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OkieG
Member

Reged: 09/14/02
Posts: 42
What is "seasoned" firewood?
      11/02/02 07:04 AM

Infrequent use of our fireplace is about to change!!...thanks to a wonderful invention called a "log-splitter". What a great tool!!

In my home state of Washington, large trees grow tall with straight grain and a willingness to yield to the ax when being split.

Here in Oklahoma, trees are small (relatively), knotty, and laugh at a swinging ax. Ahhhh, but a log-splitter changes all that.

Anyway, this post is not about log-splitters, but about how and how long "should" firewood be seasoned before meeting it's destiny? This past Spring I was finally able to accumulate a couple cords of SPLIT firewood and it has been stacked outside all summer. The wood is not completely dry by any means as it is too heavy to be really dry, but....it burns just great!

Dry wood burns hotter, but also burns faster. I think the energy released as a log burns is the same whether dry, or not so dry. it's just that the one burns faster (and hotter) than the other. My harvest from Spring seems to burn plenty hot, and if it burns a bit longer in the FP, that is a plus in my book.

How do you choose how long to season your firewood? What difference does it make? Your input is appreciated.

OkieG



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Hakim
Staff

Reged: 09/10/02
Posts: 133
Loc: Carlsbad, CA
Re: What is "seasoned" firewood? new [re: OkieG]
      11/02/02 09:48 AM

Hi OkieG,

We heated our home for six years exclusively with wood we cut and split from our own woodlot. It required about 16-18 face cords per year. We were in a cold part of Upstate New York.

We always just referred to it as "dry wood" when it is "ready to burn." As you note, the drier the wood is, the hotter it will burn. The lighter woods, like pine, go up quick and don't put out as much heat as the really heavy wood like oak. Some of them also smell sweetly when they burn, like apple.

You can probably get a log to burn in a stove even a few minutes after it is cut -- if you use enough paper to ignite it. But it will burn very poorly, put off little heat, and leave a lot of residue and unburned chunks in the woodbox of the stove. More importantly, "green" (or wet) wood will leave a LOT more creosote in the chimney---which is important because creosote buildup is a real fire hazard.

In fact, we lit our chimney up about two months after we first moved in, because we stupidly bought some "green wood" and burned it for only a couple of months before clogging the chimney and setting it on fire. The firemen took me up on the roof and showed me the inside of the chimney, lined with really thick creosote. Ever since, I have been careful to burn only "dry wood."

How long it takes to become dry, or dry enough to burn, is of course subject to various factors, such as type of wood, width and length of the wood, season when cut, etc. Our rule of thumb was that we wanted to get it cut, split and stacked not later than June 1, to be sure of having good burning wood by around October 1. That was the minimum time. Ideally, we liked it to sit for a whole year. If it sits more than a year, it could start to rot, or some types of wood will get so dried out that a whole cord will go up in about fifteen minutes. You can just sit there shovelling in wood.

The problem with wet wood usually arises when you have to buy wood in the middle of winter from local sources. They will always tell it is has been "down quite a while," even if they cut it today. Try to avoid having to buy any wood in the middle of winter. If you do buty wood, find your source and purchase in say June. You'll get the best wood.

Another point is concerning wood stoves versus fireplaces. Generally speaking, a fireplace will not produce a good amount of interior building heat, since most of the heat just rises up the chimney. Get a good woodstove. It will repay you over time. Check the papers and auctions, because you can usually pick up a great deal.

One last tip -- it usually is NOT a good idea to burn large amounts of paper waste in a wood stove (like all the Christmas wrapping paper!). If there is any creosote buildup, this kind of ultrahot paper burn off often will set it on fire. Safety first!

Enjoy the winter!

Hope this helps.

Hakim Chishti

P.S. We are in Arizona, right now 72 degrees. Our wood needs this year will be -0- cords.

Hakim Chishti
Staff/Moderator

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Argee
Silver Member

Reged: 09/12/02
Posts: 216
Loc: Northern Michigan
Re: What is "seasoned" firewood? new [re: OkieG]
      11/02/02 03:27 PM

What is "seasoned " firewood?

