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Hondo
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Burn Piles
09/13/02 02:02 PM
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Some still, damp day this fall we're going to have to burn. Our pile consists mostly of brush, uprooted cactus and scrap lumber. Now we've never done this and are nervous about it, not to mention totally ignorant of proper procedures. Can ya'll give us any pointers?
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mikim
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Re: Burn Piles
[re: Hondo]
09/13/02 02:55 PM
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Mine get high - I wait til a rainy day in the winter - pour a little diesel on it to start it - then constantly circle the pile with the tractor and/or shovel and monitor it all the way down. They are usually at least a year old so it burns quick. They are usually made up of mostly cedar too - and trash elm. Burning in the rain takes care of any hot ash that wants to float off.
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robertn
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Re: Burn Piles
[re: Hondo]
09/13/02 02:58 PM
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Start with small piles. 4'x4'x4' is the max recommended size in our fire district.
Clear around the pile, down to dirt. It's hard for a fire to escape if there are no flammables right next to it
Keep it in the open; don't put it under or near trees.
Don't use gas to ignite it! Don't even think about it! Start it with paper, or maybe use a little charcoal lighter fluid. Just do't use gasoline, or "white" campstove type fuel; it is too volatile, and will flash on you.
Keep a shovel and rake right there in case you need to mop up around the burn pile.
If you have it, have a water supply right there with you too.
Get a permit from your local Fire Dept. Manty area's require permits to burn. And, like at our station, they have a handy flier that details all this.
Call your burn information number to see if it is a permissive burn day. They may not allow you to burn because of air quality issues, or hazardous fire issues.
Be careful burning construction trash, lumber, ect. In a lot of area's, you can only burn yard debris and rubbish; ie tree trimmings, brush, pine needles ect.
Have a phone nearby, just in case your burn pile escapes. You are liable for all damages if you burn pile escapes and damges a neighbors property.
Above all else, be careful!
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Mosey
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Re: Burn Piles
[re: Hondo]
09/13/02 03:22 PM
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Some good advice so far. Let me emphasize the "don't use gasoline to start it" part. Gasoline doesn't burn, it explodes! When I was a kid growing up on the farm, I used gasoline - once. I learned my lesson quick!
Don't burn on a windy day!
I use either kerosene or diesel fuel if the brush is still kind of green. It also helps to add some engine oil (I save my old oil when I change my oil in the vehicles and tractor for just this purpose). If it's dry though, you won't need anything but some newspaper.
I don't bother with permits, not sure if they're needed. That's up to you.
I fill my pump sprayers (I have one for herbicides and one for pesticides) with water and keep them handy. I also have a couple pails of water handy. Sometimes I water the area down around it before lighting it.
In my opinion, the biggest danger is sparks and leaves or other stuff that gets in the air. Don't put cardboard boxes and books on top, that stuff will float off while under fire. Did I say "don't burn on a windy day!"
Warning: Once a fair sized brush pile (6'x6'x6')gets going, you won't be able to get within 15' of it for a while. So, make sure the area around it is cleared before you light it.
I try to get a fairly early start so I won't be up all night tending it. Those embers can last all night OK once they're raked up into a pile with a good 3' or so band of bare ground around them.
Don't for get the hot dogs and marshmallows!
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Harv
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Re: Burn Piles
[re: robertn]
09/13/02 05:20 PM
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Hey, good first post, Robert! 
Glad you showed up over here 'cuz I will probably do my own burn for the first time as soon as things moisten up a little. I'm guessing your advice applys pretty close, since you're only a couple of hills away from my property.
We've been interviewing caretakers for the property lately, and one fella saw my brush pile and said he could burn it right where it is -- next to and overgrown by large oaks and pines.  He flunked the interview. 
I plan on tractorin' a good-sized pit in a nearby clearing and leave the spoils piled up around the edge for extra containment. Thanks for mentioning the 4'x4'x4' dimension. I'll double check for our area, but that sounds like a good starting point. I'd rather take it slow than burn down the whole neighborhood. And maybe yours. 
Any estimates on how many marshmallows/weenies per cubic yard of brush? 
Good thread, Bob. 
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robertn
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Re: Burn Piles
[re: Harv]
09/13/02 05:42 PM
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Harv, since you are so close, I know you will need a permit. You will also need to find out the "burn number" in your area.
