNOW that you'll never have anything but quarterhorses or older, more sedate horses, 5 foot should keep everything but a stallion with a mare in heat next to him in. All our fence is now 5 foot and we've had no escapes.
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jasonf
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Re: What is the correct height of horse fence?
[re: GERARD]
06/27/03 02:45 PM
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Thanks, I was thinking along those lines, but the CFO says 'that is not a pretty fence, it is too high'. I of course said sure honey, (with the sweat dripping into my bloodshot stinging eyes).  However, when we boarded horse few years ago, they got out and were running down the main road. I was just waiting for that horse to go through a windshield and kill someone. Shortly after that I got rid of the tenant and her horse, because I felt the income was too low and the liability too high.  I actually think the fence looks nice the way it is, and it is very solid. 
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cowboydoc
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Re: What is the correct height of horse fence?
[re: GERARD]
06/27/03 03:23 PM
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I agree with Gerard. Keep your fence at 5 foot. At that height horses won't usually try and jump it. Any smaller and given the right conditions they will try and go over it.
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jasonf
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Re: What is the correct height of horse fence?
[re: cowboydoc]
06/27/03 03:34 PM
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Thanks for the advice... I will keep it at 5', do you have any feeling about the spacing between the 1x6 rails? It is currently a 4 rail, with about 9" between each of the rails...
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SteveB
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Re: What is the correct height of horse fence?
[re: GERARD]
06/27/03 06:41 PM
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>Unless you KNOW that you'll never have anything but quarterhorses or older, more sedate horses...
Don't under estimate those QHs, they are the most athletic horses in the world 
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SteveB
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Re: What is the correct height of horse fence?
[re: jasonf]
06/27/03 06:48 PM
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I shoot for 54" and vary up to plus or minus 4" to follow the contour of the land. It seems like the right height to me and similar to many other horse fences I have seen. I've never felt it is too short or too tall, and it's just the right height for leaning on and kicking your foot up on the bottom rail.
The fact of the matter is that a horse fence is really only a visual barrier. Any horse that is truely determined can get through any fence, or slice themselves to shreds trying on the wire ones
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jasonf
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Re: What is the correct height of horse fence?
[re: SteveB]
06/29/03 08:19 AM
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Steve:
Your have just hit into my next question. I have the fence at 60", but now the land is sloping down about 6". If I keep the fence level then the fence looks an extra 6" high. If I allow the top rail to 'slope' down the 6" it looks like it is not level  What do think is the right thing to do?
Perhaps a cold drink, and some shade will help my outlook
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cowboydoc
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Re: What is the correct height of horse fence?
[re: jasonf]
06/29/03 07:01 PM
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Amen on the quarterhorses being athletic. They will easily jump a 5' fence if they have a mind to. Heck I've had cattle clear a 5' fence and not even break stride.
As far as your fence Jason 9" is fine for spacing. As far as going downhill or uphill just keep your posts all the same height and run the top board right along the top. I usually cut a 1x1 to the height I want and mark all the posts so I get my top rail just right. I usually will mark the measurement for all the rails at the same time.
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SteveB
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Re: What is the correct height of horse fence?
[re: jasonf]
06/29/03 07:58 PM
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I agree, follow the lie of the land. I only deviate +- 4" to accomodate very small dips and such. Here in New England there is no such thing as "flat" or "level".
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jasonf
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Re: What is the correct height of horse fence?
[re: SteveB]
06/30/03 08:06 AM
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Thanks Guys, I really do appreciate the advice. I guess I am caught between having a fence that is absolutely level (top of post to top of post, and the toprail too), Vs not having too much of a gap between the bottom 4th rail and the ground.
So far I have been able to put up 80 feet of fence, and I do have to say it does look really nice. I guess I have to remeber that I am building a fence and NOT the space shuttle. With having 5 ' showing above the ground, that leaves me with 3 feet in the ground. and if the land dips down a foot then I worry that I will only have 2 feet in the ground.... but the results so far are great.  Thanks to both of you, for your help, I am sure that as this horse thing goes along, I will have to ask you guys for help again
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MikePA
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Re: What is the correct height of horse fence?
[re: jasonf]
06/30/03 10:09 AM
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I was always under the impression (which doesn't mean it's correct ) that a fence follows the contour of the land, i.e., each post would be 5 feet above the ground.
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jasonf
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Re: What is the correct height of horse fence?