Take the firewood and sprinkle with a dash of pepper, a dash of oregano, teaspoon of salt and a...................

Sorry, I couldn't resist. Normally what you cut and stack in your shed this year is next years fire wood.

Argee

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EJB
Silver Member

Reged: 09/15/02
Posts: 243
Loc: Western, Massachusetts
Re: What is "seasoned" firewood? new [re: OkieG]
      11/02/02 04:14 PM

For me, seasoned firewood is this:

I usually down trees in the spring/summer, cut them up and split and stack them by thanksgiving and then wait an entire year before I use it.

I usually have more wood than I can use, so I am usually finishing up the previous years wood the following year, but that means on average my wood is been down for 18-24 months before I burn it. Maple and Cherry mostly.

My wood tends to get mushrooms growing on it if I let it sit much more than 36 months so I try to avoid that

I think if the wood cut be cut/split and stack in a nice south facing area for an entire spring summer season, the would wood probably be good to go by fall. Not sure it actually does much dryoing out during the sub-zero temps anyway

My experience is that if it is cut and split and stacked for airflow, it will "season" quicker.

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OkieG
Member

Reged: 09/14/02
Posts: 42
Re: What is "seasoned" firewood? new [re: Hakim]
      11/02/02 05:21 PM

Hakim,

I am jealous...0 cords required this year. I like burning firewood, but would like even more to be in a climate where I didn't have to!

I don't understand the creosote issue too well. I can see how a smoldering fire (ie not burning hot) could allow some of the uncombusted materials in the smoke to collect on the chimney walls. But that could happen whether the wood is wet or dry, couldn't it?

I can also see how very wet wood would not burn hot and would be much more likely for chimney build-up.

If moisture content is the only difference between firewood split a week ago and wood split a year ago, it must be the incomplete combustion (from a cool fire) and a cool chimney (also from a cool fire) that would allow build-up to occur.

Is there some factor (other than water) present in recently split wood that's not in wood seasoned longer??

Our "fireplace" is really a doublewalled steel insert with front firebox doors that seal tightly when closed. There is also some sort of catalyst grid in the flue of the unit (I'm not sure how well that works). A fan pulls outside air in between the double walls, then into the room. The wood cut last Spring burns quite hot, but does seem to last a bit longer in the fire than very dry wood. I don't know if that equals creosote build-up or not.

If a hot fire, even with not completely dry wood, is the main thing to keep creosote build-up away, then our chimney is probably OK.

Thanks for the input.

OkieG

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Hakim
Staff

Reged: 09/10/02
Posts: 133
Loc: Carlsbad, CA
Re: What is "seasoned" firewood? new [re: OkieG]
      11/02/02 05:45 PM

Okie,

Is there some factor (other than water) present in recently split wood that's not in wood seasoned longer??

I don't think it is a "factor" so much as when it is green it is truly wet, and cannot become as fully ignited. The slower burn throws off a LOT more smoke, which is what converts into the creosote as it cools on the way up the chimney.

You probably should go and take a look at the chimney every few months. There may be a cut out box in the basement, or you can go up on the roof and peer down with a flashlight. A slight scaling of creosote is normal, and will burn away -- as the initial fire is very hot, enough to dissolve small amounts of creosote.

But the build up can be severe, even to the point of practically closing off the chimney. I have seen it so bad that smoke backs up down the chimney.

There is an addititve you can toss into the fire every so often (check a Home Depot or equivalent of Country Tractor where you are).

I finally bought a chimney brush, and used it twice a year just to keep my chimney as clean as possible. You have to get the correct size and shape for your specific chimney (one size does not fit all).

Every winter in northern NY a few houses burned down from chimney fires. A number of them arise form creosote build up. It is not an imaginary thing, believe me.

It sounds like your stove and installation is okay, but you still need to inspect, clean and maintain the chimney. We had a"metalbestos" chimney in our second house, and never had a creosote problem.

