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GAFarmer
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Best Welder
12/16/05 01:45 PM
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What is the best welder for welding 1/2 inch rusty steel?
"I hate lucky people, unless I happen to be the lucky person."- Cody Rehberg
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CJDave
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 Ideally, a 200 Amp DC machine, with either electric or internal combustion engine drive? The other end of the range would be a 200 Amp AC machine with something like 6013 rod. Inexpensive AC welders are everywhere and as long as you aren't trying to weld ovehead, they are fine. 
CJDave
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GAFarmer
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Re: Best Welder
[re: CJDave]
12/19/05 11:53 AM
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Thanks CJDave, what brand do you recommend?
"I hate lucky people, unless I happen to be the lucky person."- Cody Rehberg
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Pat
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While you are waiting for Dave to respond... The top names are top names for a reason. It is tough to beat equipment from Lincoln, Hobart, etc. Beware of the "just like a Lincoln" or made by Hobart but with a different name... Even if made in the same factory, if made to different specifications (usually lower power, duty cycle, reduced robustnous) it isn't the same. GM built army tanks to MilSpec and they built the Cadilac but they also built the Nova and the like. They were not all built to the same degree of perfection.
For casual use you may get by with a cheap store brand or brand X or harbor Freight on sale special but if you want it to do a good job for a long time, buy a name brand, used is OK. Your basic AC "buzzbox" is pretty fool proof with little to wear out that can't be replaced so don't be afraid of used. My welders were bought new but are decades old used units now but work as well as they did out of the box.
Testamonial: My Electricians had just bought a MIG wire feed unit for use with flux cored wire. It works pretty good B_U_T when they didn't have theirs with them and used mine for a few minutes they found out how little MIGs are supposed to weld. They sure wish they had paid a few $ more and got one like mine. There was a lot of difference in the ease of making a good weld which effects the quality of the weld. That is the difference between brand X Campbell Hausfeld painted on a chinese product or whatever and a real welder, Lincoln in this case. I know there are other GOOD brands like Hobart and Miller but I happen to have two Lincolns.
You can even build your own arc welder. http://www.dansworkshop.com/Homebuilt%20arc%20welder.shtml
This is a very practical project that can be successfully completed by folks with rather low electrical skill levels. It is a pretty "mechanical" process to follow the instructions and build a pretty good welder that you can easily repair if needed. The designer has selected a pulse width modulaton technique for varying welding heat. This is a good method. It was used on the portable arc welder project I worked on decades ago. There are even simpler ways to arrange to change welding heat in steps with the basice design presented. I DID NOT tally up the cost to build one of these welders but it should be cheaper than buying a comparable welder if your scrounging abillities are good. Many of the components should be found for free or realy cheap.
The plans are $9 for 4.6 meg super complete PDF file but are also available in a html version for free. Parts cost to build a decent welder ranges from free to $150 depending on your scrounging abilities.
 Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
Edited by Pat (12/19/05 04:01 PM)
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CJDave
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I would definitely stick with the good guy brands like Lincoln and Miller and Hobart. If you want to compare welders to welders, WEIGH THEM. Good windings are copper, and copper is heavy. When Pat mentioned that his contractor found that Pat's welder was easier to use, I would bet anything that Pat's welder uses a: "constant potential" welding source. In other words, it's DC. Direct current welds continually, alternating current stops welding sixty times per second. Lincoln is still making the red, tombstone-shaped welder, and they are a proven asset to any non-commercial shop. You can get it in AC or AC/DC.
CJDave
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GAFarmer
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Re: Best Welder
[re: CJDave]
12/20/05 03:28 PM
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What do you guys think about something like the Hobart Stickmate 205 AC?
"I hate lucky people, unless I happen to be the lucky person."- Cody Rehberg
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CJDave
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Have no direct experience with that model.
CJDave
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CJDave
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Re: Best Welder
[re: CJDave]
12/21/05 07:10 AM
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I just looked at HOME DEPOT's "Tool Box" tool catalog and they show two Lincoln "Tombstone" welders; one is AC only and one is AC-DC. The AC is $239 and the AC/DC is $387. You could not ask for a better home-grade welder. If you had that AC/DC, it opens a wider range of welding possibilities and rod choices, since many of the best rods are "DC only". The BIG DIFFERENCE between these units and what I have in my shop is DUTY CYCLE. I suspect that most of the "home grade" welders have somewhere around a 25% duty cycle at top-end settings, where as most industrial-grade stuff would be much higher......perhaps 80%. Duty cycle is not much of a consideration unless you are building up the tracks or the blade on the dozer and going hour-after-hour with harfacing rod.
CJDave
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Re: Best Welder
[re: CJDave]
12/21/05 10:39 AM
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Now hold up just one second, I think duty cycle is very important. Now if I remember correctly (its been about 2 years since I have done any welding) duty cycle is the # of minutes a welder can run out of ten. For example, if a welder has a 20% duty cycle, it can run 2 out of the 10 minutes, needing the other 8 to rest. I hate to say it but I want to be able to weld for more than 2 minutes out of ten. If I want to weld, I want to be able to WELD, not sit and read my latest issue of "Soap Opera Today:The Magazine". 
