|
mleininger
|
|
Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 08/17/04
|
|
Posts: 30
|
|
Loc: Chicago suburban
|
|
Radon mitigation do it yourself
04/25/07 02:14 PM
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
I'm going to install a radon mitigation system in my basement. Does anyone have suggestions on a high quality fan? There are many brands advertised, and other than price I have no way of determining which will provide the longest service. iI plan to install it in the attic so it won't be exposed to weather. Thanks for any suggestions.
Post Extras:
|
|
rlk
|
|
Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/12/02
|
|
Posts: 37
|
|
Loc: Apex, North Carolina
|
|
Re: Radon mitigation do it yourself
[re: mleininger]
04/25/07 06:55 PM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
mleininger, I can't answer your question about a fan (I believe the correct terminology is a vacuum pump), but can share a story with you.
I have a friend who tried to do radon mitigation himself rather than use a company who specializes in radon mitigation. His efforts were very expensive and led to very little radon mitigation. He ended up having to hire a radon mitigation contractor. Once the contractor was finished, the home was well below the EPA guidelines.
My friend feels the efforts and dollars he spent doing it himself were wasted.
Unless you really know what you are doing, I would not gamble my family's health on doing it myself. If I did it myself, I would test every quarter for a couple of years to be sure everything was working as planned.
Bob
Post Extras:
|
|
egon
|
|
Veteran Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/12/02
|
|
Posts: 3011
|
|
Loc: Nova Scotia,Canada
|
|
Re: Radon mitigation do it yourself
[re: mleininger]
04/25/07 07:05 PM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
Radon?? best get some qualified advice! 
Egon
Post Extras:
|
|
mleininger
|
|
Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 08/17/04
|
|
Posts: 30
|
|
Loc: Chicago suburban
|
|
Re: Radon mitigation do it yourself
[re: rlk]
04/26/07 09:56 AM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
I have a friend who is a radiation physicist and does this for a living on commercial and industrial projects. She told me what to do but is not familiar with the brands of small equipment used in houses. I was hoping someone who has experience with the home market would suggest a good reliable brand.
Post Extras:
|
|
Pat
|
|
Veteran Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/15/02
|
|
Posts: 4889
|
|
Loc: SouthCentral Oklahoma
|
|
Re: Radon mitigation do it yourself
[re: mleininger]
04/26/07 10:15 AM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
I assume you already have the basement and are not going to build it?
My radon mitigation was home brew. My basement slab sits atop 16 inches of washed septic gravel, two inches of rigid 4x8 foam insulation, and a vapor barrier (StegoWrap) with seams sealed with special tape just for that purpose. I put a perforated pipe buried in the gravel bed and ran that out the roof of the house via a 2 inch PVC pipe. There is no pressure under the slab since it is vented to atmosphere. If there is any radon it will not penetrate the plastic barrier and will vent out the roof.
At the time I did this I thought it was as cheap to install the vent as it was to test adequately for radon so I installed the vent and didn't test for radon. I wanted the plastic barrier anyway to keep any moisture out of the floor slab so the only expense was a little pipe and glue. I was quite thorough with the installation of the vapor barrier and with sealing its overlapped seams. My basement floor is about 5 ft under the level of the surrounding ground water and yet it stays quite dry. I have tested it by taping impermeable plastic over a square yard for a week on the walls and in various places on the floor. After a week there wasn't even any discoloration of the concrete much less visible condensation. I do have French drains at the top of the foundation inside and out draining to daylight. These would pass radon as well, if there is any.
Showers are often one of the worst radon sources in the home, if local water has radon. A good exhaust fan is a good idea.
Pat 
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
Post Extras:
|
|
mleininger
|
|
Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 08/17/04
|
|
Posts: 30
|
|
Loc: Chicago suburban
|
|
Re: Radon mitigation do it yourself
[re: Pat]
04/26/07 06:06 PM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
Good point, I forgot to mention my house is already built. The house is in an area of very porous rock and gravel as deep as you can dig, there are many quarries in the area. So our sump pump has never come on in the 30 years since it was built. In fact we discharge our water softener, dehumidifier and air conditioner into the sump and it just dissipates into the tile without the sump ever coming on. We also have no moisture of any kind. That was the basis for my friend believing that depressurization would be very effective. Thanks for your info, wish I were building a new house, I'd do many things different.