Also, I would forgo the marshmallows and weenies. From what you have siad in the past, you are not sure what the content of some of your brush piles are. I do not believe you nor the kids would enjoy raosting edibles over burning poison oak
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robertn
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Re: Burn Piles
[re: Mosey]
09/13/02 05:48 PM
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Mosey,
the permit probably is not a big deal till I show up on the Engine and ask about it  Honestly though, you would be sited and fined in our district, if we had to respond to your burn pile. Other districts and states vary thier regs.
I was on a 1000 acre fire a week ago. Ashes were falling over 5 miles away.
In our district, you can not put books or boxes on the burn pile. It is for yard trimmings only. Again, it varies by district, state, ect.
You're right, those ashes and embers will stay hot for a LONG time.
Out here, we stay away from roasting weenies, since you might have poison oak in the pile, even if inadvertantly. That would make a really yucky marshmallow
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Harv
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Re: Burn Piles
[re: robertn]
09/13/02 05:49 PM
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I do not believe you nor the kids would enjoy raosting edibles over burning poison oak
Yikes!
I completely forgot about the ol' poison oak! Although it was never intentional, it's a pretty safe bet that there is at least some of that nasty stuff in there.
Guess I need a second pit to burn some charcoal briquettes in.
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MikePA
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Re: Burn Piles
[re: Hondo]
09/13/02 05:58 PM
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I've never used a burn pile, but my neighbor across the street did. On a breezy day. He caught his next door neighbor's (they live diagonally from us) lawn on fire. They had to call in the local volunteer fire department. Fortunately, the fire didn't get out of hand, and the neighbor really didn't care all that much about their lawn.
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egon
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Re: Burn Piles
[re: MikePA]
09/13/02 06:10 PM
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Used oil is considered a hazardous substance as it contains heavy metals. Don't think I'd toast any marshmallows over it.
Another way is to burn the material on a nightly basis in an approved device and spend time gossiping with the neighbours while doing it.
Egon
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BillG49
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Start with small piles. 4'x4'x4' is the max recommended size in our fire district.
I should have asked for advice before we torched some of our burn piles! The attachment shows me high-tailing it away from the blaze, the scorched earth result, and how nature is healing the scars.
We thought we were ok: no wind, not too dry, etc. BUT, no water available, too large a burn pile (about 20'x20'x10') and drifting firebrands caused us a lot of anxiety, 1st degree burns and some serious running around time. And this is only one (albeit the largest) of the 6 piles we started burning that morning.
I think our next door neighbor was somewhat concerned about our sanity (and his trees). The next time we had a good rain, he burned the rest of our brush for us!
I think God must look out for fools and children, as we feel like we dodged a bullet that day.
 Eagle Ridge
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dobber30052
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Re: Burn Piles
[re: Hondo]
09/13/02 09:01 PM
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Don't use gas to start it??? Heck, the last time we lit off one here, my wife decided to start it about 5:30 am, sorry, but that's too early for me. Anyway, she tossed in a cup or two of "bug juice" as we called it in camp many years ago. Seems like she forgot the matches, back up to the house. (this pile was about 12' in diameter & 8' tall..) she gets back, throws in a match, and my neighbor, just settling down on the porch with the 1st cup of joe swears the pile lifted a foot off the ground!
Needless to say, she did get me up (no the blast didn't do it) to nurse it from there.
On another note, we have adopted "Guy Fawkes Night" as our "Official" bonfire time. Last year we burned an Osama!
Dob
Unless noted above, I have NO financial or other interest in any product or company mentioned.
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Gatorboy
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I've got 2 huge piles of brush, logs, etc. that are about 30x30x10. One pile is 1+ years old and the other is from this summer. I was going to just light the first one this fall/winter, but after reading the advice in here, I am going to create a new smaller pile on my newly graded area that I will be building my pole barn next spring. This area is 70x50, and will serve as a great firebreak.
I will do as you do Terry, and just keep adding to the smaller pile as the fire burns -- sounds like a very sensible way to keep things under control.
I will be getting a burning permit (had one last year but never burned) and calling the local fire dept. before starting the fire.