"I hate lucky people, unless I happen to be the lucky person."- Cody Rehberg
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GAFarmer
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Oh, I just thought of another question guys. Do you have some tips on doing overhead welding with a MIG welder. One of my buddies is wanting to weld some empty piping in his barn together so he can put wire in there to keep the mice away from it. It has already been tacked up on the hangars and tacked together, so what should he do? I told him I thought it would be a heck of a lot easier to tear it down (it's only tacked on) and weld it on the ground. That way you don't have to try welding over your head. As you can probably tell, I don't like to weld in the overhead position at all. So, any suggestions for him? 
"I hate lucky people, unless I happen to be the lucky person."- Cody Rehberg
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Bird
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Of course you're right about what duty cycle is, and a low duty cycle I would think would be a problem for a professional welder. However, I had a little 120 volt "Miller de Mexico" stick welder that always did what I needed to do, and it had a 10% duty cycle.  I like frequent coffee breaks, but it did admittedly occasionally provide more of them than I needed.
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Pat
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Re: Best Welder
[re: Bird]
12/21/05 12:56 PM
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My AC/DC welder is the old standard Lincoln box Dave described. It is now over 10 years old and works like new. It is a heavy dude. I have never felt limited by its duty cycle. Stick welding requires a lot of tasks to be done besides running a bead. You need to chip slag, grind, etc. You will be busy doing other things while your welder is resting so it is a non-problem virtually all the time. If you can't dredge up enough patience to survive those few times when you might exceed the duty cycle then spend 5 times as much and get a welder that is way beyond your reasonable needs and be happy. The DIY welder I mentioned would be a good candidate for continuous duty with minor changes, at most.
My MIG on the other hand (Lincoln Weld Pak 100, does DC straight or reversed polarity) lets you know when you have exceeded your duty cycle allotment as it shuts down to protect itself and won't start up again till it is ready. This only anoys me on rare occasions when I get in too big of a hurry at higher settings. This welder was never intended to be used in a high production heavy duty environment. Still after over 10 years it is as good as new and does everything I need when I don't get carried away. If I paid about 5-8 times as much I wouldn't be "bogged down" with a low duty cycle.
I don't have the $ to always buy the HD top of the line of everything. Good management practice is to buy as much performance as you need with a reasoable reserve, appropriate for your application but to not go overboard on each and every tool or system. Only you can make the judgement of how much is enough. All anyone else can do is relate their experience or make suggestions based on their experience and their perhaps flawed understanding of your needs and desires (not neccessarily the same thing.)
It is your $ so you have to decide. My observaton is that a little patience applied over time would save a lot of money. I also think yoi would be real happy with the DIY welder I mentioned. I have corresponded with its originator and am convinced it is a good welder and an outstanding bargain for the cost.
Pat
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
Edited by Pat (12/21/05 01:00 PM)
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CJDave
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Remember.......the duty cycle is based on welding at the TOP END of the range; anything lower that all-ahead-full is obviously a higher duty cycle number. Pat is right about the "incidentals" being just about enough time for the machine to recover. One of those Lincolns has a fan in it to help cool those windings.......maybe both. Welding overhead with wire welders can be a ghastly business; you'll need the BEST LEATHERS that money can buy. By far, my WORST BURNS are from welding overhead with wire welders  I have a nice wire machine, but for overhead, I actually prefer a good DC stick machine with 6011 5/32". I'll weld all the overhead stuff you have with that combo.
CJDave
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GAFarmer
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Re: Best Welder
[re: CJDave]
12/22/05 01:54 PM
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Nice info. Thanks guys!!!!!
"I hate lucky people, unless I happen to be the lucky person."- Cody Rehberg
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lynxpilot
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FWIW, I'd recommend DC capability for an inexpensive stick machine. AC with stick usually spatters and isn't any fun even if the rod is supposed to be AC capable. 6010 rod is the classic rod for dirty steel and generally burns through zinc (galvanized), rust, and paint. It's a little tougher to weld with. 6013 is often called 'farmers' rod' because you can get a half-decent looking weld with little skill or knowlege, but lacks some of the penetration ability and burn-out of 6010. Once you lay a root pass with 6010, so long as the rest of the weld area is fairly clean, you can top off with 7018. It's an easy rod to lay a nice strong bead with that looks nice too. Just remember to keep the rod dry until you use it. All mentioned are all-position rods.
For your overhead MIG friend, as long as he's using short-circuit transfer mode on a MIG machine, he should be OK for all position welding. If he gets into the high-current (high wire feed rate) regime, he'll be wearing metal blobs. He also shouldn't be using MIG for dirty half-inch steel either. MIG does a lot better with good fit-up and clean weld areas. If he's welding sloppy, dirty areas, he can use his MIG machine but use flux core wire with it. Make sure he reads the instructions on polarity with flux core. Can be used with or without shield gas.
Good luck.
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welder
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You can get by with a miller thunderbolt AC/DC just fine. You will have to do the fillet weld on 1/2 inch anyway even if you by the most expensive industrial welder, so why waste the money. The AC/DC will run you somewhere around $400 or so. You will be just fine with it. 
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