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BrianP
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Another Barn Question - Floors & horsies
03/24/03 07:35 AM
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Hello again all.
So I have been planning out my barn project. I'll probably use the Canada Plans gambrel roof barn. I believe I can have the gambrel trusses built at a truss place, which should save time.
But this question is about floors: This is going to be a small, multiuse barn. A proper foundation (below the frostline) or a slab will cost me about the same. If I make a slab, I get the floor 'for free' if I pour a 4" concrete floor (for the foundation) it will cost me an additional 50%.
So for so good. But I read somewhat that a horse barn should have clay floors, elsewhere I read paving stones, somewhere else rough (brushed?) concrete.
What say yee? I don't have any horses, but I think the barn should be designed just in case ....
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GERARD
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Re: Another Barn Question - Floors & horsies
[re: BrianP]
03/24/03 08:14 AM
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ok - here's the thing - bare concrete is too hard and slippery for a horse, shod or not. BUT if you use a soft surface (clay, stone dust, etc) you will have constant maintenance when they paw, dig, even turn. If I were building from scratch I'd go with concrete and plan on putting down rubber mats. Use 3/4 inch interlock for th stalls. Once in you have a cushioned monolithic floor that makes doing stalls easy. For the aisle you can use the same or go a little cheaper with a thinner (1/2 inch) roll out rubber matting. Anywhere the concrete is exposed to where the horse is going to walk use a broomed finish, not glass smooth OR just make sure your rubber is wall to wall.
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BrianP
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Re: Another Barn Question - Floors & horsies
[re: GERARD]
03/24/03 08:19 AM
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I guess the slipperyness is the problem - must come with hooves.
Is this rubber material expensive? I'd like to think not because most farm related things aren't
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Benson
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Re: Another Barn Question - Floors & horsies
[re: BrianP]
03/24/03 12:50 PM
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Here's my opinion on horse flooring. I built my own stable 2 years ago and I'm always weighing the pros and cons of everything relating to stable design and construction.
Concrete: Okay in the aisleway, not in the stalls. Even with a 3/4" mat the floor will be too hard for the horses unless you use a ton of shavings. Concrete in the aisleway should not be too smooth, but a heavy broom finish will be difficult to sweep. The concrete guys I used said they just "smacked it down once" and that provides a good finish for livestock. We've had not a single problem with shod or unshod horses.
Stall floors: We removed all the top soil from our building site prior to construction, put in a foot of bank run gravel, then 6" concrete in the ailse and 6" stone dust in the stalls. We then put 3/4" mats in the stalls. The stone dust is easy to level and compact, stays level for many years, provides some drainage, and has some give where concrete has none. I've also seen some pretty expensive barns go with the stone dust and mats throughout the barn. This is really a pretty cost effective approach if you're building a pole barn.
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GERARD
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Re: Another Barn Question - Floors & horsies
[re: Benson]
03/24/03 02:03 PM
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The mats are around $45 for a 3ft x 5ft section. Interlock's MAY be a little more, I can't remember, Not really cheap but well worth the expense. I'll respectfully disagree a little with the last post but I guess it does depend on how much you bed. I would rather go through the added expense of using 1/2 rubber under the 3/4 if I was concerned the concrete under the rubber was too hard. I have stonedust now under my mats that I compacted with a plate tamper and I'm still getting some settling and will have to "touch up" this summer. Horses put a tremendous amount of weight per sq inch down and over time with a compacted stone dust base you'll get movement. (I just came back from Cornell where our horse was for a short time and they have rubber over concrete. This is a vet college so I assume they know what they're doing though I admit I don't know if it's just 3/4 rubber or if they put some more under it). Just looking to do the job once and do it right. And GO WITH THE INTERLOCKS. If you save a few bucks and get the striaght edges bedding WILL eventually work its way under them, they will bunch up and you will be "tweaking" things again. With the interlocks that's not a problem. If hardness is that much of a concern you also have the option of using blacktop under the stalls. Better than stonedust but still softer than concrete. Also has the added benefit of urine being able to seep through rather than puddle. 
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egon
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Re: Another Barn Question - Floors & horsies
[re: Benson]
03/24/03 03:16 PM
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Remember way back to the barn on the farm where I grew up. The floors were concrete with a gutter along each side where the stalls were. The stalls were concrete sloped towards the gutter. 3 in. thick planks were then placed on the stall floor. These were not closed in stalls. The horses were tied to the manger which was filed with hay from the loft holes.
