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Autotech
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Loc: Hilltown Township, Bucks County, PA
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Encroachment - survey, fence, or.....?
04/15/03 01:44 AM
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I will soon be making settlement on my new/old home. Today I had an opportunity to walk around parts of the property I hadn't seen before, namely the 14 or so acres in the back currently being farmed by a local farmer. Parts of this 14 acres lie along residential back yards, and as near as I can tell some of these neighbors have taken advantage of the situation and extended their back yards into the field. Some by just a bit, some not at all, and a couple appear to have woodpiles, sheds, and junk well over where it looks like the property line should be.
At some point I hope to take over operation of this part of the property, and with only 14 acres of tillable land (unless I'm willing to give up 1 or 2 of the small pastures) I suspect I'll want to use as much of it as I can.
So my thinking is this - If I have the property surveyed and marked now, right after I move in, people will be expecting a change anyway and might not be so upset. If I wait they'll all assume it's ok and go right on with things the way they are, then if I decide I really need those last few yards later it may become more problematic.
Also, I'm hoping that if I have it surveyed and marked now, simply installing a few well spaced posts will be a sufficient reminder rather than having to go to a complete perimeter fence. Lots of expense, maintainance, and aggravation, as well as a hinderance to the local wildlife.
I don't want to create a lot of ill will - I plan on bringing animals back onto this property (haven't been any for about a year) and these people are the parents of the kids my children will go to school with. On the other hand land isn't cheap and plentiful around here, and whats mine is mine.
Any thoughts??
Gregg
Remember - If I sound like I know nothing about farming it's because I really don't!
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gauthier
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Re: Encroachment - survey, fence, or.....?
[re: Autotech]
04/15/03 03:49 AM
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I would try to get a survey of just the one side of your property that is in question,this is just to reaffirm you of where the line is,and it won,t cost to much if they don't have to do all the paper work [drawing up a map].This is what I had done, but state laws vary,but shouldn't in this,just for information.Then I would know for sure how much people [if any] were trespassing.Then go from there.If somebody is stupid enough to spend money building on,or using someone elses property and don't[or pretend not to] know where there property line is,than you shouldn't be impressed with what they think one way or another.After you know where your line is than maybe all you will have to do is put up some posted signs[metal tee posts work good with signs attached to pressure treated plywood and attached to posts with u clamps],you could even run a strand of barbed wire along them just to make it look more like afence,you can't keep a thief out with even a very good fence if they don't respect it.Talk to any one who is tresspassing before you put up posts.If they don't want to go along than you will have to get one of those things called a lawyer,because you can put then up and they could take them down,cussing, fistfights,gunshots,etc..But you should do this a.s.a.p. or you'll end up owning what other people let you have basicly.Don't ever worry about making somebody who has already wronged you mad,it just encourges them, or at least thats my opinion. RICHARD GAUTHIER
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chrisjbell
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Re: Encroachment - survey, fence, or.....?
[re: Autotech]
04/15/03 04:53 AM
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You want that survey done, and done fast. If people are already taking over your land, you've got trouble. Some of them may have bought their places with the impression that the yards are bigger than they really are and may think that you would be taking over their land.
This is one of the scariest stories I've seen lately - and it is a true one - mdbarb's saga. Get your survey done, put some *permanent* posts in, especially where people are already moving in, and if anyone gives you a hard time, do not back down or you'll have issues.
That leased thing sounds like trouble to me. BTW, if you don't have a lease with the farmer I'd suggest this. Talk to the person and find out what they think the deal is. If it is OK with you, go with it. But if it is anything less than what you want, let them know *in writing* (and an attorney might come in handy here) that they're out and you're the new owner with different plans.
I don't think they can come after you, although they might be able to put a wrench into the sale. But unless they have something that has been deeded to the land, when ownership passes to you they shouldn't have a claim (BTW, IANAL - I have no qualifications to hand out legal advice). But you should get an attorney to do a quick checkup of the situation. Dealing with it now will save you lots of headaches later.