Post Extras:
|
|
Pat
|
|
Veteran Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/15/02
|
|
Posts: 4889
|
|
Loc: SouthCentral Oklahoma
|
|
Re: Radon mitigation do it yourself
[re: mleininger]
04/26/07 10:03 PM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
Excuse my ignorance, it can be cured with education, training, and or experience. What is depressurization? Do you suck a vacuum on the space below the basement slab and discharge the removed air in a safe direction away from paths leading back inside the house? I thoiught that might work to prevent infiltration of any subterranean gasses or vapors through any microscopic cracks or the general porosity of the slab.
Otherwise I am clueless.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
Post Extras:
|
|
QRTRHRS
|
|
Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 11/26/05
|
|
Posts: 89
|
|
Loc: Casey County, KY
|
|
Re: Radon mitigation do it yourself
[re: mleininger]
12/29/07 10:31 PM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
Re: radon fan - Fantech. My present home is the second that I had with radon. Both have used the Fantech fans, the current one being mounted on the outside of the house and running steady for over nine years now. I also have one for venting my bathrooms and one with a barometric sensor on my dryer line. I guess that you could say that I am a Fantech "fan", ha!
My last house had the system when I bought it. The house was a bilevel but sat at ground level. The four inch PVC pipe went into the concret floor in the garage, perhaps just into the gravel bed for the concrete. I have no idea if there were pipes within the gravel.
I forget the proper name for the mercury guage that shows vacuum but the guage was mounted on the pipe at eye level. The pipe ran through a second floor closet then into the attic where the fan was mounted and vented through the roof.
Previous to buying, I had the radon tested in the ranch house which I have now and it was high.
When the basement slab was poured, the contractor placed a 2x4 around the perimeter then removed it after the concrete had hardened I suppose. They may have done that expecting water due to springs in the area but the basement is dry.
When the radon contractor mitigated it, he pop riveted plastic angle over the 2" gap around the basement walls except for both far ends of the foundation where he placed a collector and a vertical pipe. Connected via a horizontal pipe running along the steel support beam, the pipe is then routed to the outside where the fan is then a stack runs up the wall.
The pipe comes out of the wall into a "Tee", on the bottom of which is a screen to allow moisture to drain.
Admittedly, it is kind of ugly but this end of the house has the AC condenser and the electric meter. Plus, this end is not usually seen by guests, etc.
It saved a lot of other problems by placing the fan/stack on the end wall and there is one less hole through the roof.
By the way, none of the locals could believe that I had radon as we are north of the usual area where it is common in eastern PA. Then, I found out that some of the highest readings to be found anywhere are on top of a nearby "mountain" and can be recorded coming right out of the ground. The Appalacian Trail happens to run right through it!
Do a search on Fantech and also on Radon Systems. I just did a real quick look at the latter and it appears that there is plenty of good free info.
Post Extras:
|
|
Pat
|
|
Veteran Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/15/02
|
|
Posts: 4889
|
|
Loc: SouthCentral Oklahoma
|
|
Re: Radon mitigation do it yourself
[re: QRTRHRS]
01/03/08 03:48 PM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
It is a lot easier to install radon mitigation when building than to retrofit it. The 16 inches of gravel below my basement floor is laced with perforated pipe which connects to a through the roof vent. No fans involved. The under floor volume is topped with "StegoWrap" a thick hight quality plastic barrier which is sealed at all seams and penetrations with a special (expensive) tape. There can be no pressure under the slab as it is vented and there is no path for any radon to get into the living space.
A curved tube with mercury (or other liquid) to show differential pressure (or vacuum) is a "U" tube manometer. You read the difference in heights of the liquid in the tube.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
Post Extras:
|
|
CJDave
|
|
Veteran Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 10/21/02
|
|
Posts: 851
|
|
Loc: Southeast Iowa
|
|
Re: Radon mitigation do it yourself
[re: Pat]
01/04/08 06:39 AM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
 Pat, isn't that guage that is so often seen on air handlers a "Magnahelic" (or some such spelling). it's a large face guage that you can see into and is used for pressures which are actually in the "inches of water" range as most air ducts are. I should know this having seen two trillion of them on equipment as I dragged myself and my infrared camera through machinery spaces in buildings. 
