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Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | (show all) EJB Silver Member Reged: 09/15/02 Posts: 243 Loc: Western, Massachusetts Suburban life pitting farmers vs. neighbors       01/02/03 09:48 AM Edit   Reply   http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/4855777.htm Comments?...I'll reserve mine for now.... Post Extras:       egon Veteran Member Reged: 09/12/02 Posts: 3031 Loc: Nova Scotia,Canada Re: Suburban life pitting farmers vs. neighbors [re: EJB]       01/02/03 10:43 AM Edit   Reply   The Farmer: When he is gone where do we get our food from? It would seem the Farmer is an endangered species looked upon by urbal development proponents [ spell someone makes big bucks ] as an impiediment to thier operation. Even worse is the conversion of very viable agricultural soil to asphalt,concrete and manicured lawn requireing a preponderance of chemicals detrimental to the enviroment. Perhaps our numbers are outstripping our resourses. Perhaps a major change is inevitable to introduce proper functioning public transportation and eliminating the thousands of square miles of concrete and asphalt covering the surface of the earth. The answer I do not have for a wise man I am not. Egon Post Extras:       Argee Silver Member Reged: 09/12/02 Posts: 216 Loc: Northern Michigan Re: Suburban life pitting farmers vs. neighbors [re: EJB]       01/02/03 04:27 PM Edit   Reply   He said his neighbors should have considered more carefully where they were going to live. Her we go again! That sums it up. People move out to the country to "get away from it all" and the want to change the country environment to suit them. They want to edict new laws for this and that and end up right back where they started, wanting to "get away from it all". I think it was "beenthere" who posted this quote in part from the infamous Yard Lights thread between a farmer and a newcomer: "Did you really like this area when you first came here?" Answer "yes". Comment "Then leave it that way." That pretty well applies here. Argee Post Extras:       EJB Silver Member Reged: 09/15/02 Posts: 243 Loc: Western, Massachusetts Re: Suburban life pitting farmers vs. neighbors [re: Argee]       01/03/03 05:53 AM Edit   Reply   Well thats pretty much how I see it too...some people are awfully naive about what living in the country is really like...its happening where I live too and I expect that its only going to get progressively worse. Post Extras:       cowboydoc Veteran Member Reged: 09/11/02 Posts: 642 Re: Suburban life pitting farmers vs. neighbors [re: EJB]       01/03/03 08:23 AM Edit   Reply   I deal with this on an almost daily basis. What the heck do these people think the country is? It happens everywhere. The farmers, ranchers, etc. do their jobs the way it's been done for a thousand years. Then some city jerks come in and want to change everything so it is just like the city. I can't believe the nerve of these people. It's the country darnit it's not Beverly Hills!!!! Pack up your bags and your fancy cars and houses and put them on a corner lot in the city. Don't come out here to the country and try and change everything to be sterile because it's not!! Post Extras:       fenneran Member Reged: 09/12/02 Posts: 40 Loc: Staunton, VA (Shenandoah Valley) Re: Suburban life pitting farmers vs. neighbors [re: cowboydoc]       01/03/03 01:38 PM Edit   Reply   They just want everything to look like an issue of "Country Living" magazine. You know: A beautiful yard filled with flowers, a small dog or cat on the wrought-iron chair, a gentle breeze blowing in off of the meadow, a babbling brook in the background. Then they move in and all of the sudden its: "golly, what in the world is that smell?" and "I thought those cows we saw when we bought the place were very picturesque, now they just smell bad." or "I wish that rooster wouldn't crow at 5:00." -Frank Post Extras:       gws Member Reged: 09/13/02 Posts: 69 Re: Suburban life pitting farmers vs. neighbors [re: EJB]       01/03/03 03:08 PM Edit   Reply   City people forget. Fresh country air sometimes smells like manure..... Post Extras:       Hayseed Silver Member Reged: 09/11/02 Posts: 239 Loc: Beach City, TX near Trinity Bay Re: Suburban life pitting farmers vs. neighbors [re: EJB]       01/04/03 01:34 AM Edit   Reply   We are getting very close to building a house on our three acres in the "country." I emphasize the word country because it has always been the country until the last decade or so, when it started getting more and more populated by the year. In another five or ten years it will be just another extension of suburbia. Until then I look forward to living across the road from a 160 acre pasture, complete with cows. It has been for sale