Egon
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EJB
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Re: Another Barn Question - Floors & horsies
[re: Benson]
03/24/03 04:23 PM
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>>Concrete: Okay in the aisleway, not in the stalls.
Well I am glad someone asked the question again...I haven't built a "real" barn yet, but I converted an existing metal building/gravel floor into stalls for my goats and donkeys...but when I do get around to building a better barn I had planeed on going with cemet...I understand how cemet can be real hard on the horses, so mats would probably be a good idea,...but why do so many people recommend a dirt floor? Seems to me it would be impossible to truly clean it and to have years and years of urine soaking into the ground inside I imagine it is going to get really nasty after a bit? No?
What I have been doing is cleaning out the shavings and straw as best I can and mixing in a layer of limestone to reduce the odor, but I am worried about how bad it is going to get with the heat of the summer?
So if you have a dirt floor, how do you go about cleaning the stalls real well? Can't really hose them down? 
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cowboydoc
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Re: Another Barn Question - Floors & horsies
[re: GERARD]
03/24/03 04:29 PM
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Everybody is really right here. Personally I would never use concrete as it is way too hard. There have been studies on this. If you are only occassionally stalling a horse it isn't a problem. But a horse that is stalled everyday it will lead to problems unless you use one heck of alot of bedding.
The interlocks are good no doubt but very expensive. I don't use them but if money was no object I probably would. You can get 3/4 stall mats that fit togehter nice with minimal upkeep for $30 a piece. I also agree with the footing material here and that is what I would do if I was building a stall. All of my horses are either performance or broodmares. It is extremely important that they have good legs. Standing on concrete will break their legs down faster than standing on dirt or fines. The colleges do it because it's the fastest and cleanest way to do it. If you asked a good college vet what's the best thing for the horses concrete or fines (dirt) I bet most would say concrete is harder on them.
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cowboydoc
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Re: Another Barn Question - Floors & horsies
[re: EJB]
03/24/03 04:49 PM
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This is what bedding is for and consistent cleaning of stalls. Even if you had concrete you would have to build drains into each stall to clean them. Some people will build the drains into the mat system as well. It's really not needed if you clean the stalls regularly and use straw or sawdust.
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weedsportpete
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Re: Another Barn Question - Floors & horsies
[re: BrianP]
03/26/03 06:59 AM
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If you live in swamp city like I do , then drainage becomes the highest priority. I'd put a drain in every stall and run it out under the floor. I wish we could have done that.
We have an inch or two of crush run gravel over the dirt, topped by an inch of stone dust, all covered with rubber mats.
I've only found one place that will cut rubber mats to order; everywhere else we found standard sizes, with 4' x 6' the most popular. I recommend that you make the stall sizes fit a multiple of the mat size, instead of having to cut your mats to fit (if you use them). 12' x 12' would be a good size.
Other things about stalls, from my 1 years of experience  - covering exposed wood edges with metal trim. We went cheap and used the metal edging made for sheet-rock corners.. Anyone had experience with that?
As for the aisle.. smooth is better.. especially for sweeping! I can't believe all the dust and hair we are sweeping up in the last few days with the mud outside and winter coats shedding.
And I would make it as wide as you can, as long as you can stand in the middle (holding a horse) and can reach to either side to grab a cross tie.
Other stuff.. would be great to have an electrical outlet by every stall for things like box fans and heated water buckets..
If this is the time to pour concrete, then you might want to think about a washrack. If you get serious about horses, its great to have a place to wash them. A concrete-floored wash room, with a good drain, is a nice-to-have thing (hope we can get one next year). Make room for your water line coming in. And you can use it to wash other things, like your tractor..
I recommend several books on horsekeeping & stables by Cherry Hill.
Pete
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GERARD
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Re: Another Barn Question - Floors & horsies
[re: weedsportpete]
03/26/03 10:41 AM
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Other things about stalls, from my 1 years of experience - covering exposed wood edges with metal trim. We went cheap and used the metal edging made for sheet-rock corners.. Anyone had experience with that?
Tried it with poor success. Horses chewed it up like it was paper!!! Replaced area's that needed protecting with 1 1/2 inch angle iron. Little overkill probably but you only have to do it once.
