|
Nat
|
|
Gold Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 12/14/04
|
|
Posts: 282
|
|
Loc: Lexington NC
|
|
Dump trailer
02/25/06 02:45 PM Attachment
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
I sold my old dump truck because I can't justify the expense of tag and insurance for no more than I use it, and it was awfully slow on the road. Since I need a dump often I thought I would build me a dump trailer.
It seems like there is a lot of interest in dump trailers so I thought I would build it on this website as well as in my shop. I went yesterday and bought the steel. I got 6-20' sticks of 5" channel, 2-20' sticks of 2X2X1/4" angle - 4X8'X11gaflat metal, and 1 piece of 1/2"X4"X4" flat bar. Total cost was 642.00
I went on Wed. and bought the pump/valve/resivoir/motor, hitch and tongue jack. The cost for those was 497.00
I started this morning cutting the steel to length. The trailer will be 6' X 12'
Post Extras:
|
|
Nat
|
|
Gold Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 12/14/04
|
|
Posts: 282
|
|
Loc: Lexington NC
|
|
|
Here I have the sub frame welded together sitting on the bucks It is just a 6' X 12' rectangle butt welded together
Post Extras:
|
|
Nat
|
|
Gold Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 12/14/04
|
|
Posts: 282
|
|
Loc: Lexington NC
|
|
|
I always make an A-frame tongue because it stops the frame from racking. The tongue is made of 5" channel the same as the frame. Here is the tongue with the hitch and jack mounted
Post Extras:
|
|
Nat
|
|
Gold Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 12/14/04
|
|
Posts: 282
|
|
Loc: Lexington NC
|
|
|
In this pic it shows how far the A-frame goes back under the front of the subframe, and how I terminate the A-frame. I also have the main frame welded together sitting on top of the subframe as it will be when it is finished. the main frame sticks back 1' behind the subframe
Post Extras:
|
|
Nat
|
|
Gold Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 12/14/04
|
|
Posts: 282
|
|
Loc: Lexington NC
|
|
|
Here is a shot of the Pump. I got it at Northern, it's a 1800 psi, 1.6 gallon per minute pump with a 20' cord set. It will be power up, and gravity down.
The cyl is a 4" 2 stage cyl that I have had for years. The first stage has a 24 " stroke, and the second stage is a 3" stroke with 28" of travel. I'm not sure why the 2 stages don't travel the same distance, but it realy doesn't matter to me anyway.
I could have gotten a 4" X 24" cyl from Northern for 109.00, but the store closest to me doesn't stock it so I would have had to have them order it and no telling how long that would have taken. A 4"x 24" cyl would work good, but the 2 stage will give a steeper dump angle so that can't hurt, and like I said I already had it.
Here is a pic of the pump and cyl
Post Extras:
|
|
Nat
|
|
Gold Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 12/14/04
|
|
Posts: 282
|
|
Loc: Lexington NC
|
|
Re: Dump trailer
[re: Nat]
02/25/06 03:15 PM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
I'll keep you posted as I get more done, but that isn't bad for 5 hours work. Later, Nat
Post Extras:
|
|
Pat
|
|
Veteran Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/15/02
|
|
Posts: 4889
|
|
Loc: SouthCentral Oklahoma
|
|
Re: Dump trailer
[re: Nat]
02/25/06 11:22 PM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
Nat, I'll be looking forward to see this project develop. I thought I bought a dump truck. I agreed to the guy's price and told him I'd take it at his earliest convenience and then... So I guess I may be back to my thoughts of making a removable dump attachment to go on my 12,000 lb rated util trailer. It is dual axle with 4 wheel brakes. I was thinking of a side dump with a couple fold down jacks to support the side where you dump so as to not have all the load on the one side and stress the bearings, wheels, and tires.
One friend suggested a belly dump but I don't think there is enough clearance to avoid putting too much stuff in the way of moving out with the trailer.
 Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
Post Extras:
|
|
CJDave
|
|
Veteran Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 10/21/02
|
|
Posts: 851
|
|
Loc: Southeast Iowa
|
|
Re: Dump trailer
[re: Nat]
02/26/06 05:50 AM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
 That looks pretty good, Nat.  I have actually considered building a dump trailer a number of times. For small jobs, a six-foot wide trailer like that would be perfect. I could put a "wet kit" on my pickup pretty easy since both the main transmission and the transfer case have PTO doors on them. At one time I even thought about making a goose-neck dump trailer so I could completely jacknife it into small spaces with loads of sand and gravel.
CJDave
Post Extras:
|
|
|
Re: Dump trailer
[re: CJDave]
02/28/06 10:03 PM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
Nat,
please continue to update your progress, and continue to include pics. I am very interested in your trailer but lack metal experience. A set of drawings would be great also.