for years and has so far not sold and if I could have my way it would never sell. I much prefer the company of cows to that of a lot of humans I have known in my life. I love to watch cows, I love to listen to them and I don't find their smells at all unpleasant. Who ever owns that pasture and cows can sleep well at night knowing that at least one neighbor won't give them grief for doing what it is that country folks do the best - be country folks, cows and all. I may have lived in the city for the past 26 years but I never stopped missing the country life I enjoyed the first 20 years of my life. As far as I am concerned clueless folks from the city should do the world a favor and stay there if the best they can offer is trying to make country folks conform to their idea of how the world should be. Chris Post Extras:       Hydraman New Member Reged: 09/28/02 Posts: 14 Re: Suburban life pitting farmers vs. neighbors [re: EJB]       01/04/03 02:49 PM Edit   Reply   Mebe we need a new law-- in order to buy a "nice place out in the country" ya gotta be able to train the farmers' cows to flush!!! Post Extras:       RichZ Veteran Member Reged: 09/12/02 Posts: 558 Loc: Cambridge, New York in beautiful Washington County, next to Vermont Re: Suburban life pitting farmers vs. neighbors [re: EJB]       01/06/03 08:21 AM Edit   Reply   I'm quite sure the farm was there long before the suburban houses were built. What did they expect? As someone said earlier, you have to plan where you move. We want to farm, and moved to an agricultural district. Our neighbors are thrilled that we're putting our farm back into active farming. I guess we're lucky! Rich "What a long strange trip it's been." Post Extras:       Argee Silver Member Reged: 09/12/02 Posts: 216 Loc: Northern Michigan Re: Suburban life pitting farmers vs. neighbors [re: RichZ]       01/06/03 09:58 AM Edit   Reply   My warranty deed for my property contains the following clause: "The above-described premises may be located within the vicinity of farmland or a farm operation. Generally accepted agricultural and management practices which may generate noise, dust, odors, and other associated conditions may be used and are protected by the Michigan Right to Farm Act." I believe this clause and the Right to Farm Act gives the farmer some legal footing. I hope I never have to test it, but inasmuch as I will be raising pigs this year, it's nice to know I have it just in case I'm challenged. Argee Post Extras:       earthmother Member Reged: 10/16/02 Posts: 42 Loc: Cambridge, NY, in the beautiful foothills of the Green Mountains. Re: Suburban life pitting farmers vs. neighbors [re: EJB]       01/06/03 12:08 PM Edit   Reply   Yep- it's yuppies complaining again! This reminds me of living on Long Island. We had a famous fireworks factory there (Gruchi), and some idiot decided to put a housing development across the street. Of course, even bigger idiots bought these houses. About 25 years ago, there was an explosion at the fireworks factory that killed 3 family members. Of course there was damage at this development, such as broken windows, etc. The owners of these houses complained and WON!!! Now who in their right mind would move across the street from a business that has tons of gunpowder!!?? This is the same issue.If these people are so upset by having fly "poo-poo" on their deck- oh excuse me-Veranda- screen it in. This way you would have no flies or any other insect. The country has insects, whether there are cows or not. We don't have the car exhaust here to kill them. I wish this kind of people would just go away and hide under a rock somewhere. Martha Steward does not live in the country- she's on Long Island and Connecticut. Post Extras:       cowboydoc Veteran Member Reged: 09/11/02 Posts: 642 Re: Suburban life pitting farmers vs. neighbors [re: earthmother]       01/06/03 02:16 PM Edit   Reply   Hey Hey We finally agree earthmother. LOL Post Extras:       Stoneheartfarm Veteran Member Reged: 10/10/02 Posts: 792 Loc: West Central Michigan Re: Suburban life pitting farmers vs. neighbors [re: earthmother]       01/06/03 06:13 PM Edit   Reply   Actually, I remember 60 minutes doing a special on a Florida farmer who was fighting with the Golf Course that had been built next door (and apparently down wind). Naturally, the GC guys complained about the smell. So, the farmer began playing Country music real loud to keep his critters happy. (It's a "Country Club", right? ) Never did find out how it ended. Anybody know? Steve Post Extras:       AndyF Gold Member Reged: 09/11/02 Posts: 312 Loc: Phelps, NY Re: Suburban life pitting farmers vs. neighbors [re: EJB]       01/07/03 08:27 AM Edit   Reply   Here's another interesting article: http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0102/p14s01-lihc.html