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MelonHead
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budget sewer line for workshop
07/06/04 03:29 PM
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I'd like to install a sink and a urinal in my workshop. It's too far from the septic tank and putting in a new septic system would be cost prohibitive.
The shop is maybe 40 feet from a little dry creek and I thought about running a line to the creek and calling it good. FWIW, I'm already using the creek for bathroom breaks as it is! 
But I thought that instead of running the sewer line to the creek, how about putting in a run of porous pipe in a gravel field or something similar and keep the whole thing underground. Sort of like one leg of a septic field?
This would be for liquids only and wouldn't get much use.
Anybody done something similar?
I'm only vaguely familiar with septic systems and how the field lines are set up. Any pointers???
TIA.
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cowboydoc
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Re: budget sewer line for workshop
[re: MelonHead]
07/07/04 04:57 PM
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If you get caught doing that not only will you pay for the cost of ten septic tanks in fines but you also face jail time as well. I would not recommend doing it. You are not only polluting your water but all of the water downstream.
In most states for any kind of a septic system you have to have a county permit. Find out what your county requires and do that or face the consequences if you get caught putting in your own without a permit.
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zuiko
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Re: budget sewer line for workshop
[re: MelonHead]
07/08/04 01:56 PM
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You might want to consider resale too. That is the kind of weird thing that can cause lots of problems when you try to sell.
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MelonHead
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Re: budget sewer line for workshop
[re: cowboydoc]
07/08/04 02:55 PM
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In reply to:
You are not only polluting your water but all of the water downstream.
Thanks for the response. I'm not sure that I understand.
Me, my dogs, horses other animals are whizzing all over my property and with the possible (but not likely) exception of me, nothing is going to change that.
Unless all of mother natures filtration takes place only in the first two feet of earth, I do not see how "discharging" minute quantities of urine two feet under the ground will polute my wells or those "downstream" (there has only been water in that creek three times in the last ten years and in each of those times the creek went dry in a few days!).
I guess I'm more of a hick than I thought. I use natures urinal almost exclusively. When I'm hot, dirty and tired, the last thing I want to do is to hike up to the house from the shop. So I don't.
My neighbor agrees with this logic and recently put a "urinal" in his shop. It's made from a big honkin funnel, a bucket with the bottom cut out, some caulk, a hole in the wall and a rubber hose. And it's extremely convenient!!! He's even thinking about adding a tee in the water line to a nearby swamp cooler so he can open a little ball valve to "flush". Man, that will be the cat's meow.
OK, I have to admit. I don't always whiz on the ground outside.
Sometimes I use the shower drain.
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JazzDad
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Re: budget sewer line for workshop
[re: MelonHead]
07/09/04 11:37 AM
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Things change. In the past, it was an acceptable practice to dump all sorts of things into landfills. Now we find rocket fuel in our milk. We all need to do our part to minimize pollution. A septic system is much better than allowing anything to run directly into the creek. If professionally designed, one of the considerations will be the distance from the end of the leach field to any open water. This is to prevent untreated waste from getting out.
With that said, Melonhead, we aren't getting after you- just making some positive encouragement to do what's best for you, your neighbors, and the folks who will be here when we are gone. 
All kids are gifted; some just open their packages earlier than others.-Michael Carr
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student101
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Re: budget sewer line for workshop
[re: MelonHead]
07/09/04 12:10 PM
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Laughing my A$$ off Shower drain!!!! does a bear $__t in the woods? sorry for my cander but this hit me straight in the funny bone, My mom once taught her cat to p in the toilet not the shower drain.
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beenthere
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Re: budget sewer line for workshop
[re: MelonHead]
07/09/04 12:12 PM
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Keep cool. 
Don't get too excited and miss CowboyDoc's point. I don't see that he is talking about 'whizing' outside. Seems he is talking about your pipe to the dry creek.
Seems some post a question and then don't like to hear any other answers, but their own.  We don't have your actual situation in mind, but can only go by the heading of the thread, and what you initially tell us.
I thought CowboyDoc's response was informative, and not critical of your whizing wherever you want. Just don't run a sewer line into a creek.