CJDave
Post Extras:
|
|
CJDave
|
|
Veteran Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 10/21/02
|
|
Posts: 851
|
|
Loc: Southeast Iowa
|
|
Re: Radon mitigation do it yourself
[re: Pat]
01/04/08 06:44 AM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
Now, Pat; here is the next question: "What is an interstice? If you have an interstitial air handler, where do you go to find it? Basement? Roof? Parking garage?
CJDave
Post Extras:
|
|
Pat
|
|
Veteran Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/15/02
|
|
Posts: 4889
|
|
Loc: SouthCentral Oklahoma
|
|
Re: Radon mitigation do it yourself
[re: CJDave]
01/04/08 09:28 PM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
Dave, I never heard of "magnahelic" or anything real similar. Manometers are like liquid type barometers but open at both ends and in a U shape not purely veritical. The "U" tube with a liquid in it will show the differential air pressure between what the two different ends are attached. If you fill it with colored water and put rulers beside the vertical parts you can read the difference in inches of water. Given the vapor pressure of mercury and our more enlightened concern for contamination, U tubes filled with mercury and open to the air we breathe are not as popular as they used to be.
In recent decades, sensor chips to measure either PSIG or absolute are readily available as well as sensitive, accurate, and repeatable. They are used in electronic pressure gages, altimeters and even bank vault intrusion detectors where a small positive pressure is maintained in a vault and the gauge will detect any reduction of the pressure such as opening the door or making a hole in the wall.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
Post Extras:
|
|
Pat
|
|
Veteran Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/15/02
|
|
Posts: 4889
|
|
Loc: SouthCentral Oklahoma
|
|
Re: Radon mitigation do it yourself
[re: CJDave]
01/04/08 09:40 PM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
Dave, An interstice is a space between other things. In common usage it is the space between closely packed other things, thus the interstitial space in a lateral line comprises the space in the volume of the lateral line that is in between the pieces of gravel.
Sometimes the term is used in the plural to refer to the collective summation of the spaces between other things, i.e. interstices.
I am not familiar with the usage you query about and can only hazard a guess. I would guess that an interstitial fan is in between two other components of the overarching system as between two sub systems. I don't think the term in and of itself so far as its denotative meaning gives any reason to choose from among your choices of locations. If there is a use of interstice or interstices which in the jargon of a trade and therein has a connotative meaning which would disambiguate the location of the fan, I am blissfully unaware of it.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
Post Extras:
|
|
CJDave
|
|
Veteran Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 10/21/02
|
|
Posts: 851
|
|
Loc: Southeast Iowa
|
|
Re: Radon mitigation do it yourself
[re: Pat]
01/05/08 08:13 AM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
I have worked on a few buildings which had a floor-between-floors; an interstice; which was full of machinery. Maintenance Mechanics like them because you have ceiling access to the first floor and floor access to the second floor. The ceiling height of the interstice was less than full, just high enough to walk through easily. I have a home-made manometer that I use for setting gas regulators and HVAC blower pressures; I use that blue windshied washer fluid in it. German submarines had something called a: "Pappenburg Column" which I THINK was used for precise indication at very shallow depths. Of course it would have to be valved off at any kind of deeper settings. I've always like lots and lots of instrumentation. Since I suffer from acute anosmia, and can't tell if something is out of whack by the way it stinks, I need gauges; lots and lots of gauges.
CJDave
Post Extras:
|
|
Pat
|
|
Veteran Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/15/02
|
|
Posts: 4889
|
|
Loc: SouthCentral Oklahoma
|
|
Re: Radon mitigation do it yourself
[re: CJDave]
01/05/08 08:20 AM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
Dave said, " I need gauges; lots and lots of gauges. "
Gauges! Gauges? We don't need no stinkin' gauges!!!
