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HAY BALE SAWHORSE
01/27/08 09:09 AM
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My wife and I have been renovating an old house for some time now and cut up a lot of plywood and paneling. The biggest problem is supporting the material while cutting with a circular saw. Yesterday while covering a closet with thin chipboard cedar I took a couple of hay bales and laid the stuff on them and used them as a sacrificial saw horse. They held the material securely and all I had to do was make sure I cut to my lines. This has surely been done before but I am passing it on.
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egon
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Thank you. 
Now to get some grain seeds, plant a field, harvest and bale the straw and I'm away.
Bales would make good sawhorses.
I'd like to use some to build a house but that will never happen.
Egon
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Bird
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I don't think I've heard of doing that before, but it certainly sounds like a good idea if you have the hay to use.
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CJDave
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 Knot a bad idea! It would be a long time before you would have to change the bales, and even then you could roll them over and use the other side. Who would have thunk it! 
CJDave
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JazzDad
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Great idea. Don't use a cutting wheel on that metal siding or roofing, though.
All kids are gifted; some just open their packages earlier than others.-Michael Carr
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Pat
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Re: HAY BALE SAWHORSE
[re: JazzDad]
01/28/08 04:03 PM
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The only straw bale homes I have personally seen constructed were in Mexico quite near our recreational property. The workers used bales for saw horses, probably because they were right there handy. These are the same workers who use an old car hood for mixing mortar and when through let the mortar dry, turn the hood over and smack it a few times with a hammer and it is clean and ready to go again.
A lot of us Gringos make fun of Mexicans and their building practices but since necessity is the mother of invention they invest lots of ingenuity where they don't have capital to invest.
Some of the best functioning fences I have seen are made of living cacti and ocotillo plants. They plant and water green sticks from the ocotillo or branches of the cacti and water them and a fair percentage grows giving a self maintaining fence that holds domestic animals and will stop coyote and and dogs.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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TroyBilt
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Re: HAY BALE SAWHORSE
[re: Pat]
01/30/08 10:58 AM
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Love this phrase, "invest lots of ingenuity where they don't have capital to invest." In fact if you don't mind, I'm using it today. I've put my new learned phrase on the front page of our web site. You can check it out at www.helmickpharm.50megs.com
Oh, by the way I've used the hay bale sawhorse idea too. Hay was just sitting there while building our barn. Thought I'd put it to use.
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Pat
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Re: HAY BALE SAWHORSE
[re: TroyBilt]
01/30/08 11:39 AM
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Thanks for the nice comment. I find that I have often resembled that remark about ingenuity vs $.
I'm not the HTML police or anything but be advised that the dark blue lettering on your web site (against black background) is virtually illegible and a source of eyestrain. I assume you post info to let people see it not to tease them.
Just offering an observation. It is yours and you can do what you want with it.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
Edited by Pat (01/30/08 11:44 AM)
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TroyBilt
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Re: HAY BALE SAWHORSE
[re: Pat]
01/30/08 11:51 AM
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Pat, Not a tease at all. Thank you very much for the heads up! Changes on the way. Troy
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TroyBilt
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Re: HAY BALE SAWHORSE
[re: TroyBilt]
01/30/08 12:14 PM
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Ok, changes have been made. It has a little more contrast between the lettering and background which should make it a little easier on the eyes. If you don't mind, please let me know if it helps. Again, thanks for the heads up!
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Pat
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Re: HAY BALE SAWHORSE
[re: TroyBilt]
01/30/08 12:54 PM
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HMI is an interesting field (Human Machine Interface which was MMI back in the chauvinistic dark ages), the way we interact with machines. Ever notice how some software just seems to be easy to run/navigate even though it has lots of features and can do lots of stuff? That is usually no accident but a result of careful design, often evolved over time with input from users/testers. Same story with lots of machines and such. Some are easy to master and some may make the designer happy but no one else.
Luckily in the automotive world the brake, clutch, and throttle are in the same order from vehicle to vehicle and clockwise rotation of the steering wheel turns the vehicle to the right.