I think your neighbor has a good idea. Are you just trying to 'one-up' the neighbor?
Edited by beenthere (07/09/04 12:13 PM)
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MelonHead
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Thanks for the replies fellas. It's been good for a chortle if nothing else.
To level set you guys RE my expectations, I have attached a picture of my friends home grown urinal. The "Men"s sign was a nice touch.
The puzzler for me is that I don't believe that anybody would find it an offense to nature for me to do my business in my DRY creek or to wash my hands using a gargen hose in the same creek. But to run an underground pipe to the same location and do the same activities from the privacy of my shop is a Bad Thing. 
Perhaps I should mention that I am located in the Texas panhandle. Our annual rainfall puts us close to a desert climate. Surface water doesn't last long here.
Also, my note suggested that I would actually _prefer_ to not run the pipe to the creek and instead just set up a lateral line of sorts underground.
Oh well, FWIW, I did a little Google'ing and found
the home made urinal drain specs I was looking for!
From the Manual of Naval Preventive Medicine:
Chapter 9: Preventive Medicine for Ground Forces: Section IV. Waste Disposal Methods in the Field
Subsection 9-27. Disposal of Human Waste.
f. Urine soakage pit. This temporary latrine is most effectively used in sandy soils. It is dug 4 feet square by 4 feet deep. The pit is filled to within 6 inches of ground level with any of the following materials, large rocks, flattened tin cans, broken bottles, rubble, bricks or other suitable contact material. Ventilation shafts will be inserted into the pit to within 6 inches of the bottom. The shafts will extend 6 to 12 inches above ground level. This allows air to circulate through the pit and lessens odors. Six urine tubes, made of 1 inch by 36 inch pipe, are then inserted into the pit. The tubes are inserted, at a slight angle, about 8 inches below ground level, which leaves about 26 inches above ground level. A screened funnel, made of moisture proof material, is placed in the top of the tube. Oil soaked burlap is then spread over the pit and covered with 6 inches of compacted earth. One pipe will accommodate 20 men, figure 9-13.
OK, let's see... If the urine soakage pit described above will acommodate 20 men who will use it (I assume) regularly, I guess for just me, using only occasionally...let's see...36inches divided by 20...26inches divided by the square root of pipe diameter multiplied the natural log of.....YES: A hole a foot or so deep with a bucketfull of gravel should work nicely.
Perfect.
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beenthere
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Re: budget sewer line for workshop
[re: MelonHead]
07/09/04 09:32 PM
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Looks like you are on a roll now. That is good. I don't mind you doing what you want to do. In that panhandle area, save all the moisture you can. 
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MelonHead
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Re: budget sewer line for workshop
[re: beenthere]
08/17/04 10:03 AM
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FWIW, yesterday I had a honey dipper come out and pump my septic tank. He also does septic installs and was familiar with the rules and regs for septic-related stuff. I asked him about my "sewer" options for a remote work shop.
He said that regulations have actually been relaxed in one area - it is now OK to discharge gray water on top of the ground, or in a shallow gravel field. So for instance, it would be fine to put a wash sink in the shop and drain it wherever, with no septic necessary.
So I may go that route.
And, hey, if I put in a second, smaller sink, kinda like this one, and mount it kinda low, that would be OK too! Hey, it's just a sink!
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LazyJ_Arabians
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Re: budget sewer line for workshop
[re: MelonHead]
08/18/04 10:26 PM
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Looks like funnel guy has a leak in his trap or he needs a bigger funnel? My wife wants a full function facility in the barn for her birthday next month. I'm thinking a concrete distribution box for a settling tank and maybe 50-75' of perf pipe in gravel for processing two or three flushes per day. I do hate those early morning mad sprints for the house only to find all three bathrooms busy.