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JohnMiller3
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Re: Encroachment - survey, fence, or.....?
[re: Autotech]
04/15/03 05:38 AM
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… some of these neighbors have taken advantage of the situation and extended their back yards into the field… a couple appear to have woodpiles, sheds, and junk well over where it looks like the property line should be…
Depending on the circumstances, especially length of time… some of these bordering “neighbors” may qualify for adverse possession against this property (you don’t officially own yet). Even after you have a survey done, pay out your money & get “title” (piece of paper) to the “17 acres”, you could potentially end up in court with each one of these neighbors individually if they decide to claim adverse possession against you…
PA brief -“…who claims title by adverse possession must prove actual, continuous, exclusive, visible, notorious, distinct and hostile possession of the land for twenty-one years…”
… get a survey of just the one side of your property…
Even if you only “asked” for a survey of “one corner” of the property… a survey will be conducted on the “entire parcel” to achieve the accurate results of “only one corner” or “just one side”… so you might as well do it right and pay for a survey of the “entire parcel”…
To get an idea of what you may be up against, you may want to check the deeds of all those bordering neighbors and find out first who has been there over “21 years”… they are your potential problems…
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egon
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Re: Encroachment - survey, fence, or.....?
[re: JohnMiller3]
04/15/03 07:08 AM
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John Miller3
Excellent advice.
Egon
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cowboydoc
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Re: Encroachment - survey, fence, or.....?
[re: JohnMiller3]
04/15/03 08:57 AM
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John gave you great advice on the land encroachment. On the farmland though you may not have any choice but to rent to him this year. Most states enforce the Sept. 1 rule for farmland that is leased. Most states will also enforce a verbal agreement with farming as well. What this means #1 is that if you buy the land now the farmer will have the right to farm that ground this year without your ok because he already had an agreement for this year from the previous owner. Also what this could mean is that there are verbal contracts for longer periods. For instance last year I planted an alfalfa field on some ground I leased from a neighbor. Our agreement is that I get to farm that ground for six years. The reason is because it's very expensive to put in an alfalfa crop. Your first year isn't very good usually, second year is better. But it's usually around the third year that it really starts producing. Also some farmers will spend alot of time to get an area cleared. They will do this in exchange for a longer period of rent. You will need to get up with the farmer leasing the ground and the present owner AT THE SAME TIME to get an accurate account of what their agreement is.
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herbenus
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Re: Encroachment - survey, fence, or.....?
[re: Autotech]
04/15/03 10:59 AM
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Barbed wire. Just do it. I would talk to them. Tell them you plan to run barbed wire along property line so they have time to remove their stuff. I think the fence will create less ill will then a bunch of no trespassing signs. Although you could put signs up as well. The fence will help to eliminate future problems. People will "forget", new neighbors will move in, etc. Your land will always be a temptation for walking the dog, tree houses, deer blinds, wood piles, junk piles, etc. The fence will help.
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Stoneheartfarm
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Re: Encroachment - survey, fence, or.....?
[re: JohnMiller3]
04/15/03 11:02 AM
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It's 22 years in PA? Only 15 in Michigan.
Steve
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Autotech
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Re: Encroachment - survey, fence, or.....?
[re: Autotech]
04/15/03 11:47 AM
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Great info so far - thanks!!
A bit of additional information/clarification:
The neighbors who seem to be encroaching are in a development that was carved out of this property some years ago. I don't know the exact date, but I'm pretty sure it has been no more than 10 or so.
Also, I'm not interested in displacing the leasing farmer yet (see other post), in fact I hope he'll be willing to continue working this ground until we're ready to take it on. I mentioned the lease only to indicate that the property owner is no longer actively involved in the outer reaches of the property, and due to effective plowing margins the lessor probably doesn't care.
Gregg
Remember - If I sound like I know nothing about farming it's because I really don't!
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mikell
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Re: Encroachment - survey, fence, or.....?