:: D A V E
:: g a t o r b o y
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Phred
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Re: Burn Piles
[re: Hondo]
09/13/02 09:53 PM
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Guys,
I use a burn barrel. Just an old metal 55 gal drum that I picked up for ~ $5. Works great since it contains all the fire and prevents spread. Only good for very small fires but you can burn one fairly often since its easy and safe.
However, I must confess that I use gas to start it. I know I am about to get a lecture..... You need to be very carefull with this. The system I have is to tie a paper towel around a 10' section of metal furring channel. A few drops of gas on the top layer of material in the burn barrel and light it from 10' feet away with the metal channel and you have a real efficient system.
The key statement is "a few drops"!
Fred
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egon
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Re: Burn Piles
[re: Phred]
09/13/02 10:06 PM
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Forgot to mention that the wood ashes contain phosphate which is good fertilizer.
Egon
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Hayseed
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Re: Burn Piles
[re: Phred]
09/13/02 11:26 PM
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Of course it goes without saying that a burn barrel can also cause problems if not done properly.
A few years ago my father-in-law had a fire going in his burn barrel at his home in rural Louisiana. Someone had put some sticks in the barrel and one of them burned in two and fell out on the ground. It was late in the year and the grass was dry and the fire spread from the area near the barrel to his two acre pasture in the back, which had not been mowed lately and was full of dead grass and weeds. To make a long story short the volunteer fire department was called but by the time they arrived half the field had caught fire and swept to the area where he stored a couple of drums of diesel fuel. The drums caught fire and my mother-in-law described what happened next as comparing the fire to an oil well fire with flames shooting up in the air and billowing clouds of smoke enveloping the entire area. A neighboring rice field caught fire as well. The VFD was able to put the fire out before any structures were damaged or destroyed but my father-in-law suffered lung damage from smoke inhalation. His lungs were already in bad shape from years of inhaling welding smoke and decades of tobacco use. The smoke inhalation worsened the already existing lung damage and he died a couple of years later when his lungs just finally gave out. He would probably have died of lung disease anyway but one careless moment allowed a fire to get out of hand and possibly accelerat his demise.
I agree with Phred that a burn barrel is a good way to burn small amounts of limbs and such but I just want to point out that because you burn in a barrel does not mean that you should be any less cautious than if you are burning a pile of brush.
Chris
Edited by Hayseed (09/13/02 11:28 PM)
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Boondox
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Re: Burn Piles
[re: Hondo]
09/14/02 06:26 PM
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Wow, a very timely post! I just torched one today!
My burn piles are generally the semi-dried crowns of trees dropped by the wind or myself for firewood, branches trimmed off or saplings thinned out. I generally throw a few decent hunks of firewood on top to generate some serious embers (they come in handy later in the burn). I usually let the pile sit and dry for several weeks. When rain is forecast, I cover the whole thing with an old tarp. When the rain is past, I uncover the pile, splash kerosene around the base, and light it. No need to splash kero on top, as the heat rises.
One trick I use to get the thing good and hot if it has trouble getting going is to use my leaf blower as a very efficient bellows. Works like a charm!
Very little danger of the fire spreading if I light it after a rain, but just in case my pile is right down from the pond, so I can run a siphon if need be. As the center of the pile is reduced to ash, I circle with either a shovel or the Kubota (depending on the size of the pile) to push the unburned edges onto the bed of embers in the middle. Oh, and I always wear long sleeves and a ballcap. When the heat is too intense I look down and the brim protects my face. And gloves are a must.
Today's burn pile started as the size of a full sized van, and ended with fine ash that would not quite fill a 30 gallon garbage can. I spread the ash under the apple trees while it's still hot; kills the fungus that leads to apple scab. Again, hose is handy for flare ups.
Pete
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Harv
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Re: Burn Piles
[re: Boondox]
09/14/02 09:03 PM
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Dang, Pete! You gonna be near California any time soon?
I might just print out your description of that burn. Nothing like step-by-step instructions from someone who just did it.
Sounds like there's an advantage to living right there where you burn. Timing the weather might be a little more problematic for us weekend (or less) warriors. Think I'll go ahead and set up the initial pile and cover it as you describe. Don't know exactly when the first rains will come, but it can't hurt to be ready.
This is one of those tasks I hate to turn over to our yet-to-be hired caretaker. There's just too much at stake.