[re: MikePA]
06/30/03 10:41 AM
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Yeah, I guess your right. but this section the fence is on both sides of the driveway, and I wanted it to look uniform and level. But I have also figured out that if I know the land is going to dip, I make the fence follow the dip, but do it gradually over several posts, and drop the top rail maybe and inch over 8 feet of run and then raise it back up the same way. This has worked out OK since the fence looks level and nice. The only thing is that the fields on either side of the driveway are about 8 inches lower than the driveway. This drop off will work in my favor, since the fence is 5 ' when I am standing on the driveway, but it is 5' 8" if Iam standing in the field looking at the back of the fence, (the way the horse will be seeing it). I just want to make sure these horses stay inside the field. The old fence is maybe 4 feet tall and compared with the new fence, it looks so low... So after work tonight I will go and put in some more posts, and use up the last of the boards for the rails. Then its back to the sawyer for more rails I will have to take some picture of my progress, and see what you horse experts think......
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barryneedham
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Re: What is the correct height of horse fence?
[re: jasonf]
07/15/03 04:47 PM
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Five feet high is really the minimum for a horse fence; six foot high is considered the minimum for mustangs. Also, if those are wood 1x6s a spooked horse will run right through them. The 2x6 plastic fences seem to be a bit stronger than wood, while keeping the same decorative look.
Im in the process of building the fence for our turnouts; two large turnouts, each dividable into two smaller ones. It works out to about 2,900 linier feet of fence. That is 3 welded pipe uppers and posts on 10 horizontal centers set 4 deep in concrete. The 3 lower bars are 2 welded pipe on 18 vertical centers (4 bars total) for a 6 tall fence.
All of our hitching racks are also 3 welded pipe set 4 deep in concrete. Why 4 feet deep? That was a deep as I could get with my post hole digger :-)
Our turnouts are graded pretty flat, so ground contour is not really an issue there. Our perimeter fence is not flat at all, and that follows ground contour. The perimeter fence needs to keep range cattle and javelina out as well as provide a second line of defense against a loose horse. That is 4 of no-climb topped with 2 strands (another 12 vertical) of 4 point bard with a 4 hot wire stand-off on the inside; this is strung on T-post at 12 centers more or less. We will be planting pines around the inside of this fence as a windbreak and to prevent the horses from getting a good straight run at it.
We have the 4 acres immediately around our house fenced with 4 of no-climb and 2 strands of barb-less on top for our yard, garden, and to keep the dogs close. That has hot wire with a 4 standoff on the inside too, mostly to keep he dogs off the fence and in the yard.
It was very pretty watching a pair of our Arabs clear a 5 fence. It took me half the day to track them down and round the up.
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Benson
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Re: What is the correct height of horse fence?
[re: barryneedham]
07/16/03 08:00 AM
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>Five feet high is really the minimum for a horse fence;
For a four rail fence 5' works out pretty good. It's a little tall for a 3 rail fence. Most horse fencing in my area is not 5' tall. I would not consider 5' a minimum.
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cowboydoc
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Re: What is the correct height of horse fence?
[re: Benson]
07/16/03 12:56 PM
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I sure would consider 5' a minimum. Heck I've had a 2' hotwire keep animals in before. But I wouldn't build it that way.
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jasonf
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Re: What is the correct height of horse fence?
[re: cowboydoc]
07/18/03 09:47 AM
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Thanks guys, I have put the fence in between 5 foot and 5 and 1/2 feet, depending on the ground elevation. Boy putting this fence in is a real chore. I will be glad when it is done. I find that the best and most productive days for me are the ones when it is either lightly raining or very cloudy. This leaves the temp around 70 degrees and no direct sun beating down on me.
A few days of the last 3 weeks have been very sunny and hot (90 degrees) , on those days I start at 7am and knock off around noon, let the sun pass, and then I am back at it around 5pm. I am getting there, I have 3 sides done, but now have to make some gates. The fourth side has a stream on it. Do you think that it is OK to allow the horses free access to it (it is pretty flat and safe for them to approach, and the water is slow moving around 8 " deep), or should I keep them away from it? Some pictures will follow soon to mark my progress...
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cowboydoc
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Re: What is the correct height of horse fence?
[re: jasonf]
07/18/03 10:35 AM
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It will be fine to allow the horses free access to the creek. The only thing you have to watch is that they don't start eroding the banks away. As long as they aren't trampling this down you will be fine. No risks to the horses. Plus you won't have to worry about watering them. 
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jasonf
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Re: What is the correct height of horse fence?
[re: cowboydoc]
07/18/03 11:27 AM
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Thanks, the far bank goes up around 5 feet and is lined with thick brush, trees and bushes. I don't think they would be able to get through it. The side that faces the field is a little mushy, but I don't think that whey would be caught in the mud, it is not that deep. How will they get along without shade? There is morning shade from about 10 am to maybe noon, then they will be in full sun. I have planted some black walnut trees, that are now about 10 feet tall, I plan on putting a fence around each of the 2 trees to keep the horses from chewing on them, but are they a danger to the horses in general?