[re: Stoneheartfarm]
04/15/03 11:52 AM
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Let them know first thing you will be taking your property back then before they get a chance to reply put in the fence post. Don't wait even a week. Just looked at a forclosure in Frankenmuth with problems. One guy started taking more once he found out about the forclosure. I informed the bank I would be taking control without warning upon sale. Fence will be up within 48 hrs.
mikell
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bigbukhntr
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Re: Encroachment - survey, fence, or.....?
[re: Stoneheartfarm]
04/15/03 12:23 PM
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anytime you buy a piece of property, always get a new survey...it will show all easements and actual property lines....it will show fences, utility easements and whatnot.....how do u know where your property line actually ends without a legal survey?....the sellers may just be guessing at where their property line starts! we just bought 16 acres in texas, paid $400 to have it surveyed....started clearing the fence line on the east side, the old lady neighbor comes running out " what are you doing to my fence?". I told her that since it was my fence and on my property, i was gonna clear it from brush and take down the barb wire and put up field fencing.....she raised all sorts of a fuss and insisted that it was her fence! Seems the folks who sold her the land told her the fence was on her property instead of mine! She said that the brush was the only thing holding up the fence, and the only thing holding in the horses she was boarding.....she started ranting about how her son is a lawyer and she was gonna call him and have me stopped.....i told her that i was going to take down the fence one section at a time so it wouldnt inconvience her horse boarders, but if she wanted to get her son involved and take this to court, then the day after court when if i was proven right, i was gonna have my dozer out there and would take out the whole fence line, the heck with her horses.......i showed her son the recent survey, he talked to his mom, and we have been friendly neighbors every since....and i am still convinced that she actually thought that her properety went back about 20 feet further than it actually does!.....too bad her son didnt live here when she bought the property a few years back!
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herbenus
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Re: Encroachment - survey, fence, or.....?
[re: bigbukhntr]
04/15/03 01:33 PM
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I am having trouble with a neighbor and fence - but that's a different story. But I was told that in Texas it's against the law to remove a fence without permission of landowner on opposite side, encroachment or not. I'm not sure if this is true or not. I tried to research and found something about having to give owner 6 months written notice. I think there may be some old rural laws that make sense because of livestock issues. I don't know if they are still around and I don't know if they apply to non-rural settings. But something to maybe look into when tearing down a fence.
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Bird
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Re: Encroachment - survey, fence, or.....?
[re: herbenus]
04/15/03 02:08 PM
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I suspect the following section is what you're talking about.
In reply to:
SUBCHAPTER F. REMOVAL OF ADJOINING FENCES
§ 143.121. Prohibition
Except as provided by this subchapter or by mutual consent of the parties, a person may not remove a fence that is:
(1) a separating or dividing fence in which the person is a joint owner; or
(2) attached to a fence owned or controlled by another person.
Acts 1981, 67th Leg., p. 1351, ch. 388, § 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1981.
§ 143.122. Removal of Fence by Owner
A person who owns an interest in a fence attached to a fence owned in whole or in part by another person is entitled to withdraw his or her fence from the other fence after giving six months' notice of the intended separation. The notice must be in writing and given to the owner of the attached fence or to that person's agent, attorney, or lessee.
Acts 1981, 67th Leg., p. 1351, ch. 388, § 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1981.
§ 143.123. Requiring Removal of Fence by Another Person
A person who is the owner of a fence that is wholly on that person's land may require the owner of an attached fence to disconnect and withdraw the attached fence by giving six months' notice of the required disconnection. The notice must be in writing and given to the owner of the attached fence or that person's agent, attorney, or lessee.
Acts 1981, 67th Leg., p. 1351, ch. 388, § 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1981.
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herbenus
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Re: Encroachment - survey, fence, or.....?