I like gauges too, especially in addition to or instead of idiot lights in automotive and other applications. I think all turbo diesels should have a pyro so after a hard run you know when it is prudent to shut down and lose cooling oil flow to the turbo bearings.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
Post Extras:
|
|
egon
|
|
Veteran Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/12/02
|
|
Posts: 3011
|
|
Loc: Nova Scotia,Canada
|
|
Re: Radon mitigation do it yourself
[re: Pat]
01/05/08 11:57 AM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
Now fellows; in places where gauges are important to producing a product they are backed up by visual and audible alarms. The "Idiot Light" does get your attention faster than one of them thar gauges that you forget to look at!
Egon
Post Extras:
|
|
Pat
|
|
Veteran Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/15/02
|
|
Posts: 4889
|
|
Loc: SouthCentral Oklahoma
|
|
Re: Radon mitigation do it yourself
[re: egon]
01/06/08 09:21 AM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
Egon, I have no difficulty with idiot lights as an adjunct to a gauge but don't like them replacing gauges.
You can wait a long time for the idiot light to come on if the bulb is burned out.
I would prefer that idiot lights be built into the gauges so when they illuminate your eye is immediately drawn to the gauge. Then there needs be no words on the light, just a light.
A problem with an idiot light is that it is binary, either on or off (usually...trying to interpret a light that is lighting a little bit or flickers is a job best done by a gauge.)
With a gauge you can notice your oil pressure varying with temp, fill level, etc and be aware that it is starting to drop below normal. An idioit light can't give an advance warning. With a radiator temp gauge you can see as you are working the engine hard that the temp is getting a tad high and lighten up a bit or investigate the cause which in my tractor is weed and grass debris on the screens in front of the radiator.
An alternator light can tell you the output is really low or non existent (typically the light is a broken belt indicator) but it does not give any indication that things are deteriorating, just that they have failed. I'd rather get an early warning so I can do something about it before it is a crisis.
Likewise volt and amp meters.
I like filter minder gauges too. Although mine are mounted at the filter the cost to the manufacturer for putting a solid state pressure sensor on ALL filters and having the car's electronics poll them ad seriatum with an annunciator to let you know if any are out of limits AND the ability to manually scroll through the readings so you can see the back pressure on each filter and make an informed decision about filter replacement before it is a must do interruption.
Yes Egon, warning lights are a good thing but along with not in place of an appropriate gauge. Wouldn't you just love to have a tachometer that was just a light that came on when you exceeded the red line but otherwise had no indication of RPM?
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
Post Extras:
|
|
Bird
|
|
Veteran Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/12/02
|
|
Posts: 1678
|
|
Loc: Corinth, TX, USA
|
|
Re: Radon mitigation do it yourself
[re: Pat]
01/06/08 10:15 AM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
In reply to:
warning lights are a good thing but along with not in place of an appropriate gauge
My sentiments exactly. I don't want a car or pickup without a tachometer, plus fuel, oil pressure, and temperature gauges. Then either an ammeter or voltmeter. There's a few more I'd like to have, but almost none of the manufacturers include them as standard equipment; i.e., things like transmission, differential, and exhaust temperatures.
And a couple of things many vehicles DO have, that I do not have, but wish I did, are outside ambient temperature and a good compass. 
Post Extras:
|
|
egon
|
|
Veteran Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/12/02
|
|
Posts: 3011
|
|
Loc: Nova Scotia,Canada
|
|
Re: Radon mitigation do it yourself
[re: Pat]
01/06/08 03:20 PM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
Pat, the idiot lights come in pairs[in case one burns out] with an audible alarm. They should be set up to alarm at low and high points giving you an operating range. They will surely get your attention faster than a gauge.
Of course you can't monitor with them. That's not what they are for.
Next we could get into computer monitoring of sensing points!
Egon
Post Extras:
|
|
Pat
|
|
Veteran Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/15/02
|
|
Posts: 4889
|
|
Loc: SouthCentral Oklahoma
|
|
Re: Radon mitigation do it yourself
[re: egon]
01/06/08 04:52 PM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
Egon, I have no quibble with upper or lower limit warning lights or audible alarms. Lights and audible alarms which direct your attention to the appropriate gauge are a good thing. I believe the rest of us were talking about automotive applications and you were talking about some stationery industrial application.