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Benson
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Re: Another Barn Question - Floors & horsies
[re: weedsportpete]
03/26/03 01:31 PM
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>>We have an inch or two of crush run gravel over the dirt, topped by an inch of stone dust, all covered with rubber mats.
There’s your problem right there. You need to remove all that topsoil (especially if swampy) and replace with gravel. Do this and make sure you floor is at about 6” above grade and you should have no problem. We had to strip over a foot of topsoil off or site. It wasn’t too bad as far as cost goes, topsoil is worth a lot more than bankrun gravel in our area.
>>I've only found one place that will cut rubber mats to order; everywhere else we found standard sizes, with 4' x 6' the most popular. I recommend that you make the stall sizes fit a multiple of the mat size, instead of having to cut your mats to fit (if you use them). 12' x 12' would be a good size.
Circular saw works. Not extremely well, but it works. You’ll never cut wood with that blade again, so use a cheapy.
>>Other things about stalls, from my 1 years of experience - covering exposed wood edges with metal trim. We went cheap and used the metal edging made for sheet-rock corners.. Anyone had experience with that?
They sell heavy gauge galvanized corner protector that are pre-drilled for screws. I’ll try to find them and post a link later. We bought these and they’ve worked perfectly.
>>As for the aisle.. smooth is better.. especially for sweeping! I can't believe all the dust and hair we are sweeping up in the last few days with the mud outside and winter coats shedding.
Not too smooth or it will be slippery when wet. Something a little less than a broom finish would suffice. I’ve found that sprinkling/misting the concrete ailseway with the hose after watering cuts down on the dust about 99%.
>>And I would make it as wide as you can, as long as you can stand in the middle (holding a horse) and can reach to either side to grab a cross tie.
We went with 10’ and have been happy with that. It’s almost too wide, but if I had to do it again I probably wouldn’t go smaller.
>>Other stuff.. would be great to have an electrical outlet by every stall for things like box fans and heated water buckets..
Yes. We did that for the fans and use them all summer. Of course it added significantly to our electrical bill.
Just my $.02.
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cowboydoc
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Re: Another Barn Question - Floors & horsies
[re: weedsportpete]
03/27/03 08:21 AM
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I would very highly recommend not doing a smooth finish if you are going to have horses. Not only is it slick for people but it's extremely slick for horses, esp. if they shoes on.
As long as you keep plenty of sawdust in your stalls you won't need drainage. The reason people need drainage is because they don't properly fill their stalls with enough sawdust, etc. You need 4-6" of sawdust. Stalls should be picked out twice a day. Not only is it a bad idea from the drainage aspect but it's also dangerous to keep horses in confined areas with the ammonia and other smells that come from not using enough sawdust to keep from draining urine under the mats.
I also agree with Gerard. Don't use the drywall corners. They won't hold up if you get a cribber or wood chewer in. They will tear it up. I know one horse that got his tongue severed in half and another that they had to sew his lower lip back on from cuts from drywall edges. You need the thick stuff that they can't tear up.
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SteveB
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Re: Another Barn Question - Floors & horsies
[re: cowboydoc]
03/27/03 09:40 AM
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>>The reason people need drainage is because they don't properly fill their stalls with enough sawdust, etc. You need 4-6" of sawdust. Stalls should be picked out twice a day.
I agree 100% with this. Maybe clean once a day if your horse is out most of the day.
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wingnut
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Re: Another Barn Question - Floors & horsies
[re: SteveB]
03/27/03 12:25 PM
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just an fyi ... the flyer I got last nite from Tractor Supply shows they're having a doorbuster sale on Sat morning for the stall mats .... $30 ... cheapest I've seen them (here) yet.
pete
it's a shame that common sense isn't
http://www.dahlhausminiatures.com
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Re: Another Barn Question - Floors & horsies
[re: BrianP]
03/27/03 02:52 PM
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My neck of the woods, everyone I talk to says dirt floor. Definately not concrete. So, that is what we are going to go with.
Ken H.
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Benson
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Re: Another Barn Question - Floors & horsies
[re: weedsportpete]
05/21/03 11:20 AM
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I finally found the link for the corner edge protectors. I think we got the 1.5" or 2" wide protectors, I'll check later.