[re: Bird]
04/15/03 02:21 PM
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Yep that's it. But not sure when it applies. I think if I had livestock and the neighbor took down the fence that was wholely on his property and my livestock got out getting injured or causing damage - that he would be liable for some damage if he didn't warn me first. But I don't have livestock so it's not the case. But what about him taking down the fence and the opposite happens: people or animals crossing his land onto mine and causing damage. I think he would be liable here also. But I'm no lawyer and there hasn't been a problem yet. Other then he's po'd me somewhat and now said I could put a fence up (when we already had one!). Well that's one reason why I moved to country - to get away from neighbors...
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Gary_in_Indiana
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Re: Encroachment - survey, fence, or.....?
[re: Autotech]
04/15/03 06:04 PM
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I'm very confused as to why you're buying property without a survey. How in the world do you know what you're buying?
I would absolutely NOT close on the property until I had a survey in hand. Around here, surveys are required by purchase agreements and are a seller expense paid out of closing proceeds.
Regardless of that, if your purchase agreement doesn't provide for that I think you should still have one done BEFORE closing. You might be surprised what you are and aren't buying.
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MarkV
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Re: Encroachment - survey, fence, or.....?
[re: Autotech]
04/16/03 02:48 PM
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I have a couple of related questions some of you may have answers to.
Are there any ballpark rules for figuring roughly what it will cost to survey a tract of land? A per acre cost? More for wooded land? Also when rural property is surveyed the corners are normally staked. When you want the line marked at closer intervals to facilitate fencing I would assume there would be additional charges. Any guidelines as to what to expect?
I once read someone recommending that you should install fencing 6-12" inside the property line so there is no question of joint ownership of the fence. What are your opinions on placing field fencing?
Thanks
MarkV
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bigbukhntr
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Re: Encroachment - survey, fence, or.....?
[re: MarkV]
04/16/03 03:08 PM
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when our property was surveyed, they put a iron rebar in the middle of the roadway (since we have a 60 ft easement...30' on my side of road, 30' on neighbor across the street)...they drilled into the street and put 1/2" rebar with pink flag and that was their starting point...everything comes off this stake....they then went down the street so far ....so many degrees latitude and so much for the curves and such....they put a rebar in the street every 500 feet or so i would know where the middle of road is (for my fence).....they put another rebar at he other corner of the properety.....and kept doing this until they had all 4 corners marked.....they had to clear out brush and such on the one corner in order to get to the property line there, but they just got weed wackers out and cut away...only enough to get in there and drive a rebar....all the rebars are flagged with bright pink construction ribbon and are very easy to locate...and very easy for your neighbors to see also..so there shouldnt be any discrepency over who owns what after these guys leave....after a couple of days, you will get a map of property with all dimensions and boundaries, all legal easements / utility easements and mine showed all existing fence lines which were on property at time of survey 
i paid 400 bucks for the survey and wouldnt even consider buying property without one....what if there are easements the owner isnt telling you about....we have a 120' waterline easement and electric easement across the back side of our property....the owner never mentioned that to us....no big deal since its on the very edge of the properety, but it means we cant build any permanent structures back there....it was a reason for us to offer less $ for the property though, since we couldnt build a house back there if we ever wanted to sell out land by the acre.... the owner knocked off about 40k for that acre not being buildable upon.....we can put a barn or something up there, but if they ever decide to run a water line or electric line down there, they have the right to tear down whatever we build.....they also paid for our gate back there when we had the fence put in.....so they would have access to property when they needed it....
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jtd
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Re: Encroachment - survey, fence, or.....?
[re: MarkV]
04/16/03 07:37 PM
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Mark, Surveyor costs can vary significantly so ask your neighbors/contacts for recommendations. The last one I used is an older gentleman. He brought along two helpers for clearing a line of site for fencing last year - marked the line about every 50 to 100 feet. Charged $450 for 10 hrs field work over two days. Previous surveyor recommended by my architect for a topographic plot of my house site prior to building cost $2,000 for 2 1/2 hrs field work. He did have to generate the topo plot but this can be essentially automated with the new instruments downloading directly into a computer program. All of the surveryors locally are using satelite verification for the registered corner markers. In Palo Alto, CA, about a dozen years ago I paid $1,000 for a simple verification of a lot when I bought it.