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roypat2126
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Re: budget sewer line for workshop
[re: MelonHead]
08/20/04 02:13 PM
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"it is now OK to discharge gray water on top of the ground, or in a shallow gravel field. "
Hey MelonHead. The honeydipper guy only gave you part of the answer. Gray water is different then sewage water, although you can put both down the drain which for the most part now days in the US is common place. The outhouse at my grandfolks' sat right on the ground and we sat and watched the chickens come in and out under the rotted-out backend, I never knew what they did in there all I know is I would have rather been out in the open then in that stinkin 4 holer. But dem days are past and we gotta be creative a little as we go.....pardon the pun. (well, I think up stuff while I'm sittin) In your part of Texas you can perhaps get away with a shallow gravel-filled hole for gray water and might even p there occasionally, but you might find it a "wee" bit better to flush now and again with at least a little gray water. Gray water from a wash house, sink or.....A friend of mine back in the late 70s built his house and plumbed in a reservoir for gray water (clothes washer, bath and sink water) and he plumbed it for flushin....Werked great! You'll find to, where the deer and antelope play they don't have a specific place they frequent when they go and their all over the place....sorta like shootin out bubbles ....or tryin to flip leaves.....write your name? But us humans usually pick a favorite spot either for the view or for reasons of down wind to pay our 'dews'. You know what you might do is put marks 2 ft on center 'round outside your shop and mark one with "GO" ...next time, start there and work your way around the place every time a different spot. That way you'll be less likely to need any diggin or even a sign for "no trespassin" You might use an old gas tank from a truck fill it with water first then perferate the underside, fill it with rocks... or better yet, "p" gravel, and bury it with a funnel tube in the fill hole. A natural spa for bacteria, enzymes and such.
Hope this helps...................................gotta go,
r
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jimbrown
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Re: budget sewer line for workshop
[re: MelonHead]
08/20/04 05:28 PM
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I'm with you I am out in the middle of nowhere Arizona and I pee where and when I want. The average well around here is 400ft it would take a lot of pea to soak that deep It has rained about 2 in in the last 3 weeks and the ground is still only damp down about 3 inchs after that is totally dry.
I have an out door shower that I run to a grey water trench. I dug it about 24 in deep and 30 feet long and filled with big rocks. It works and is perfectly legal. In fact the county actually encourages the use of grey water from shower and washing machines. If I were you I would not hesitate to dig a hole and fill it with rock or gravel and use it as you want.
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Re: budget sewer line for workshop
[re: MelonHead]
08/25/04 09:13 AM
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I'd like to install a sink and a urinal in my workshop. It's too far from the septic tank and putting in a new septic system would be cost prohibitive.
MelonHead,
I have no idea where you're located and that may have a bearing on how you can solve your problem. I have seen septic systems built using a 55-gallon drum for the "tank" that worked with no problem for many years, but it was at a "camp" that didn't have a lot of continuous daily use. This was done in a remote location where there was no inspection required or available. The guys just did what they thought would work best to keep their area clean. The drums are buried vertically. At the entrance side of the barrel cut a hole to allow 4" PVC to enter, with the top edge of the hole about 1" below the rim of the drum. On the opposite side of the barrel cut the exit hole a little lower, so that the top of the exit hole aligns with the bottom of the entrance hole. Neoprene (?) seals are available that will go into the hole and seal around the PVC where it enters. If you think your system will require a larger pit you can dig the hole larger and add a second drum in tandem. The solids will decompose in the drums and add fill line for the run-off. There's not a lot of dollars tied up in a system like that if you do it yourself...
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JazzDad
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Re: budget sewer line for workshop
[re: MelonHead]
08/26/04 04:42 PM
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Re: it is now OK to discharge gray water on top of the ground...
IF that water does not have any human waste in it. If the wash had a dirty diaper in it, that water can't go on the top of the ground. Also, the water can't pool on the surface, and suds can't remain on the surface. So, if you drink a lot of beer- no, I won't even start up that road! 
This varies from state to state.
All kids are gifted; some just open their packages earlier than others.-Michael Carr
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lynxpilot
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Re: budget sewer line for workshop
[re: MelonHead]
10/14/04 05:07 PM
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I rather like the sink idea. The biggest reason being what was mentioned about resale. Now what you do with your sink is your own business. I just wouldn't recommend filling it with water for rinsing your razor when you shave if it has served your original purpose.
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