Regarding the yuppie/farmer conflicts, it is unfortunate that these occur, but many of them are just natural consequences of a farmer selling off his frontage or changing his farming practices. If the frontage hadn't been sold and the township hadn't allowed residential construction the problem would not exist because the complainers wouldn't live there. Or, if the farmer had kept his dairy at 200 cows rather than expanding to 1,000 with a huge manure lagoon, or put in a pork or poultry CAFO the neighbors wouldn't be complaining because the smells and sounds from a general farm or smaller dairy are a lot less potent than an industrial scale one. I could go on, but you get the idea. Encouraging residential development in a farming area or implementing industrial style and scale animal farming practices in an area with many non-farmers are recipes for confrontation and conflict. Post Extras:       cowboydoc Veteran Member Reged: 09/11/02 Posts: 642 Re: Suburban life pitting farmers vs. neighbors [re: AndyF]       01/07/03 08:50 AM Edit   Reply   What it all comes down to is greed. The local counties and state want more revenue from taxes. One of the best ways they do this is through property taxes. They take good farmland and set appraisal high because this is what the ground would make as developed ground. This forces up the taxes. The farmer complains and takes it before the board. Then the land is converted to residential use. Now the farmer sells the land for a huge profit, the land is developed, and now the county has a huge tax base. From 250 acres that was bringing in less than a $1000 a year in taxes they've just created 2,000,000 or better in property taxes. Don't think this happens. Just come to where I live. It happened to the best farmground in this area and it's happening to some of my ground right now. If you don't want to sell they drive up the taxes. Then you still don't want to sell they take it anyway by domain laws. Not fair at all but it's happening. Awhile back I posted on this at TBN. They jacked my taxes way up on a 250 acre parcel. I took them to court and so they changed the ag to residential zoning. I pretty much am left with the choice of paying a huge tax bill or selling the ground. There were three developers at the county hearing that put in offers to the board for the property to determine it's value. I will probably wind up selling this ground and it will be turned into houses. It's going to make me a tremendous amount of money but it still doesn't make it right and I've got a pit in my stomach thinking about doing it. It's all greed pure and simple and that is why you are seeing the farmer and the farmland become an extinct breed. The family farmer anymore is very rare. Most farming now is being done by big corporations and it will continue to be that way. Post Extras:       Stoneheartfarm Veteran Member Reged: 10/10/02 Posts: 792 Loc: West Central Michigan Re: Suburban life pitting farmers vs. neighbors [re: cowboydoc]       01/07/03 11:32 AM Edit   Reply   If you don't want to sell, they drive up the taxes CBD, That sounds familliar... but not from what is happening today. Didn't something similar happen in the 1800's? Water rights, railroad rights, something like that (I'm afraid my history is a bit rusty.) Steve Post Extras:       AndyF Gold Member Reged: 09/11/02 Posts: 312 Loc: Phelps, NY Re: Suburban life pitting farmers vs. neighbors [re: cowboydoc]       01/07/03 11:48 AM Edit   Reply   I'm sorry to hear that you are getting the short end of the stick regarding some land you would like to keep in production. It is unfortunate when local government is so short sighted. Too often the only recourse a person has is to vote with their feet and move. I remember reading about a Michigan Apple grower who had to sue his township to prevent forcible annexation of his orchards by a local town so that they could rezone his property residential and grow their community. After several years he finally won, but it almost bankrupted him. I lived through what you are describing in, what for several years was the fastest growing city in Ohio. What had been a rural area when we purchased our 90 year old house on the edge of town in ten years was engulfed by golf course communities and SUVs. I sold, made a few dollars and am now in an agricultural area in upstate NY. Unfortunately, even here the town government is on the "gotta increase the tax base" treadmill and encourages people to apply for variances so that they can set up their doublewide or build a home on 1-5 acres in the town's Agricultural Districts. What amazes me about this is that for government as a whole, residential properties typically consume more in services than they pay in taxes. Without a substantial