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Autotech
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Re: Encroachment - survey, fence, or.....?
[re: Autotech]
04/16/03 08:45 PM
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There are obviously some signifigant differences in how things are done in different parts of the country.
There are two reasons a complete survey is not being done prior to settlement - First, due to disclosure laws here in PA the seller is obligated to disclose all information regarding easements, leases, leins, etc. Failure to do so is reason to void the sale, even after closing, and is an actionable offence (in other words we could void the sale, void the sale and be compensated, keep the property and be compensated, etc). Also, prior to closing, the title company is obligated to research for issues such as these. My parents went through this with a home they bought a few years back and the title company ended up paying the costs involved in making the property legally what they had confirmed it was. Yes its a huge PITA, but there are recourses.
Second is cost. If I could get this property surveyed for $500 I'd do it tomorrow, but I have been quoted anywhere between $4000-$6000 and up. I guess everything isn't bigger in Texas!!! 
This property is located in a fairly residential area (the remains of a once grand farming operation) where the property lines are pretty much straight lines. I have seen a complete plot plan from when the subdivision in question was built, and am hopeful that the owner will pass it, or a copy, on to me. I have asked for it, so we'll see. If I do get this plot plan, I'm hoping that it, along with some careful searching for permanent survey posts that should be present, and some nice conversation, will be all I need to get the offending neighbors to comply. Otherwise I'll have to pony up for at least a partial survey...
Thanks for all the input folks!
Gregg
Remember - If I sound like I know nothing about farming it's because I really don't!
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WVBill
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Re: Encroachment - survey, fence, or.....?
[re: Autotech]
04/17/03 06:44 AM
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There is a GPS Discussion thread in the "Related Topics" area over on TBN that talks about some pretty remarkable (to me, anyway) capabilities of fairly inexpensive (easily less than $400) GPS units.
Gregg, you say In reply to:
If I do get this plot plan, I'm hoping that it, along with some careful searching for permanent survey posts that should be present,
.
I'm thinking that you should be able to use the plot plan or the survey map from the previous survey, plus one of those GPS units to go lay out your property lines yourself. The GPS will at least help guide you to the exact spot to look for the permanent survey posts.
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MarkV
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Re: Encroachment - survey, fence, or.....?
[re: WVBill]
04/17/03 07:27 AM
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Thanks for the input on survey costs. It sounds like it can vary by region and size of property to survey. Any thoughts on placing of field fencing. On the line? Inside the line? How much if inside?
MarkV
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MikePA
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Re: Encroachment - survey, fence, or.....?
[re: Autotech]
04/17/03 04:16 PM
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I used to work for my FIL who was a Civil Eng/Surveyor and we got involved in this stuff. Have a CE/Surveyor survey just the property line in question and also ask them to mark the corners of all the adjoining properties, in addition to the endpoints of your property.
You might also want to tell them what to tell the neighbors when whey come out to see what the 'workmen' are doing 'cuz the neighbors will come out to see what's going on. 
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Gary_in_Indiana
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Re: Encroachment - survey, fence, or.....?
[re: MikePA]
04/18/03 06:14 PM
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the neighbors will come out to see what's going on
That alone might solve some potential problems. When the neighbors realize where the line is, they might reconsider their encroachments.
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MikePA
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Re: Encroachment - survey, fence, or.....?
[re: MikePA]
04/19/03 04:53 AM
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I just thought of this...
You might want to head to the county courthouse and get copies of your deed, as well as copies of all the deeds of the adjoining properties, on the line in question. Make 2 copies and give a set to the surveyor. It'll save them time, you some money and you will be able to read through them all and make sure all the neighbors back property lines have the same direction description.
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chrisjbell
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Re: Encroachment - survey, fence, or.....?
[re: jtd]
04/19/03 02:08 PM
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In Palo Alto, CA, about a dozen years ago
In Paly a dozen years ago, mere mortals could afford a house. My father in law just sold his fairly modest house there for an absolutely staggering sum...