All the best,

Hakim Chishti
Staff/Moderator

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beenthere
Gold Member

Reged: 09/30/02
Posts: 343
Loc: midwest
Re: What is "seasoned" firewood? new [re: OkieG]
      11/02/02 09:28 PM

""Is there some factor (other than water) present in recently split wood that's not in wood seasoned longer??""

The only factor, other than water, is the species of wood. Softwoods such as pine, fir, hemlock, spruce, differ from hardwoods such as oak, hickory, elm, maple, birch, etc. in their density, cell size and distribution, and in their ability to dry out.

Some woods, such as hickory, burn well even when they are not dry. But regardless, if there is moisture in the wood (and there always will be some), that moisture has to be converted to gas (steam) with heat which robs energy from the wood when it burns. So the more moisture, the less heat is available to heat the air. Petty straight forward.

When wood is burning, and boiling off the water in the wood, it is not as hot and the gases are cooler, which will condense out in the smoke stack quicker and easier. This condensing is what forms the creosote. Some woods produce more creosote than others, because of the chemical makeup of the wood.

In many years that I have burned wood, I find that it does not have the heat value I want until after being split, and stacked under cover for a minimum of 2 1/2 to 3 years. It doesn't rot if under cover, it continues to lose moisture, and because it is red oak or white oak, it does not burn up quickly in the wood stove. Two to three pieces will burn for 8 - 10 hours, and at that time, have enough hot coals to ignite two more pieces, with out lighting a match. That does not happen with wood that is not dry.

Granted, dry or seasoned means something else to different minds, as the response indicate here. I don't mean to imply that they are wrong, as that is likely the way they want their wood to be when they burn it. And that is fine.

Moisture is found in wood in three forms. The moisture called "free water" is found above what is termed "fiber saturation point" which for most woods is about 30% moisture content (oven dry basis). The water above 30% is "free water" found in the cells (voids) of the wood. If one was strong enough, you could wring that water out like wringing out a wet sock. Under 30%, the water is bound up in the cell wall structure and when removed (with energy) it causes the cell walls to shrink. One will notice this shrinking by the cracks that form in the ends of the firewood. This moisture comes out of the cell walls quickest from the ends of the wood pieces. It takes a long time to get the center cells within the pieces to give up the water bound up in the cell walls.
The third form of water in wood is at moisture content under 5%, and is chemically bound up and cannot be removed. So the driest you can get wood is about 5%. The driest you can get wood by just air drying is about 12%. That will take about three years in the northern US, quicker in the South (like Oklahoma). Wood doesn't dry much in the cold air during winter. The relative humidity is too high. In fact, dry wood if left outside in the winter will probably pick up moisture. Good to move as much dry wood indoors (yes, often impractical) in the fall before cold sets in for the winter.

One can determine the moisture content of wood by weighing a small piece (nearest gram if possible) then drying it in an oven (250 F) until it stops losing weight, then dividing the difference between the two weights (green - dry) by the dry weight (times this by 100 to get moisture content). Also, the wood is air dry if and when it stops losing weight. Because the ends of the firewood pieces are dryer than the center of the stick, the center will be the best place to cut a test sample (if one is serious about knowing).


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OkieG
Member

Reged: 09/14/02
Posts: 42
Re: What is "seasoned" firewood? new [re: beenthere]
      11/02/02 10:46 PM

beenthere,

Thanks for the explantion. My education is a long road with no end in sight. Your post helps.

Summers here are pretty warm, but even here a couple of years drying might be best. This year I have no choice, unless I just don't burn.

This could develop into a new project. I need to pour some narrow, long cement strips to keep firewood stacks off the ground and devise a way to cover the wood. A woodshed would be good. Hmmm. Maybe by Spring a plan will surface.

OkieG

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EJB
Silver Member

Reged: 09/15/02
Posts: 243
Loc: Western, Massachusetts
Re: What is "seasoned" firewood? new [re: Hakim]
      11/03/02 06:13 AM

>>Every winter in northern NY a few houses burned down from chimney fires. A number of them arise form creosote build up. It is not an imaginary thing, believe me.