Post Extras:
|
|
Nat
|
|
Gold Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 12/14/04
|
|
Posts: 282
|
|
Loc: Lexington NC
|
|
|
I worked on the trailer today and have the cyl mounted. There will be a lot of stress when the cyl extends so I made a truss on the bed side of the cyl. I will also do something similar on the anchor end. This fuzzy pic shows the cyl in place. The anchor end is 11" lower than the live end. I'm no engineer and don't know how to figure the lift capacity, but just guessing from a bunch of years of this sort of stuff, I'm sure the lift will excede the trailer limit of 10,000 lbs.
Later, Nat
Post Extras:
|
|
Nat
|
|
Gold Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 12/14/04
|
|
Posts: 282
|
|
Loc: Lexington NC
|
|
|
I have the hinge done for the dump. The 5" channel subframe web isn't strong enough for the hinge so I had to put a sleeve in it. I have a piece of 1/2 x 4 plate that goes from the top of the mainframe extending down to the bottom of the subframe. I cut a hole in the 5" channel and capped the open side with a piece of 4'' X 4 1/2" X 3/8" plate and welded a piece of 2" ID DOM tube from the channel to the flat plate. I was going to use 1 1/4 shaft for the hinge pin, but decided to use some 2" that I had laying around. The 2" shaft wasn't long enough to extend thru and drill for a cotter key, so I welded a cap on one end and drilled and tapped a hole in the end and will bolt a piece of flat bar to keep the pin in place. It's hard to discribe what I'm talking about, but maybe this pic will Help.
Post Extras:
|
|
Nat
|
|
Gold Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 12/14/04
|
|
Posts: 282
|
|
Loc: Lexington NC
|
|
Re: Dump trailer
[re: Nat]
03/01/06 06:26 PM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
I'm not5 used to this stuff and my shoulders are killing me so I'm going to do something different tomorrow. My axles and tires won't be in till Mom, anyway so it won't hold me up
Post Extras:
|
|
GaryM
|
|
Veteran Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/12/02
|
|
Posts: 1210
|
|
Loc: Warrenton, MO
|
|
Re: Dump trailer
[re: Nat]
03/02/06 08:37 AM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
Looking very nice Nat. Sounds as though your engineering it as you go along. I guess you have enough experience to do that. I know that I don't. 
Are the body sides going to be steel, or perhaps wood?
Gary
----------------------------------------------
Hey! Aren't you supposed to be working?
Post Extras:
|
|
CJDave
|
|
Veteran Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 10/21/02
|
|
Posts: 851
|
|
Loc: Southeast Iowa
|
|
Re: Dump trailer
[re: GaryM]
03/03/06 06:37 PM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
Gary, it's simple: Bore Squared X .7854 X PSI X ELA=Torque. Load weight X ELA = Torque. If the first product is greater than the second, the trailer will dump. If not, then oh well.
(ELA is effective lever arm) 
CJDave
Post Extras:
|
|
Nat
|
|
Gold Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 12/14/04
|
|
Posts: 282
|
|
Loc: Lexington NC
|
|
Re: Dump trailer
[re: CJDave]
03/04/06 06:44 AM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
CJDave, Help me out here a little. I always use the radius squared times pi times pressure per square in to give me the pounds of push. In my case with the 4" diameter of the first stage I'll have 20096 pounds of push, but I don't know how that relates to how much it will dump. The anchor end is 8'9" from the trailer hinge the "live end" is 6' from the hinge end and the anchor end is 11" lower than the "live end". What is the ELA, and where does the .7854 come in. Sounds like you know what you are talking about so it may be something I need to know in the future, Later, Nat
Post Extras:
|
|
Nat
|
|
Gold Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 12/14/04
|
|
Posts: 282
|
|
Loc: Lexington NC
|
|
Re: Dump trailer
[re: Nat]
03/04/06 11:02 AM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
A guy on TBN sent me a link to this website http://www.baumhydraulics.com/cyl_calc_ang.htm
From it it looks like I'll have 6877 lbs of lift at the "live end" of the cyl. That is about 6 ft from the hinge so should be more than I'll ever need. It is a neat site that may come in handy for someone
Post Extras:
|
|
CJDave
|
|
Veteran Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 10/21/02
|
|
Posts: 851
|
|
Loc: Southeast Iowa
|
|
Re: Dump trailer
[re: Nat]
03/04/06 09:19 PM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
The ratio between the area of a square and the area of the inscribed circle is .7854. A Circle is .7854 of the same size square. So if you have a 4 X 4 post and throw it in a lathe and turn it into a round shape, the new area of the end of that post is 16 X .7854. What you need to know Nat is HOW HIGH above the pivot pin the live end cylinder trunion is. If you draw a line through the trunion pins of the cylinder, and then drop down and draw a parallel line which goes through the pivot pin of the dump bed, the distance between those parallel lines is the Effective Lever Arm that the cylinder has to work with when the dump is at the bottom. Then figure the load in pounds and the average distance from the pivot pin that the center of load is, and that distance is the Effective lever Arm of the load. So Load (pounds) times Effective lever Arm(inches), equals Torque Required. Then cylinder PSI times Area times Effective Lever Arm is the torque available. Hopefully the "available" is greater than the "required".