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jtd
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Re: Encroachment - survey, fence, or.....?
[re: chrisjbell]
04/19/03 06:49 PM
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We sold in July 2001 about 6 months or so after the peak. Even so, prices are still very high from what my friends tell me. Once you leave, it's very difficult to go back. Although with the crowding, etc, I can't see why. I did live there 30 years.
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tenebrous
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Re: Encroachment - survey, fence, or.....?
[re: Autotech]
04/20/03 10:31 AM
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I had a very similar problem. I had the land surveyed and told the surveyor to flag all the areas that were encroaching on our property. There were twenty or so homes on the back line of the property and twelve had developed or put structures on my property.
After the flags were in I wrote letters to the twelve and informed them that I was going to construct a fence on the property line and they had thirty days to remove all improvements.
All but two were very cooperative. After a patient conversations, there was only one that was a problem. He just flatly refused to remove his two sheds, firewood pile, compost bins, junk pile and an old car. His response was I was unreasonable because he had no other place else to put it all. I will add that he was a good 150 feet on my property. 
He repeatedly pulled out the surveyor's flags until I put steel pins in concrete. It was six months until the county court gave him seven days to remove everything. He did not. So with the blessing of the court and under the supervision of a sheriff deputy I used a skid loader to move his things over the property line.
He complained that I did great damage to his belongings and the judge asked him if he could have done better himself. When he said “I certainly could have”, the judge told him that then that is what he should have done. The judge also told him that if there were any more problems my neighbor was going to jail for contempt of court.
The neighbor sold his house soon after and moved away. I guess I was just to mean to him. I also have had no problems since he moved. I keep the field mowed and the kids from the homes play there. I have been caught a few times just sitting under a tree watching the kids play ball. That is all the rent I need. 
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WVBill
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Re: Encroachment - survey, fence, or.....?
[re: tenebrous]
04/21/03 08:47 AM
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tenebrous: In reply to:
I keep the field mowed and the kids from the homes play there. I have been caught a few times just sitting under a tree watching the kids play ball.
It's sad but in the sue-happy society we live in you could be setting yourself up for a liability lawsuit. One of the kids turns an ankle running for a ball. I can here it now: "Well your honor, Mr. Tenebrous should have maintained his field in such a condition as to prevent turning ankles. By continuously mowing the field and even watching the children play he accepted that responsibility. Johnny was well on his way to a career in the Major Leagues, but now...." 
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tenebrous
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Re: Encroachment - survey, fence, or.....?
[re: WVBill]
04/21/03 09:08 AM
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It's sad but in the sue-happy society we live in you could be setting yourself up for a liability lawsuit. One of the kids turns an ankle running for a ball. I can here it now: "Well your honor, Mr. Tenebrous should have maintained his field in such a condition as to prevent turning ankles. By continuously mowing the field and even watching the children play he accepted that responsibility. Johnny was well on his way to a career in the Major Leagues, but now...."
Bill you are correct no matter how sad. I just make sure that I have plenty of insurance and try to not let law suits govern my life. My son is a lawyer and he has said more than once that anyone can sue about anything.
I have spent over thirty-five years working with children and parents. I have been threatened with law suits but never had one filed. It always just fades away when I don't fold to their wishes.
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chrisjbell
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Re: Encroachment - survey, fence, or.....?
[re: jtd]
04/21/03 06:11 PM
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Once you leave, it's very difficult to go back. Although with the crowding, etc, I can't see why. I did live there 30 years.
It is hard to go back. I grew up down there (Orinda) and I have quite a few friends that are now living in Walnut Creek, Concord, etc. to try and stay in the same area but where they can (sort of  ) afford to live.
I chose to move "far away" and for what I paid for my 10 acres (and pretty nice house) I couldn't touch real estate down there.
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chrisjbell
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Re: Encroachment - survey, fence, or.....?