I also have a few crab apple trees in the next field. I have yet to fence in that field in but when I do, will the horses be ok to eat those apples right from the trees, and ground? Will they become sick from eating too many? Any advice is appreciated, as I don't want the animals to become sick, especially if I am boarding other peoples horses
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GERARD
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Re: What is the correct height of horse fence?
[re: jasonf]
07/18/03 12:42 PM
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You may not like this advice but black walnut is very toxic to horses, so much so that even using sawdust for bedding that was cut from black walnut can be a problem. I would not let the horses anywhere near the black walnut trees.
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MikePA
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Re: What is the correct height of horse fence?
[re: jasonf]
07/18/03 01:53 PM
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The side that faces the field is a little mushy, but I don't think that whey would be caught in the mud, it is not that deep.
Careful about the mud...it loves to grab horse shoes and pull 'em right off!
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jasonf
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Re: What is the correct height of horse fence?
[re: MikePA]
07/18/03 03:20 PM
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Thanks for the advice, I will have to make sure that it does not get too mushy.....
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jasonf
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Re: What is the correct height of horse fence?
[re: GERARD]
07/18/03 03:23 PM
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Now that you mention it, I do remeber hearing that you should not use walnut shavings, what about the apple trees. Will they gorge themselves and get sick? Or are apples OK?
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SteveB
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Re: What is the correct height of horse fence?
[re: GERARD]
07/18/03 11:11 PM
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Black walnut trees will kill all your horses if they eat any part of them in any quantity:(
Cut them down, spray the entire area with roundup and verify that none come up again. If they are old enough to produce nuts I'd repeat this procedure in the spring to try and get the ones the squirrels planted this year. I would wait some time to make sure the area is really free of these trees before putting horses out there. Otherwise you'll have a dead horse telling you that you missed some:(
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cowboydoc
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Re: What is the correct height of horse fence?
[re: SteveB]
07/20/03 11:37 AM
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I'm not so sure about killing horses. Some, not all, horses may founder from walnut shavings or they may get swollen legs. It's like saying that if you eat peanut butter you will die. Yes some people are allergic to peanut butter but most people get along fine eating it. Alot of people have used walnut shavings and had walnut trees in pastures over the years with no bad effects. Rarely will horses chew on a tree unless there is nothing else to eat.
Same with the apples and the trees. Some horses have bad effects from apples but probably not. Most crab apples will rot before the horses get to them. They may eat the leaves and branches if they don't have pasture.
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SteveB
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Re: What is the correct height of horse fence?
[re: cowboydoc]
07/20/03 02:17 PM
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I've definately heard of horses foundering and dying from exposure to black walnut trees. I think the black walnut is much more toxic than the english walnut. Anyone I've ever talked to about it just considers black walnuts to be about the worst thing as far as bad vegitation. The living tree may be worse than the sawdust.
I'll investigate further
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Bird
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Re: What is the correct height of horse fence?
[re: SteveB]
07/20/03 05:35 PM
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Of course it's been many years since I had a horse, but we had a black walnut tree just across the fence from the pen around the barn. The cows and horses couldn't get to the tree, but leaves and walnuts fell into the pen and I never heard of there being any danger to livestock.
However, we dug a hole and sunk a concrete water trough in the ground in the shade under the tree (outside the pen) to keep minnows in and learned that the walnuts falling into the water would kill fish. I don't know whether it was just the green walnuts or whether ripe ones would do it, too.
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jasonf
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Re: What is the correct height of horse fence?
[re: SteveB]
07/21/03 07:44 AM
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Please let me know what you find out, I have a small tree that is outside of the paddock, and I have 2 lambs, that have been running around free while I put this fence up. I have caught them eating the leaves and brances that they can reach. I yell at them and shoo them away, but they always come back (when I am in the middle of trying to level a fence post). They seem ok, and have suffered no ill effects from eating the leaves. I am equally concerned about the 4 or 5 apples trees that I have in the other field that I have yet to fence in. I am concerned that they will start eating as many apples as they can find on the ground, and then become seriously ill. I do not want to cut down these trees, and wonder if I should fence them off, to keep them away..... Thanks you all for your expert advice with this project, I am almost finished with the posts and rails. The sawyer was out of rails this past weekend, so we just put up the PT posts. I would say that we have about 7 more to go, and we will be done.
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SteveB
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Re: What is the correct height of horse fence?
[re: jasonf]
07/22/03 09:27 PM
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I did a quick search using google and "Black Walnut" & horses and came up with a bunch of stuff. I didn't go through it all but here are a couple interesting links.
It seems the problem with Black Walnuts is caused be a yet unidentified toxin present throughout most parts of the tree. From the studies that I skimmed over it seems that NEARLY ALL HORSES will show an adverse reaction to the toxin including laminitis or symptoms that usually precede laminitis. The toxin can enter the system through contact or ingestion. Most reported cases seem to be from shavings, but other cases have resulted from horses ingesting leaves, bark, AND MERELY BEING EXPOSED TO POLLEN BLOWING OFF THE TREES.