CJDave
Post Extras:
|
|
Nat
|
|
Gold Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 12/14/04
|
|
Posts: 282
|
|
Loc: Lexington NC
|
|
Re: Dump trailer
[re: CJDave]
03/06/06 11:25 AM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
CJDave, I did the calculations you suggested and I come up with some weird numbers. I have 20106 as the (sq of the cyl X the psi ). From the live end of the cyl pin down to the hinge pin of the bed is 10", so 10 X 20106 =201060. The expected load is 6000 lbs so 6000 x 10 =60000. since 60000 is less than 201060 it will work.
So if I subtract 60000 from 201060 and then devide by 11 I get 12823. Is that how much it should dump?
Thanks, Nat
Post Extras:
|
|
Nat
|
|
Gold Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 12/14/04
|
|
Posts: 282
|
|
Loc: Lexington NC
|
|
Re: Dump trailer
[re: Nat]
03/06/06 03:30 PM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
Well, it's do-over time. I gave it a dry run today, by hooking up the hyd. hose and running jumper cables from my truck. My cyl. is to big. I run out of the 2 1/2 gal resavior before it is half way up. I had just measured the ram on my 2 stage cyl, and it was 4". That was fine , except the piston is actually 5". So I don't have enough volume of fluid to use that big of a cyl. It is cheaper to get another cyl, so I ordered it from Northern today. I'll also have to re do the mounts because the cyl I have has a welded end and the cyl. I'm getting is clevis mount. Not a big problem, but stil would rather it worked right the first time., Later, Nat
Post Extras:
|
|
CJDave
|
|
Veteran Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 10/21/02
|
|
Posts: 851
|
|
Loc: Southeast Iowa
|
|
Re: Dump trailer
[re: Nat]
03/07/06 03:11 AM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
Actually, the Effective lever Arm for the load may be more than 10". Remember that you use the center of load times the distance that the center point of the load is from the bed hinge pin. What was the "divide by eleven".....I didn't get that step. Also, be sure that when you measure the height of the cylinder live trunion above the bed hinge that the two lines are parallel to each other, not level with the earth. The one line goes through both cylinder pins and that gives you the starting point, then the lower line is parallel to that.
CJDave
Post Extras:
|
|
stumpfield
|
|
Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 12/27/05
|
|
Posts: 31
|
|
Loc: usa
|
|
Re: Dump trailer
[re: Nat]
03/07/06 09:17 AM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
What type of welder is best for a novice welder wanting to building a trailer. I'm curious what welder (brand/model) do you use in this project? I want to get a welder. My 1st project will be building a trailer. Thanks.
Post Extras:
|
|
egon
|
|
Veteran Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/12/02
|
|
Posts: 3011
|
|
Loc: Nova Scotia,Canada
|
|
|
Please do us all a favor and get some practice welding before you make a trailer and take it on the road.
Egon
Post Extras:
|
|
stumpfield
|
|
Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 12/27/05
|
|
Posts: 31
|
|
Loc: usa
|
|
Re: Dump trailer
[re: egon]
03/07/06 03:27 PM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
Thank you for the advice Egon. I own a little lincoln handymig for many years and have welded a lot of stuff. Since it's a 110v light duty welder, I want to get a bigger one to take on the trailer project. Don't worry, I'll include a sign behind the trailer "made by stumpfield" so you'll know it's me.
Post Extras:
|
|
egon
|
|
Veteran Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/12/02
|
|
Posts: 3011
|
|
Loc: Nova Scotia,Canada
|
|
|
stumpfield:
Opp's; foot in mouth has struck me again. Seems to be a fairly common occurence. Soon outside weather will be here and I can go outside rather than make attempts at missinformation! 
Egon
Post Extras:
|
|
Pat
|
|
Veteran Member
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 09/15/02
|
|
Posts: 4889
|
|
Loc: SouthCentral Oklahoma
|
|
Re: Dump trailer
[re: egon]
03/08/06 05:47 PM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
|
|
Regardng welders and weldors... This weldor uses two arc welders. I have a 120 volt MIG which has abilitiy to use shielding gas but I just use InnerShield (flux cored wire) that is god for up to 1/4 inch on mild steel with multi-pass techniques. I also have an AC/DC stick welder for heavier stuff. Both are Lincoln brand, both were bought new, both are getting old (like me) and neither has ever had a single problem of any kind that I didn't precipitate through my stupidity. Neither has ever had any repairs and they just keep on working and seem to thrive on abuse.
If I were to build a trailer (I don't do light duty trailers) I'd use the MIG for tacking and fitting and any light duty areas of construction and get to the serious work with the stick machine.
If you buy a larger stronger MIG that woild replace the stick welder but wold probably cost considerably more than the pair like I have.
STICK TO A MAJOR NAME BRAND Lincoln, Hobart, etc. Not Harbot Freight or Home depot, JC Whitney or...
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
Post Extras:
|
Previous
Index
Next
Flat
Threaded