Web design can be an interesting task. Good luck to you with your site.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
Edited by Pat (01/30/08 12:58 PM)
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jml755
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Re: HAY BALE SAWHORSE
[re: Pat]
01/30/08 03:15 PM
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Probably the worst example of a poor MMI design (this example IS from the DARK AGES of computing, i.e. over 20 years ago.) was a mini-computer called "Four Phase". We had to use it on a project for Motorola because, as I recall, it was made by Motorola. Anyway, the keyboard layout would change every time you changed programs, i.e. the text editor would use one layout, the accounting program would use another, etc. The basic QWERTY would not change but other keys did. Of course, the letter physically etched on the key wouldn't change. so you needed a plastic overlay to find where the other keys had moved. I was not surprised to hear that those machines did not sell very well.
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Pat
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Re: HAY BALE SAWHORSE
[re: jml755]
01/31/08 09:13 AM
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You should be so lucky as to only have suffered the plastic overlay redefinition curse.
I feel your pain. I was in software development for several years either as my top priority or other duty as assigned. I even got to be the default web master for a computer based training development group for a while (as well as co-manager or the 30 person development team.) Lots of bright young designers are sure they have a better way but their way is usually not compatible with other's better way or the established standards.
On large development projects the work must be divided up to allow parallel development. This introduces the likelihood of different groups having a different look and feel to their portion of the development. Ever see an okapi? It is an animal that looks to have been designed by a committee where each committee member did his part his way. The software to which you refer sounds like the different parts (modes?) may have been developed by different folks with no direct supervision to enforce common standards.
I don't, in general, like many MS software products but at least they are fairly good at enforcing a common look and feel which reduces training time on new releases and new products and ditto for many Apple applications.
Without some standardization we'd all suffer from terminal Tower of Babble syndrome.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
Edited by Pat (01/31/08 09:14 AM)
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egon
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Re: HAY BALE SAWHORSE
[re: Pat]
01/31/08 09:43 AM
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Were not these overlays to protect the keyboard from Spaghetti sauce!
Egon
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Pat
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Re: HAY BALE SAWHORSE
[re: egon]
01/31/08 10:54 AM
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Requiring multiple overlays may have involved spaghetti but more likely spaghetti code than spaghetti sauce.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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jml755
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Re: HAY BALE SAWHORSE
[re: Pat]
01/31/08 11:48 AM
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Pat,
Not so sure about the spaghetti code, but it sure showed lack of concern for a consistent user interface. Regarding your comments on standards: Standards are funny things. They ensure that there is some consistency in s/w code. BUT.. that also means they can stifle creativity and ingenuity at the same time. Nothing worse than picking up some gibberish with no comments and trying to make a change when the temp programmer was long gone. Code development today in the commerical world is worse than it's ever been. I call it bloatware. The only thing that's saved us is the processors are faster than ever and memory (RAM & disk storage) is dirt cheap. This allows any yahoo that picks up a '(whatever) for Dummies' to develop a program or website and they call him a genius. Ok, just had to rant... Back to my cave.
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CJDave
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Re: HAY BALE SAWHORSE
[re: jml755]
01/31/08 06:54 PM
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I feel like a dinosaur reading through the posts about the computer stuff. FORTRAN was the big deal when I was in college and at the time it seemed kind of irrelevant to my chosen field so I ignored it. I can still remember the Engineering 103 per-fesser driving home the point that: "Despite how good it may look, a row of eight identical levers is not good machine design." Just this last Fall when I was harvesting corn, I found that the big John Deere tractor that I was driving; which has armchair controls and four absolutely identical hydraulic valve actuating switches; was a huge problem because I had to reach for the switches without actually LOOKING at the switches and if I flicked the wrong one it was a grain spill catastrophe. I finally ended up putting a spring clothespin on switch number two so I could find it easier and find it without tripping number one. I cannot even IMAGINE having to use a plastic keyboard overlay. To me that would be completely out of the question from a machine design standpopint, regardless of the "why". 
CJDave
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jml755
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Re: HAY BALE SAWHORSE
[re: CJDave]
02/01/08 07:12 AM
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CJDave,
The fun part (NOT) was when someone misplaced the overlay for the program YOU needed to run and you'd hit 3 or 4 keys looking for the exclamation point. (I think in 1 program, they moved it to the semi-colon key). Yeah, I remember FORTRAN. That was the 1st language I learned in college, too. Actually, the older languages were not bad. They were structured, had rules, manuals to read, etc. I hated C++, because the data structures could be so confusing (i.e. an array of pointers to pointers of arrays, etc.) Some programmers would go nuts with the nesting of structures. I actually had programmers who couldn't agree on an expected outcome of a line of code. Than when it was executed, it gave a completely different result than any of them wanted. By the way, I used to walk 3 miles to school.....barefoot.....in the snow.... uphill both ways......