Post Edge - Models 1-96, 3-96 & 4-96
Pre-drilled, post edging prevents horses from chewing edges of posts in stall interior. Size: 3/4", 1 1/4" & 2" x 96" long - includes fasteners. Shipping Wt.: 2-6 lbs
Edge Protector
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LazyJ_Arabians
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Re: Another Barn Question - Floors & horsies
[re: Benson]
05/21/03 02:15 PM
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I've never owned a true cribber but for foals I've cut strips of the clear plastic carpet runner and glued them to problem areas. Glue the smooth side and leave the little spikey gripper things sticking outward. Cheap, temporary solution. I've even wrapped my wheelbarrow handles with the stuff in response to one mischievous colt, he'd wait till I had it about full with manure then sneak over, grab a handle, and flip it.
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SteveB
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It looks like we have the 1.5" edge protectors. Here's a picture.
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yellowhorse
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Re: Another Barn Question - Floors & horsies
[re: BrianP]
05/31/03 10:53 AM
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Hi, I'm new here but have had horss for about 20 years. I've never had the opportunity to build my dream barn, the barn was always there when I moved in. I have had one with rough concrete with mats over it, it was ok but you really have to make sure the mats fit otherwise the shaving get under the mats and they move around. One place had asphalt with mats and shaving, that seemd a little softer on the legs. My place now has dirt floors and sawdust, I get the sawdust from a mill, it's pretty cheap, just make sure it's pine and not walnut as the walnut is toxic. I have to relevel the dirt floors a couple times a year. the footing is gravel with dirt on top. I use stone dust to fill in the holes from pawing. One solution I found is don't let the horses in the barn, lol. they have a shed in the turnout, it has a dirt floor. Luckily whoever put the shed in has it in a good spot for drainage. They also have trees out there for shelter. I only use the stalls for feeding them and if they need to be confined for any reason which is almost never. If the weather is very bad I will put them in for a few hours. so for my use the dirt floor and sawdust works well. I have a rough concrete aisle, grooming area and wash stall.
linda
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weedsportpete
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Re: Another Barn Question - Floors & horsies
[re: yellowhorse]
06/02/03 07:04 AM
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Welcome to the extended family..
We have a concrete aisle; we put a few stall mats down the center, and the when cross-tied, the horses tend to shift to one side or the other, to get their feet off the rubber..
Pete
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Re: Another Barn Question - Floors & horsies
[re: GERARD]
09/09/05 08:22 PM
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Just wondering where you find the interlock stall mats? Can i find them online?
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mfaley
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Re: Another Barn Question - Floors & horsies
[re: Haileyshome]
09/14/05 06:36 PM
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I think I know what my favorite barn set up would be but I just can’t afford it. There are a couple of large facilities in our area and they all use the same thing for a floor.
They start with a good compacted road base, then added decomposed granite which is compacted. On top of that they put rubber bricks that are dog bone shaped. This makes them interlocking yet still with some cushion. On top of that they set the stall mats and then dropped the free standing stalls on top of the mats so they were held down.
Admittedly these are pretty pricey set ups but I sort of like the idea of those interlocking rubber bricks. I also know that they tend to bed very deep and clean 2-3 times a day which is pretty nice. Heck…..given the chance I would move in.
The other thing to consider is that these are performance horses which are being ridden 5-6 days a week and some of those will be on cows which adds to the bumps and bruises. If your horses don’t get ridden that much, don’t lie down a lot and have access to a turn out daily then maybe the stall does not need so much attention.
We have our mats over road base and DG with no problems. I guess my next step would be to have interlocking mats like http://www.diamond-safety.com/Stall%20Mats.html.
Richard,
How are the kids getting along with the barrel racing?
Regards,
Mark
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cowboydoc
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Re: Another Barn Question - Floors & horsies
[re: mfaley]
09/22/05 10:25 AM
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Mark,
Thanks for asking. We have another world champion in the family now. My youngest won the world championship at the National Little Britches Rodeo in Pueblo, CO. Mesa continues with her winning. She recently won the Midwest Rodeo Finals. At the finals she won all three go rounds and the overall championship. This was against adults. She was the only person under 18 that qualified. I'm pretty proud of them.
Richard
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mfaley
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Re: Another Barn Question - Floors & horsies
[re: cowboydoc]
09/22/05 01:54 PM
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Well thats just great! Good for them.
I can't imagine too many things, that involve horses, that are bad for a kid.
To me, one of the cutest things in the world, is an honest horse that packs some little kid around. All the while there is this little flea of a kid sittin' up there spurrin' the saddle pad.
Congratulations,
Mark
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