non-residential tax base, school taxes can quickly go through the roof. Post Extras:       wingnut Gold Member Reged: 09/12/02 Posts: 260 Loc: mid-Michigan Re: Suburban life pitting farmers vs. neighbors [re: cowboydoc]       01/07/03 12:27 PM Edit   Reply   Richard, back in Alberta ... the Provincial government solved that problem by passing a law to make it difficult and/or illegal to convert farmland to residential. This was because too much of that was happening and the less-shortsighted people in government realized that food had to come from somewhere (and was easier to grow/raise) on ag land than scrub land. Heck, even if you want to sll of some land ... you can only subdivide one 5 acres parcel off your (can't remember if it's 1.4 section or larger) land. Emininet Domain is the most abused and undemocratic law on the books. Right behind it is the law that allows police forces, courts and governments to profit from seizing the (presumed but unproven) proceeds of "crime". it's a shame that common sense isn't http://www.dahlhausminiatures.com Post Extras:       dsgsr New Member Reged: 10/11/02 Posts: 5 Loc: Franklin,Maine Re: Suburban life pitting farmers vs. neighbors [re: EJB]       01/17/03 09:06 AM Edit   Reply   What happened to my post? David Post Extras:       MikePA Gold Member Reged: 09/10/02 Posts: 338 Loc: Southern PA Re: Suburban life pitting farmers vs. neighbors [re: dsgsr]       01/18/03 05:20 AM Edit   Reply   What happened to my post? Welcome to CBN, David! I clicked on your userid and it shows that you've only made one post, the post asking what happened to your post. Post Extras:       Gary_in_Indiana Gold Member Reged: 09/15/02 Posts: 260 Loc: Fort Wayne, Indiana Re: Suburban life pitting farmers vs. neighbors [re: MikePA]       01/18/03 11:25 PM Edit   Reply   Mike, How could he be a 'Silver Member' with only one post? Or did you mean only one post on this thread?? Post Extras:       GaryM Veteran Member Reged: 09/12/02 Posts: 1212 Loc: Warrenton, MO Re: Suburban life pitting farmers vs. neighbors [re: Gary_in_Indiana]       01/18/03 11:32 PM Edit   Reply   dsgr is listed as a new member, not Silver. Gary ---------------------------------------------- Hey! Aren't you supposed to be working? Post Extras:       dsgsr New Member Reged: 10/11/02 Posts: 5 Loc: Franklin,Maine Re: Suburban life pitting farmers vs. neighbors [re: EJB]       01/20/03 05:43 PM Edit   Reply   Thank you for the Welcome. It was probably something I did to mess up the posting. Anyway I was just ranting about Outa-Staters moving to Maine and changing our way of life, driving up the price of land, etc. something I do too much of. Yes I'm a (New Member) I've been lurking around this and the Tractor By Net and other Forums since their conception about 5-years now. I don't post much, guess thats cause I'm NEW, inexperienced that sort of thing David Post Extras:       Argee Silver Member Reged: 09/12/02 Posts: 216 Loc: Northern Michigan Re: Suburban life pitting farmers vs. neighbors [re: dsgsr]       01/20/03 06:17 PM Edit   Reply   Welcome dsgsr!! Regretfully people moving into the countryside and driving up the price of land isn't happening in just Maine. It's happening everywhere. Many people have more disposable income now than they ever had and can afford two places. One in town and the other in the country as a future retirement home. That's the price we pay for progress What gripes me is when they move in and a few months or years down the road, they want to improve it by having similar services and government like they have in their city home. It proves that they didn't research the rural lifestyle well enough before they purchased that tranquil country setting. They didn't know that Farmer Jones next door raises pigs and cattle and uses the manure on his fields or that he has a yard light so he can find his way to the barn at night. They didn't realize that many rural folk take care of their garbage disposal by digging a hole in the back forty and create their own landfill complete with all the smells and pests that come with it. They don't realize that the tax base won't support trash pick-up or timely road plowing in the winter and dust control in the summer. All of a sudden their little Eden is not to their liking so they go about changing all that is wrong with it. They forgot what attracted them their in the first place was the simplicity of the lifestyle. So don't feel alone. Your not the only one who gets worked up over it. Argee Post Extras:       wingnut Gold Member Reged: 09/12/02 Posts: 260 Loc: mid-Michigan Re: Suburban life pitting farmers vs. neighbors [re: Argee]       01/21/03 08:17 AM Edit   Reply   They forgot what attracted them their in the first place was the simplicity of the lifestyle. Actually ... I think