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MossRoad
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Re: Burn Piles
[re: Hondo]
09/15/02 10:28 AM
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This is not meant to stir up the embers, so-to-speak, but why do you folks burn? I have a few brush piles that just sit there. I add to them every so often and they just keep rotting down. If I happend to be driving by I'll mash them down with the FEL just to teach them a lesson! Great fun. Every once in a while I'll move them over and harvest the good soil that has built up under them. They also provide good habitat for wildlife, if you like skunks
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Harv
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why do you folks burn?
I guess brush piles come in different sizes. As long as I was just picking up fallen debris, my pile was controllable in the manner you describe. But now that I've gotten serious about clearing fire trails and removing the growth that's gotten too close to the house, my brush pile is so big that it is more of a fire hazard than the areas I was clearing.
Probably also depends on what kinda stuff you're putting on the pile. If I'm just clearing brush, the pile stays reasonable. Now that I'm cuttin' down trees here and there, it's just piling up too fast. One small oak tree makes for a powerful heap o' limbs and leaves, not counting the good firewood that comes with it.
Personally, I'd rather run it all through a chipper, but so far it doesn't look like I'll be able to arrange that due to finances and schedules 'n' stuff.
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MikePA
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Re: Burn Piles
[re: Harv]
09/15/02 10:43 AM
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Would it be possible, and prudent, to run a rotary cutter over the pile or are the limbs and stuff too big?
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Harv
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Would it be possible, and prudent, to run a rotary cutter over the pile
Funny you should ask. I had the same idea and even mentioned it over on TBN recently. I think it was RobertN who said he had tried it himself, and although it shreds the brush, it throws it all over the place and just generally makes a mess.
Had to find out for myself, though, didn't I? To control the mess, I decided to dig a shallow trough barely wider than the rotary cutter and do all my shredding in the trough.
I had planned on running a pictoral report over on TBN, but never got around to it. Since this is more about brush piles than it is about tractors, and since you came right out and asked the question, Mike, I'll do it here.
The attached pictures show the preparation of the trough itself.
(Continued on next message)
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Harv
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The pictures attached here are kind of a before-and-after of several runs with the rotary cutter.
I found that I could only do a little bit at a time 'cuz it gets hard to get the cutter on top of the pile, plus the amount of work the cutter is doing at one time gets to be considerable (not to mention noisy ) I wore my chainsaw helmet with ear protection the whole time.
The bottom picture shows what was left after running over about a half dozen small piles as shown in the top picture. Have to admit I was amazed at how little was left each time. Just shows to go ya that a lot of our brush is mostly air.
Note -- not clearly shown in that last picture is the larger stuff I retrieved from the trough when the cutter was done. It generally wound up laying too flat in the dirt for the cutter to get ahold of it, and was typically 2 inches or more in diameter. Not bad for small firewood, actually.
My final opinion? It's a lot o' work (hand-filling the trough, jumping on and off the tractor, etc.), hard on the ol' rotary cutter, and unfortunately kinda slow going. After an entire afternoon of this process, I had made a noticeable dent in the original brush pile, but that was about all. Would probably take me a week to finish it (or in my case, a couple of months of visits).
Since this episode, I have cleared more trees and limbs and the pile is considerably bigger than when I took these pictures. Unless I can get access to a man-sized chipper soon, my next attempt will be a burn. 
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MikePA
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Re: Burn Piles
[re: Harv]
09/15/02 12:18 PM
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Interesting pictures. I was thinking you could just back up into the pile, i.e., don't use the trench and the steps needed to move the brush to it. But you're right, it's a slow and very noisy process and probably kind of rough on the cutter.
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MossRoad
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Re: Burn Piles
[re: Harv]
09/15/02 01:07 PM
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Thanks for the pictorial reply!
We rarely have any trees left over as my in-laws burn wood for heat. They take all burnable wood and I am left with only the branches and stuff under 2 inches or so. Also, we don't have much of a fire hazard here, although we are in a drought right now. I'm more worried about my forest burning down if I would attempt to burn. When I was a kid my father set the yard on fire while burning leaves. The fire department came at the last minute and probably saved the house. My mother complained because the fire pull box(remember those) was all the way at the end of the block. The next week the fire chief was there as a crew installed a pull box on a telephone pole at the end of our driveway. I'm told the fire chief made some comment about idiots and leaf fires as he drove away. My mother was mortified in front of the neighbors
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