Back when I was a volunteer firefighter, about 7 of 10 calls (at least ) we received during the winter were for chimney fires...they range from real minor ones where we didn't have to do much, to those where you could see the chimney literally burning thru all the mortar between all the bricks from the outside of the house..pretty scarey to see.

A more experienced firefighter told me a story, and I am not positive it was a real story that he knew of first hand, or just one that kereps getting repeated so many times everthing thinks it actually happneded in there town, anyway, the way he told it, an older guy in town would NEVER clean his chimney, he just waited until it caught on fire, and he'd call the fire dept to help control it/clean it out while it was burning beleive it not that is pretty much how we put them out; you'd actually get up ion the roof, in the middle of the night (usually), in a snow storm (usually), and one guy would drop the heavy chain in and loosen up all the built up creosote while I guy at the bottom would shovel the burning stuff into a bucket and shiuttle it outside.

Anyway, after cleaning this guys chimney every year for a few years, the fire chief tells him that he NEEDS to start having it cleaned every year, because it is too risky to keep sending guys up onto a snowyroof at night to do it for him while it is burning.

Anyway, they guy refuses to do it and next year, same thing.

This time, the guys didn't go up onto the roof with the chains...they brought the firhouse instead

As the story goes, that was the last time they had to go to thhis guys house and put out any chimney fires...

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Rockyroad
New Member

Reged: 10/04/02
Posts: 15
Re: What is "seasoned" firewood? new [re: OkieG]
      11/04/02 09:36 AM

Oh, yeah! Chimney fires are real threats and your friendly local firemen who come to put it out with a fire hose can usually destroy your chimney. That cold water hitting the hot flue liners can crack and destroy them. The best medicine for a chimney fire is never to have one to begin with. Buy a brush and the rods and clean as needed.

I have 4 flues in my chimney and four stoves connected to them. I have an old Glenwood K range in the basement, a Jotul coal stove in the kitchen, a big Coalbrookdale stove in the living room, and a small Jotul box stove on the second floor. Rarely do I burn all of them at the same time. It has to be a sub-zero night, which happens (but not that often) in Rhode Island.

Outside chimneys tend to build up more creosote than center chimneys because the center chimneys stay warmer and do not condense creosote because of cooling. My coalstove is always going, which tends to keep all of the flues nice and warm. Consequently, when I burn wood in my other stoves I have virtually no creosote. I burn the woodstoves hot when I first light them in order to burn any creosote out of the pipes. You can hear it crackle when it burns off. You have to be careful when doing this that you don't go overboard and catch the pipe on fire. When it starts to make a crackleing noise, a couple of taps on the pipe with the poker will disoldge the stuff on the inside of the pipe. You can actually hear it falling into the stove.

The oldtime "swamp yankees" around here who were burning wood before it became fashionable in the 70's and 80's always said that it is important WHEN the firewood was cut. Trees cut during the winter months when the sap is down will dry faster and burn better than wood cut during the growing season when it is soaking wet inside from sap.

You can usually tell when wood was cut, even after it is dry for a year of so. If you put the wood in the stove and you notice bubbles of sap oozing out the ends as it starts to burn, this usually indicates wood cut during the growing season. It will sizzle and pop sap out the ends and steam. Do not touch one of those bubbles - they will give you a terrible burn.

I buy wood in bulk here in Rhode Island by the entire logging truck load. The entire tree trunks about 18 feet long are delivered in a 8 - 10 cord load. This usually averages out to about $50 a cord for mixed oak and maple. This will generally last me about 2 years, sometimes 3 depending on the severity of the winter and the price of home heating oil, which I also use as a backup. I try to buy the wood in the middle of winter because it usually indicates it was cut during the right time of the year.

There were years during the oil embargo when I purchased no home heating oil at all and relied entirely on coal and wood. That is a rough way to live, and it definitely gave me an appreciation of the way our ancestors lived only a generation or two ago. Try cooking a meal on one of those old fashioned wood ranges and you will gain a new appreciation for that gas or electric stove in your kitchen!



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