Comment on the original topic: This is the reason I read forums like this. A great tip for cutting plywood. I usually spend more time setting up sawhorses to support the piece than I do actually making the cut.
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Pat
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Re: HAY BALE SAWHORSE
[re: jml755]
02/01/08 08:58 AM
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A while back in my spare time I taught software engineering classes in the evening for seniors in the computer science program and I taught the senior projects classes (12 quarter hour series) too. I have heard every imaginable variant of how having to follow the rules stifles creativity.
I imagine that automotive engineering profs have to listen to that too. How would you like to own three vehicles, each with a creative user interface. One uses a tiller modeled after a boat where you push the tiller to the left to turn to the right, another with conventional steering (but with brake pedal on the right side of the accelerator) and a third that requires a counterclockwise turn of the steering wheel to turn to the right?
Would you buy a house wired by a "creative" electrician, unfettered by codes?
Software can be like that. There is a lot of psychology and human attributes to be taken into account before you develop the next "this is really cool" user interface. I appreciate creativity and when funneled into productive channels it is a good thing. Making things different just to be different or to suite one person but have training issues with everyone else is counterproductive.
OK I confess, I was a maverick in school and not too far from the edges of the envelope some of the time as a prof and on the job where I designed systems that had to be used by Naval personnel and get it right. I never tried to stifle creativity but to channel it toward a productive end.
Put some "Creative" code slingers in a group project where stable defined interfaces are absolutely mandatory and you soon see the utility of standards. The goal of programmers used to be to do something really cute, so obscure you would be the envy of everyone and be asked "HOW DID YOU DO THAT?" The real goal is to write code that is transparent such that any competent maintenance programmer can see exactly what you did and how to make changes. The former is a time and money waster while the later is nirvana.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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jml755
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Re: HAY BALE SAWHORSE
[re: Pat]
02/01/08 02:42 PM
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Pat,
Amen to your last paragraph. Speakin of sawhorses.... speaking of saws...... I just took my tablesaw blade and a bunch of circular saw blades in to be sharpened. Guy took a look and said only 1 (10" Delta) was worth sharpening ($15). All the rest would cost more to sharpen than I could buy them new. Hated to just toss them, so I'll hang them on my pegboard for about 10 years THEN throw them out.
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egon
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Re: HAY BALE SAWHORSE
[re: jml755]
02/01/08 03:27 PM
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Them's the ones you use for real rough stuff. After you find a nail with the good blade of course!
Egon
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Pat
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Re: HAY BALE SAWHORSE
[re: jml755]
02/01/08 03:52 PM
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JML, You need to learn patience. 10 years is not nearly an adequate time to store/save old useless blades!
As Egon said, there are uses for old blades. Cutting nail infested wood is one but there are others. You can press an old blade into service to cut light sheet metal. They can sort of cut Hardie board. I saw a pretty clever guy turn his old blade around backwards when he wanted to cut... hmm, was that light sheet metal, Hardie panel or what? I don't recall right now.
You can also make a mobile out of old blades or a wind chime, or both. I have seen lots of paintings for sale at flea markets done on old saw blades. Find an artist into slop art and give them the blades. IF yo do a project where you need a small piece of good steel, the blade may be THE THING. I have made small putty knives out of scrap metal strapping off a crate by adding a wooden handle. You can do similar with bandsaw blade material.
Old saw blades make good pellet gun or BB gun targets and RING OUT when hit. Good for more powerful guns too but you have to beware of the possibility of ricochet.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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CJDave
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Re: HAY BALE SAWHORSE
[re: Pat]
02/01/08 07:49 PM
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You can also dual up the old blades and make an "emergency" dado. Pat, .... speaking of machine variations...... one of the most difficult vehicles I ever drove was a Model T Ford. You have to press on your brain and keep pressing on it to make yourself PUSH the far left pedal to GO and then HOLD the far left pedal halfway and then PUSH the Right hand pedal for reverse, and then for high gear you take your feet off everything. My dad told me that folks who learned to drive in a Model T had a difficult time with a clutch and transmission car. A "T was basically a manually operated planetary transmission, an automatic without the automation.
CJDave
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Pat
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Re: HAY BALE SAWHORSE
[re: CJDave]
02/03/08 09:05 AM
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Did you get "into" candles on the dash for defrosters and backing up hills when low on gas?
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
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