There is a "barber pole" (zebra striped) section on an aircraft altimeter at the low end so it gets your attention when the needle gets there. There are stall warning noise makers, even stick shakers to get your attention. Especially in multi engine planes there are so many gauges that it is tough to read them all and keep up your scan, especially when flying by instruments so... sometimes the designers mount the gauges so that important values are when the needle is pointed at one of the cardinal directions (up, down, left, or right._Of course even in a B-52 (8 engines) a quick glance will show you if one of the gauges is different from its buddies. If one has greater fuel flow or higher EGT it stands out by being different from the rest. No, I never got to actually fly a B-52 but did get stick time in a good simulator for B-52 H. Lots of dials and things to monitor!
Lets see now... this button launches the GAM-77 cruise missile with atomic warhead and this one that looks a lot like it buzzes for coffee...
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
Edited by Pat (01/06/08 04:56 PM)
Post Extras:
|
|
egon
|
|
Veteran Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/12/02
|
|
Posts: 3011
|
|
Loc: Nova Scotia,Canada
|
|
Re: Radon mitigation do it yourself
[re: Pat]
01/07/08 05:31 AM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
Aw come on Pat, Ive heard that a good simulator ride is like successful surgery on a cadaver.
Egon
Post Extras:
|
|
CJDave
|
|
Veteran Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 10/21/02
|
|
Posts: 851
|
|
Loc: Southeast Iowa
|
|
Re: Radon mitigation do it yourself
[re: Pat]
01/07/08 05:54 AM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
Without admitting to any degree of "gauge addiction", I will say that my 3/4 ton pickup has a temperture gauge on the rear axle. I saw it go to 265F once when I was pulling the Sierra Nevada Mtns with a very heavy gooseneck trailer. I reasoned that the pinion in that 14-bolt, full-floating, rear axle was the achilles heel of my drivetrain and as such, the temperature would need to be monitored. That axle is behind an SM465 main box and an NP205 transfer case with a twin-stick modification giving me 8 fwd gears in 2WD, so I had plenty of reduction and an all-gear system up front, but the rear axle had to take it or bust.
I kind of like the system that my Grand Cherokee has. It monitors the guage readings and a warning buzzer sounds if any of them are out of the "normal" range.
CJDave
Post Extras:
|
|
Pat
|
|
Veteran Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/15/02
|
|
Posts: 4889
|
|
Loc: SouthCentral Oklahoma
|
|
Re: Radon mitigation do it yourself
[re: egon]
01/07/08 08:02 AM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
Egon, Quite a colorful description, however, much of the realism depends on the instructor and how the mission is programed. When I was a shiny new instructor with little experience I slid open the canopy on a single engine jet sim to hand the pilot the telephone. He nearly went into cardiac arrest. He was so INTO the mission it was real to him and it took a moment for him to reacquire reality when he thought he was losing his canopy in mid flight at night in a thunderstorm on final approach.
Artificial reality is a good thing as when you make a mistake you and the plane don't combine to make a smoking hole in the ground with the last thing to go through your mind being the tail of the aircraft!
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
Post Extras:
|
|
Pat
|
|
Veteran Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/15/02
|
|
Posts: 4889
|
|
Loc: SouthCentral Oklahoma
|
|
Re: Radon mitigation do it yourself
[re: CJDave]
01/07/08 08:26 AM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
Dave, I was thinking of a 12 step program for gauge addiction (admitted or not) but got side tracked when I realized while reviewing my scratch notes that the first 6 steps I had posited were gauge installations!
About your rear axle and the lubrication/cooling of same... Gee Dave, will you be installing a reservoir for extra fluid and a heat exchanger to cool that puppy?
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
Post Extras:
|
|
CJDave
|
|
Veteran Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 10/21/02
|
|
Posts: 851
|
|
Loc: Southeast Iowa
|
|
Re: Radon mitigation do it yourself
[re: Pat]
01/08/08 07:44 AM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
We'll do like the NASCAR guys do and put a pulley on the pinion shaft which drives a pump and circulates five gallons of oil through a heat exchanger. If you aren't accustomed to seeing them, the values displayed on gearbox lube oil guages can be kind of unnerving. Of course we had synthetic oil in the piggy, and those 14-bolt rear axles have a third pinion bearing, but still, ......
CJDave
Post Extras:
|
Previous
Index
Next
Flat
Threaded