that, in most of these cases, they were attracted by what they imagined the lifestyle to be. Too many of them think country life is "Green Acres" or "Pettycoat Junction". it's a shame that common sense isn't http://www.dahlhausminiatures.com Post Extras:       dsgsr New Member Reged: 10/11/02 Posts: 5 Loc: Franklin,Maine Re: Suburban life pitting farmers vs. neighbors [re: EJB]       01/21/03 10:02 AM Edit   Reply   Well said from both of ya. The wife and I have 37 acres at this spot and have come to the realization it's not enough, we have people from away on all sides of us and some of them we can see. We need to move up north buy a couple hundred acres and build in the middle of it. Its too bad cause the wife likes being by the Ocean. David Post Extras:       lamarbur Re: Suburban life pitting farmers vs. neighbors [re: Argee]       01/21/03 10:10 AM Edit   Reply   I've seen this over and over. People from Hartford CT and it's surrounding area, move up to Union CT/Holland MA area. THey buy a home, register to vote, (both within a few days of each other). A month or so goes by and they call the highway dep't. When does the garbage truck come by? What do you mean by pump a spetic system? Did the town shut off the water supply for any particular reason? The questions are endless. The answer is simple. REALTORS. Realtors in this neighborhood tend to "forget or gloss over" reality. They forget to mention septic systems, each property has it's own water supply, private roads, hire your own trash removal, etc, etc , etc.. Realtors have laws to stop this, and still, they find a way to give out minimal information to make another sale. In the meantime these new registered voters always show up at town meetings, now wanting street lights, side walks, you name it. As a past selectman, I always asked in front of the crowd, who besides deer, squirles and other animals will use these lights, sidewalks, etc? It has created major increases in taxes, and yet we cannot increase the tangible needs such as highway, library etc. Well, I rambled on long enough. Post Extras:       hazmat Gold Member Reged: 09/11/02 Posts: 417 Loc: West Newbury, MA Re: Suburban life pitting farmers vs. neighbors [re: lamarbur]       01/21/03 10:39 AM Edit   Reply   I don't know how rural y'all would consider my town (pop 4,200 in 15 sq miles) but one selling point was that it had a master plan in place. It's prime directive is to "preserve the rural character" of the town. It's an interesting mix of suburbia (cult-de-sac developments) and farming (apple orchards and x-mas tree farms are big). You need to beat the suburbanites at their own game. Become active in local politics. Force your town / county to have a master plan & appropriate zoning laws in place before it gets too crowded. This is one case where an ounce of prevention is worth well more than a pound of cure. here's our town plan West Newbury Town Plan Official West Newbury Home Page Hazmat Post Extras:       lamarbur Re: Suburban life pitting farmers vs. neighbors [re: hazmat]       01/21/03 12:51 PM Edit   Reply   well let's see, past selectman, deputy fire chief, deputy highway surveyor, constable 13 years, economic developement, finance board, cemetery, so many ad-hoc committee's I lost track, usually building related, present chairman of fire bldg cmtte, clerk of the works for said bldg, cable commission and a few others to boot. 20 years active in town politics. We up and sold and moved 100 feet out of Holland and into Union CT. Got so sick and burned up. I see a big problem as the older generation, most now snow birds, haven't enough numbers to activate a vote. We have all these new (mostly East Hartford and a sprinkling of Worcester city people) who have the majority numbers. Sad thing is Holland is an intransient town as these people come and go about every 14 months on avg. Don't want business, etc. They will complain about taxes but won't help to alleviate problem. Was 600 people in town when I moved there in 74. Has 2200 now, the 1600 difference being city people. Union CT has 649 population. Holland is also high in ultra liberals. I can say this as I once was republican party chrman of 26 people, remainder of 1100 voters are Dems. Now, about half the dems re-registered as independents. Repubs are now showing 79 or so out of 1100 voters.. Makes for a pretty much one sided argument. We, wife and I, got totally wore out fighting it and decided to move. Post Extras:       hazmat Gold Member Reged: 09/11/02 Posts: 417 Loc: West Newbury, MA Re: Suburban life pitting farmers vs. neighbors [re: lamarbur]       01/21/03 01:05 PM Edit   Reply   Well, surely looks like you put up a good fight! Looks like the "enemy" outnumbered you. My reply wasn't specific to your situation (you just happened to