[re: tenebrous]
04/21/03 06:15 PM
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The neighbor sold his house soon after and moved away. I guess I was just to mean to him.
Yeah, you sound pretty mean (NOT! ). Seems to me like you handled things really well. I agree with the folks that warned you about liability - I'd say just make sure you have a good insurance policy and let the kids play :-).
If anything happens, your insurance company's lawyers can handle it . Too bad it has to be that way, isn't it?
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hazmat
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Re: Encroachment - survey, fence, or.....?
[re: WVBill]
04/23/03 01:43 PM
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Hmmm, not so sure about the "do it yourself" survey. I'd think it would be open to "interpretation" Consult a lawyer, you'll probably want one to review your purchase and sales agreement anyway.
Don't know how hot to sell the owner of the property is, but you may be able to get a credit out of them for the cost of the survey as with the encroachments, the useable acreage is not what they are advertising. Talk to your realtor.
Hazmat
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hazmat
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Re: Encroachment - survey, fence, or.....?
[re: MikePA]
04/23/03 01:46 PM
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You might want to head to the county courthouse and get copies of your deed, as well as copies of all the deeds of the adjoining properties, on the line in question. Make 2 copies and give a set to the surveyor. It'll save them time, you some money and you will be able to read through them all and make sure all the neighbors back property lines have the same direction description.
Excellant Idea Mike. If the property lines have the same direction description, it should make things easier.
Hazmat
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MikePA
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Re: Encroachment - survey, fence, or.....?
[re: hazmat]
04/23/03 06:57 PM
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As the rookie in my FIL's CE/Surveying business, I was the person that got to go to the courthouse to do this. Not only did I get the deed for the property we were surveying, I got deeds for all the adjoining properties as well. Plus I frequently traced deeds back through a couple of transfers. It was not unusual to find typos, number transpositions, etc. in parcel descriptions. When we bought our current house, I traced it back to the late 1800s.
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herbenus
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Re: Encroachment - survey, fence, or.....?
[re: Autotech]
04/24/03 07:40 AM
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Another thing to consider, since the cost of a survey is so high: rent your own equipment. My new neighbor had a perimeter survey done. I didn't like the placement of the stakes. After complaining and no action from him, I rented a surveyors transit. Locating the iron rods at each corner, I shot a straight line down and drove my own stake in every 50 feet. He was off by up to 2 feet in one place. Now maybe my survey wasn't legal, but I felt it was up to him to dispute it. I guess he didn't want "his" fence on my property so he had survey redone. My stakes were right on and he moved his.
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jwstewar
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Re: Encroachment - survey, fence, or.....?
[re: herbenus]
05/09/03 01:02 PM
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Sounds similar to a story my MIL/FIL went through last year. Their neighbors septic system started leaking and draining to under my FIL's house. My FIL asked him to fix it. He got all up set and started rainting and raving and eventually started causing all kind of trouble. He then started saying their fence was in the wrong spot. It was 2' on his property. They had put the fence up where they thought the line was except there was a ditch right on the line so they pulled the fence in toward them a bit. The guy didn't believe them so he decided to have his and their property surveyed. It turns out he was right. The fence was in the wrong place. It was on my in-law's property too far by about 10 or 12' . Needless to say we moved that fence pretty quick. He finally got so upset that he sold and moved.
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gauthier
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Re: Encroachment - survey, fence, or.....?
[re: jwstewar]
05/10/03 07:13 PM
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Yep those surveryers make me nervious,but at times,like laywers,they are nessasary.Has anybody out there ever heard of earth wobble concerning true north,south,e.t.c.?I learned the hard way about earthwobble,didn't loose much but the last time it was surveyed was 60 years ago,there was about a 2 degree difference. RICHARD GAUTHIER
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egon
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Re: Encroachment - survey, fence, or.....?
[re: gauthier]
05/11/03 05:50 AM
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Presecion of the axis. I think that's what it is called. Surveying will take it into account. Chances are todays methods and instruments are much more accurate than those of days gone by.
Egon
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