Sounds serious to me! As a horse owner youll learn very quickly that any risk factors for laminitis should be minimized as much as possible. This is something you dont want any horse to go through. Jason, unless these trees mean more to you than your horses I would remove them.
>Poisoning of horses in pastures containing black walnut trees is also a concern, particularly during pollen shedding in the spring, and in the fall when the leaflets are shed from the walnut leaves.
http://www.ansci.cornell.edu/courses/as625/1999term/boyer/horse1.html
http://horse.purinamills.com/bulletins/poison/blackwalnut.html
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jasonf
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Re: What is the correct height of horse fence?
[re: SteveB]
07/23/03 01:43 PM
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Yeah Steve, I guess it might be time to move those trees up to the house, far away from the fields that I will be boarding horses in. I did not realize that these trees could be a problem, even if I did not make bedding out of them. I have a lot to learn about this horse stuff, thanks for the help everyone, it looks like the trees are going to be moved
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gsganzer
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Re: What is the correct height of horse fence?
[re: jasonf]
07/31/03 10:30 AM
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I built over a 1000' of welded pipe horse fence around part of my pasture. I made the top rail at 52" to 54" off the ground. Anything taller looked aesthetically displeasing. However, for a little extra height, I've seen people put a hot wire along the top using the insulators that have the bracket for chainlink fence (From TSC) If you attach it to the top rail (in my case tack weld it) and point it straight up it gives you about an additional 6" of height. The electric wire helps prevent the horses from using the top rail to scratch and pushing the fence out of whack.
Regarding following the contors of the land: I set all of the poles and then run 100' of string where the top rail will be. You don't want to follow every dip and hump in the land, the top rail would look ugly. I just keep stepping back and adjusting the string height to give the best look, while approximating the 52" to 54" desired height. Some points along the top rail may be greater and some less then the 52" to 54". I mark the height on all of the poles and then move the string to the next 100 foot stretch and repeat.
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SteveB
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Reged: 09/18/02
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Loc: Eastern Connecticut
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Re: What is the correct height of horse fence?
[re: gsganzer]
07/31/03 12:46 PM
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I guess everyone else seems to think taller is better, but I agree with you. I've always heard the figure 54" for the typical horse fence. That's even the default figure mentioned by RAMM fence in their installation manuals for their high tension PVC fencing. From the fences I've built this seems just about right for a three rail fence. If I was doing 4 rails I might go a little higher (58" or 60") so the rails would be properly spaced to look good. I figure if a horse is willing to jump 54" they'd just as soon go through it (if it's wood)
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gsganzer
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Reged: 07/31/03
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Loc: Denton, TX
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Re: What is the correct height of horse fence?
[re: SteveB]
07/31/03 02:08 PM
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I've been told the same thing about black walnuts and horses. I've also been told the same concerning red maple leaves, when they fall off in autumn. I don't know if there's any truth to the red maple. We don't have many of them in N. Texas.
An interesting thing about black walnut trees is that they actually produce a type of herbicide from their root system that prevents competing vegetation. It's amazing, the power of evolution and survival of the fittest.
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jasonf
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Re: What is the correct height of horse fence?
[re: gsganzer]
08/01/03 08:25 AM
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Thanks for the reply. I wish I would have asked these questions a little earlier before I started this project, but I have learned alot from the advice that I have been given. I have just about completed the install of the 4X4 posts and rails, and am working now on the part of the fence where it meets the small stream that I have on the property. I have only put one screw in each rail, so that I can go back and readjust the rails to give it a uniform look.
I will have to use the backhoe attachment I have to remove alot of the overgrown brush that has taken over the stream area. That will be my project this weekend, and then I should be able to them put in the remaining 6 posts.
I agree with and have done all of the things in your post, I especially agree with the comment about the fence looking too tall when it is over 54".
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cowboydoc
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Re: What is the correct height of horse fence?
[re: jasonf]
08/01/03 08:35 AM
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I guess 54" vs. 60" has to do with whether you are concerned about looks or you are concerned about safety and not having horses lean over the fence. Colorado State Univ. did a couple studies on horse fence height. 60" was found to be the height that most horses would not attempt to jump. 54" they would attempt it. Also at 60" horses will not lean over the fence. The 60" was said to be a psychological barrier to horses whereas smaller than 60" did not have the barrier effect.
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SteveB
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Re: What is the correct height of horse fence?
[re: cowboydoc]
08/01/03 07:37 PM
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I guess it has something to do with the size of the horses too, especially for the leaning over the fence part. You perspective might be a little different if you own some of those Mack truck warmbloods
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