be the last poster), but a general one urging others to do as you apparantly already have. I'm probably preaching to the choir here. Hazmat Post Extras:       lamarbur Re: Suburban life pitting farmers vs. neighbors [re: hazmat]       01/21/03 01:53 PM Edit   Reply   Hazmat No, I certainly understood the post wasn't directed at me personaly. I am just stating there are people out here who have been through this type ordeal, tried what they could, and still got beaten back. By the same token, I probably wouldn't make it long in any city. Guess a lot of it is what you you born into and stayed with.. I talked to you several times onTBN I think you have an L48, which is what I would like to get someday. Post Extras:       hazmat Gold Member Reged: 09/11/02 Posts: 417 Loc: West Newbury, MA Re: Suburban life pitting farmers vs. neighbors [re: lamarbur]       01/21/03 02:20 PM Edit   Reply   I talked to you several times onTBN I think you have an L48, which is what I would like to get someday. You might have me confused with somebody else. I am Hazmat on TBN, but I've got a itty bitty little New Holland TC18. Not a Mighty Kubota L48 (I'd like one of those too someday). Hazmat Post Extras:       SteveB Member Reged: 09/18/02 Posts: 97 Loc: Eastern Connecticut Re: Suburban life pitting farmers vs. neighbors [re: lamarbur]       01/21/03 10:07 PM Edit   Reply   What's the use. What the Yuppies don't get the Indians will. Might be better off with a little more development up your way to reduce the number of available large parcels. But then there's the state forest and the yale forest up for grabs. 84 is right there and would provide by far the easiest access to the greater Hartford and Springfield areas. You guys are screwed as far as the casino thing goes. Post Extras:       lamarbur Re: Suburban life pitting farmers vs. neighbors [re: SteveB]       01/22/03 06:15 AM Edit   Reply   Steve, I don't know where your from as you didn't fill out the profile. However, I highly doubt the Indian thing will come. No one here wants it for number one and number two, they have failed twice to prove to the Bureau of indian Affairs, the minimun requirements to meet sovereignty.. I'm not against any indian tribe wanting something like gambling. I am however against them having sovereignty as it does in all mom and pop local stores and creates many other problems people normally aren't watching for. By the way, you will see this miss match Mashapaug Indian group be allowed to set up a little west of here in Massachusetts as soon as Mass passes the OK for their gambling outfit. Post Extras:       SteveB Member Reged: 09/18/02 Posts: 97 Loc: Eastern Connecticut Re: Suburban life pitting farmers vs. neighbors [re: lamarbur]       01/23/03 08:17 AM Edit   Reply   I live about ten minutes from the Plainfield Dog Track, so I'm screwed too. I’m about 95% sure that is where the Eastern Pequot’s are going to put their casino. The Eastern Pequot’s have got their preliminary recognition. I don’t think the recent repeal of the Las Vegas Night law is going to stop them. You guys have the Nipmuc tribe to worry about up there in Union. It is there stated desire to locate a CT casino along 84 near the MA border and that is in their original territory. They received preliminary recognition by the head of the BIA in the closing days of the Clinton Administration despite recommendation to the contrary by the BIA investigative arm. The Bush administration later reversed this preliminary recognition pending further review. But you can’t really revoke something once it’s given especially if it is politically incorrect to do so. Opposition to casino gambling is mounting, but I fear too late. I believe the current strategy (opposing tribal recognition) is a red herring used by politicians (and maybe the Indians too) as a delay tactic until as many casinos go in as possible. There is really no sound argument for opposing tribal recognition. If there are a group of Indians that want to be recognized as such by the federal government there is nothing wrong with that. To oppose such recognition is politically incorrect and is a long losing battle. The real problem is the coupling of casino gambling and recognition. Being an Indian (or 1/16th Indian) does not entitle you exclusive rights to a multi-billion dollar gambling empire. This is bestowing extraordinary special rights upon citizens according to their racial background, which is the very definition of discrimination. Casino gambling is not legal in CT (for I can’t open a casino) and therefore the federal Indian Gaming act should not apply in CT. Casino gaming based on race can’t be justified as being constitutionally legal. But that’s what big money buys in a corrupt state government. I have nothing against Indians being recognized as such, and I’m actually not opposed to casino gambling. What I’m really opposed to is the corruption and discrimination that is Indian gaming in CT. This is extraordinary special rights bestows upon people based on there race (elevating everyone in the tribe to multi-millionaires) and is a corruption of the Indian Gaming Act that was bought with big gaming investor money. It is not fair as it benefits only a small racial minority but cost all citizens of the state. It does not even benefit all state Indians. And of course there are hundreds of thousands dirt poor Indians on reservations in the mid-west. Is it fair that CT tribes of a few dozen (who are barely Indians compared to their counterparts in the mid-west) are making billions while most don’t benefit at all. Sorry to vent, it’s a touchy subject for me. I think we are likely to see several more casinos squeezed in before people finally get organized enough to make an impact. Plainfield, Union, Bridgeport, and another in Litchfield County. Most state politicians are really in favor of casinos even though they may say otherwise. Post Extras:       dummy Silver Member Reged: 10/03/02 Posts: 105 Loc: Southern Maryland Re: Suburban life pitting farmers vs. neighbors [re: lamarbur]       01/23/03 11:44 AM Edit   Reply   You guys are not alone in the upswing of newcomers. Our latest and greatest battle is the local (county) government trying to lay claim to land the state purchased to keep it from being developed. Now, the "new locals" and the county politicians think it ought to be changed into ball parks and an equestrian area. Might be Ok, but the county does not properly maintain the ball fields they already have. And why in the world the politicians think tax dollars should pay for an equestrian center is beyond me. There is a state park 10 minutes away that already has equestrian trails in place which get little to no use. Post Extras:       Al_Wa Silver Member Reged: 09/12/02 Posts: 237 Re: Suburban life pitting farmers vs. neighbors [re: SteveB]       01/23/03 01:41 PM Edit   Reply   I find it a little ironic, under a thread titled "Suburban life pitting farmers Vs. Neigbors" that non native folks condem other non native folks for trying to change their life styles and then condem native folks trying to change theirs, and this after the they have destroyed the native folks lifestyle?? No offense I hope, just a thought. Post Extras:       Justaplain Member Reged: 11/08/02 Posts: 41 Re: Suburban life pitting farmers vs. neighbors [re: Al_Wa]       01/23/03 01:58 PM Edit   Reply   An old NH saying. "The last guy in always wants to lock the door" Post Extras:       SteveB Member Reged: 09/18/02 Posts: 97 Loc: Eastern Connecticut Re: Suburban life pitting farmers vs. neighbors [re: Al_Wa]       01/23/03 02:27 PM Edit   Reply   No offense taken and I see the irony. I don't consider myself solely responsible for the actions of our forefathers. Like I said, I'm not against Indians and I'm not against Indians being recognized as a group. I'm not even against Casinos. What I am against is citizens of America receiving special rights based on their race. That is discrimination, by definition. Who said just because you are an Indian in CT you get exclusive rights to a gambling empire smack dab between Boston and New York City. Man, what a deal. I'm not even against CT Indians having casinos, as long as I can also have a casino because I'm also a resident of CT. That is really the only way to make the situation fair again now that the casino Jeanie is out of the bottle. Our only hope is that enough our neighbors do the same thing so our state doesn't become another Vegas. I'm thinking of suing the state to open my own casino Post Extras:       wingnut Gold Member Reged: 09/12/02 Posts: 260 Loc: mid-Michigan Re: Suburban life pitting farmers vs. neighbors [re: Al_Wa]       01/23/03 03:28 PM Edit   Reply   Al ... I just finished reading a long article last night pointing out many of the instances wherein casino interests used indian tribes to get casinos going. The common practice seemed to be to immediately launch a lawsuit claiming half a city (eg Urbana ILL including all of the university campus) and then keep pushing until the morons on city coucil, in desparation, ok a casino, donate the land to the tribe, and maybe even kick on some tax money to get out from under. The indians are certainly being used in these instances ... but, it appears to me, willingly, and to great benefit. Personally, and no offence to you intended, I don't find living off the proceeds of gambling any different than living off the proceeds of prostitution ... except it's legal (if you're an indian). pete it's a shame that common sense isn't http://www.dahlhausminiatures.com Post Extras: